279 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

ScriptBabe wrote...

They are not stupid. They are amazingly creative, and I was a BioWare Girl. Dragon Age 2 shook my faith because it was clearly rushed and the story was very weak and structured badly. There is a big review on my blog. Then I hit ME3 and I began to worry the company had really lost it's way. I'm reserving judgment on all the upcoming games until I hear feedback from the fans. As for ME4 -- I just think it's going to be very hard to get people to come back to the Mass Effect universe if it's all new characters and a different time especially since folks are going to be inclined to be suspicious.

I know my big question for the next Mass Effect is:

"Why should I invest myself in another character and another story after what happened in Mass Effect 3?"

I wonder what kind of answer Bioware will have for that?

[JPN17]

Liamv2 wrote...

The ending being sad is not the problem with the ending.

So much this. Amazing how many pro enders still make this argument.

[AlanC9]

JPN17 wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

The ending being sad is not the problem with the ending.

So much this. Amazing how many pro enders still make this argument.

It's not that surprising, since so many of the proposed ending fixes just happen to make things happer.

Yeah, that's just a total coincidence, but people get the wrong idea.

[Azaron Nightblade]

LolaVega wrote...

I have a love hate relationship with the ending. I like the idea and concept, but I feel that the execution was, perhaps, lacking? I just think it needed some more clarification in certain areas. I love it because I love the series in general, and I hate it just because it sort of signalled the end of the trilogy - as in no more Shepard rather than whether the ending was bad/good.

Agreed.
A few changes I would've liked for the endings would've been;

Destroy: If Shepard is meant to survive it with a high EMS anyway, go all the way with it instead of the three seconds single breath scene.
Have him found on the Citadel and rushed onto a med-evac with some epic music score playing while the medics work on him frantically, and have his crew visiting him in medbay afterwards or something similar to that.

Control: I don't think there is anything I would've changed about the Control ending that the EC didn't already get right.
As far as the endings are concerned it was executed best IMO.

Synthesis: I can't say much in regard to that one since IMO it's the kind of ending that's final.
It's an ending I would've never chosen if I had any intentions of making future sequels - so I guess it's fine if that's actually what they intend to do.
Otherwise I see them just discarding it and making one of the other endings canon for future games if they choose to go forward instead of going the prequel route or having the new ME game in the same timeline.


Since it's related, also have the EMS have a more visible impact than it did - possibly with more different degrees in there rather than suck/win.
All around make the endings more epic in feel, it is after all the end of a trilogy - one that spanned five years and in which tons of people have sunk hundreds of hours of playtime.

Modifié par Azaron Nightblade, 26 septembre 2013 - 01:45 .

[radishson]

AlanC9 wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

The ending being sad is not the problem with the ending.

So much this. Amazing how many pro enders still make this argument.

It's not that surprising, since so many of the proposed ending fixes just happen to make things happer.

Yeah, that's just a total coincidence, but people get the wrong idea.

+1.  I don't think unhappy endings are inherently more poignant or effective than happy ones, but you can't deny the vast majority of complainers who headcanon synthetic life surviving Destroy while Shepard goes on to have lavish beach vacations with the LI for the rest of eternity.

Modifié par radishson, 26 septembre 2013 - 01:55 .

[Iakus]

radishson wrote...

+1.  I don't think unhappy endings are inherently more poignant or effective than happy ones, but you can't deny the vast majority of complainers who headcanon synthetic life surviving Destroy while Shepard goes on to have lavish beach vacations with the LI for the rest of eternity.

Is it somehow wrong to think that they laid the tragedy on too thick in the end?

There's a difference between "no right choice" and "no good choice"

And this is coming from someone who'd happily render the relays permanently nonfunctional if it ment saving the synthetics.

[Nole]

iakus wrote...

ScriptBabe wrote...

They are not stupid. They are amazingly creative, and I was a BioWare Girl. Dragon Age 2 shook my faith because it was clearly rushed and the story was very weak and structured badly. There is a big review on my blog. Then I hit ME3 and I began to worry the company had really lost it's way. I'm reserving judgment on all the upcoming games until I hear feedback from the fans. As for ME4 -- I just think it's going to be very hard to get people to come back to the Mass Effect universe if it's all new characters and a different time especially since folks are going to be inclined to be suspicious.

I know my big question for the next Mass Effect is:

"Why should I invest myself in another character and another story after what happened in Mass Effect 3?"

I wonder what kind of answer Bioware will have for that?

"Don't buy the game".

[o Ventus]

radishson wrote...

+1.  I don't think unhappy endings are inherently more poignant or effective than happy ones, but you can't deny the vast majority of complainers who headcanon synthetic life surviving Destroy while Shepard goes on to have lavish beach vacations with the LI for the rest of eternity.  I can't take self-indulgence like that seriously.

I guess it's a good thing that ideas like the ones you proposed don't actually get suggested.

Then again (generalizing here), you seem to be one of those people who equates "happy ending" (even though Shepard surviving any variant of the endings is inherently bittersweet and not wholly happy) with rainbows and unicorns.

I have literally never seen a single ending suggestion since March of 2012 that involved Shepard living and going off on his or her merry way with the LI. Almost every single suggestion I've seen, on the other hand, involves some semblance of realism in how the events of the game(s) affect Shepard in a negative way.

Of course, I also make it a point not to have a selective memory.

[Br3admax]

MEHEM comes pretty close though.

[radishson]

iakus wrote...

radishson wrote...

+1.  I don't think unhappy endings are inherently more poignant or effective than happy ones, but you can't deny the vast majority of complainers who headcanon synthetic life surviving Destroy while Shepard goes on to have lavish beach vacations with the LI for the rest of eternity.

Is it somehow wrong to think that they laid the tragedy on too thick in the end?

There's a difference between "no right choice" and "no good choice"

And this is coming from someone who'd happily render the relays permanently nonfunctional if it ment saving the synthetics.

I didn't find anything tragic about the endings.  From the perspective of a renegade player, extreme sacrifice was something I saw Shepard dealing with the entire series.  I was actually surprised Destroy's cost wasn't higher.  "tragedy" is more subjective than you'd think.

[Iakus]

radishson wrote...

I didn't find anything tragic about the endings.  From the perspective of a renegade player, extreme sacrifice was something I saw Shepard dealing with the entire series.  I was actually surprised Destroy's cost wasn't higher.  "tragedy" is more subjective than you'd think.

So is happiness

[Iakus]

Br3ad wrote...

MEHEM comes pretty close though.

MEHEM shows Shepard clearly alive, and removes the death of all synthetic life.  Everything else is the same as High EMS Destroy, down to using Hackett's ending speech.

And there isn't a smiling face to be seen at the memorial.

[radishson]

o Ventus wrote...

I guess it's a good thing that ideas like the ones you proposed don't actually get suggested.

Then again (generalizing here), you seem to be one of those people who equates "happy ending" (even though Shepard surviving any variant of the endings is inherently bittersweet and not wholly happy) with rainbows and unicorns.

I have literally never seen a single ending suggestion since March of 2012 that involved Shepard living and going off on his or her merry way with the LI. Almost every single suggestion I've seen, on the other hand, involves some semblance of realism in how the events of the game(s) affect Shepard in a negative way.

Of course, I also make it a point not to have a selective memory.

That description of a happy ending was not my invention.  I'm not sure why the idea of two people having different experiences is so foreign to you, because contrary to your statement I've yet to friend a single fan on a first-name basis who did not already headcanon what I outlined.  I don't frequent BSN, and though it tends to be slightly less common here it's still incredibly prevalent.

Like everyone else, I don't think the ending was well-executed.  There are legitimate reasons to criticize it, all of which have been discussed ad nauseum for over a year now.  But I can guarantee if a non-genocidal option was available, or at the very least an option that explicitly confirmed Shepard's survival, hardly a fraction of this vitriol would've ever existed.  that's the point here.

[Br3admax]

"Pretty close" being the key phrase there.

[o Ventus]

radishson wrote...

That description of a happy ending was not my invention.

You're right there. It isn't yours. You did inherit it from someone else, though.

I'm not sure why the idea of two people having different experiences is so foreign to you

It's not. It's just that what you're describing doesn't actually happen.

because contrary to your statement I've yet to friend a single fan on a first-name basis who did not already headcanon what I outlined.

 

If the only evidence you have is anecdotal, then it isn't really evidence.

I don't frequent BSN

And I do. Probably significantly more than most others (I've spent at least 90 minutes on this site almost every single day since August 2011, across 2 accounts). That's how I know your statements are full of sh*t. Like I said, I DON'T color what I read based on preconceptions.

[radishson]

o Ventus wrote...

You're right there. It isn't yours. You did inherit it from someone else, though.

... uh, yeah, I know.  that's literally what my last post said.

o Ventus wrote...

It's not. It's just that what you're describing doesn't actually happen.

Again, you have trouble understanding that your exposure to the fandom through one specific board is far from an unbiased, complete comprehension of the fandom at large.

o Ventus wrote...

And I do. Probably significantly more than most others (I've spent at least 90 minutes on this site almost every single day since August 2011, across 2 accounts). That's how I know your statements are full of sh*t. Like I said, I DON'T color what I read based on preconceptions.

I... don't know why you're proud of that, or saw it relevant to mention.  BSN is no more or less legitimate than any other ME fan congregation, of which there are many.  Now you're implying the opinions on this forum alone are the only ones worth considering, and that's just silly.

o Ventus wrote...

If the only evidence you have is anecdotal, then it isn't really evidence.

So is yours.  Unless "I go on this forum, like, every day!" counts now.

[Tron Mega]

whatever you say about, there should have been more endings to ME3.

at the very least so i could forget about the ones already in place.

arent there games out there that arent even RPGs that do a better job of giving you the ending you deserve, like bioshock, and dishonoured, or fallout.

get your **** together bioware.

Modifié par Tron Mega, 26 septembre 2013 - 03:32 .

[ShadowLordXII]

The fact that we don't have a Happy Ending wasn't the worst of it's problems, at least for me. There are plenty of worst reasons to disown the ending to ME3.

I kind of knew going in that the best that the series could have would be a Bittersweet Ending with emphasis on sweet rather then bitter. The reapers are destroyed and the galaxy is saved; but billions are dead, civilization is in ruins and a lot of heroes gave their lives possibly including Shepard. But the dead would be remembered and honored; the galaxy would heal and rebuild; and the future would be go upon a path undetermined by forces of malice and destruction like the Reapers.

The problem with this ending is that it railroads us towards four different downer endings with ethically damning repercussions and three of them have a heavy potential for leaving the galaxy in a worst state then it was in before. Then it whitewashes these choices to present them as the better options by sabotaging what should be the best choice (Destroy) with a lazy last minute repercussion added onto it and having Shepard survive against all logical sense and reasoning.

If I had to have a downer ending, it could have at least been consistent with the lore and didn't try to talk down to players and treat us like idiots or create giant plot holes large enough for Sovereign to fly through. It should have made us cry and solve the central conflict then end. No need to rip off Deus Ex.

[StarcloudSWG]

AndyAK79 wrote...

 I loved the ending to Mass Effect 3, but it's clear that a lot of people didn't. In spite of my own feelings  I have to admit that some of their issues hold some weight (some of the arguments about believability are reasonably strong).

Many of the arguments, however, are entirely ridiculous (The word 'invalid' has been horribly misused many, many times), and no argument is quite as ridiculous as claims that players were somehow entitled to a happy ending. In fact, a happy ending would have completely ruined the game. Here are the four main reasons:

[lot of stuff cut]

I would have loved a 'happy' ending, which doesn't exactly ahve to be all sunshine and roses. Just let the hero and his or her love interest limp off into the sunset. That would have been enough.

But most importantly, what Mass Effect 3 needed was an *emotionally satisfying* ending. And it DIDN'T get that. The reason MEHEM is popular isn't because of the cutscene slides. It's because it ends the game at the natural point it SHOULD have ended, with Shepard and Anderson looking out at the earth while the Crucible fires and wipes the Reapers out. 

[AndyAK79]

Arguments based around the idea that ME3 COULD have a happy ending are absurd.

It COULD have an ending were Shepard slips on a pink tutu and teaches the Reapers to love through the medium of dance, but it doesn't (Although if anyone wants to create a mod called MESSOAPTATTRTLTTMODM, I'm game). There is an infinite amount of possible endings but you've got what you've got.

Bioware can't write an ending that's going to satisfy everyone (and, for those arguing for a happy ending, do you really think the ending in YOUR head would have made everyone happy? Would nobody be unsatisfied if YOU wrote the ending?). They can only write an ending that's true to themselves and their creative vision. And I believe (and I'm willing to admit there are other valid viewpoints) that if you analyse those endings on their own merits, rather than comparing them to some theoretical ideal that exists only in your mind, those endings are powerful and satisfying.

Furthermore, I would like to point out that those endings, even if I they weren't the one's I would have written, were much enjoyed by myself and many others, and we are as much entitled to enjoy Mass Effect as you are. If you had got your way, we may well be having the same discussion from opposite sides.

I'm not saying my needs are more important than yours, just that we are all equal as fans, and that being the case Bioware have a right to their artistic integrity and can't favour your ideas just because you really want them to.

P.S. I have never, to my knowledge, mentioned sunshine, bunnies, unicorns or rainbows. I may have mentioned billions of people not ending up dead, because this has actually been suggested other forums. I acknowledge that there are many degrees of happy ending.

Modifié par AndyAK79, 26 septembre 2013 - 08:25 .

[Ieldra]

JPN17 wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...
The ending being sad is not the problem with the ending.

So much this. Amazing how many pro enders still make this argument.

It appears valid, considering that so many people find MEHEM an acceptable substitute.

[KaiserShep]

AndyAK79 wrote...

Arguments based around the idea that ME3 COULD have a happy ending are absurd.

Do you see the irony in insisting that the possibility of an ending in which the protagonist, and many of the protagonist's primary companions come out OK is absurd, while the actual plot involves a giant mysterio device that promises to end the conflict across the entire galaxy somehow? 

Bioware can't write an ending that's going to satisfy everyone (and, for those arguing for a happy ending, do you really think the ending in YOUR head would have made everyone happy? Would nobody be unsatisfied if YOU wrote the ending?). They can only write an ending that's true to themselves and their creative vision. And I believe (and I'm willing to admit there are other valid viewpoints) that if you analyse those endings on their own merits, rather than comparing them to some theoretical ideal that exists only in your mind, those endings are powerful and satisfying.

The problem I see here is that you are confusing a "happy ending" with an ending that would satisfy everyone. A happy ending, by definition, is a resolution to the plot that typically involves the fate of the protagonist, at least some of the protagonist's primary companions or allies as well as the story's universe itself turning out for the best despite the ordeal. Whether or not that outcome actually makes you happy specifically doesn't affect whether or not the ending itself is defined as such.

I've analyzed the endings on their own merits, and I wouldn't really agree that they are particularly powerful or satisfying. If that's the effect the ending had on you, then that's fine, but I wouldn't say that this is something one should see on an objective level. The word I'd probably use before either of those would be anticlimactic. This is because there's no release of dramatic tension leading to the conclusion. Granted, I am not displeased with most of the actual results of high EMS destroy, since the MEU is largely restored in the parts I care about the most. But where it falls flat is its acute lack of catharsis. The series puts a great deal of stock in the player's ability to invest in the protagonist's attachment to the various characters. This is something the writers miscalculated when they assembled the final mission, and the story's epilogue. At the very least, however, the memorial scene does restore some of this, with the tease to hint to us that Shepard is actually alive, though it is a bit awkwardly done.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 26 septembre 2013 - 09:17 .

[Ridwan]

Some of you lot need to play some Duke Nukem 3D to remind yourself what kicking alien ass is like.

[Liamv2]

JPN17 wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

The ending being sad is not the problem with the ending.

So much this. Amazing how many pro enders still make this argument.

Thing is i actually sort of like the ending however i know that those who don't like it don't hate it because it is sad.