82 réponses à ce sujet

[wcholcombe]

I find it funny that everyone considers Meredith to have been this horrible contemptible person because she has a hatred of mages that comes from a early childhood experience, while Orsino is simply considered a tragic pawn, even though he supported a mage he knew and supported his secret blood magic research- which he was familiar enough with to use that research to turn himself into a harvester.

Meredith was driven over the edge by red lyrium-- Orsino was driven over the edge by either his failure to protect the mages if you side with him....or he just reaches his limit if you side with Meredith I guess, as he kills his own mages to become a harvester.

They are both the polar ends of the spectrum, if you can see the motives of one, you should be able to see the motives of the other.

On Meredith:
An orphaned native of Kirkwall, Meredith rose in the ranks of the
Templar Order and became an accomplished warrior. In 9:21, when Viscount
Perrin Threnhold
attempted to oust the domineering Templars from the city, Meredith
retaliated after the hanging of Knight-Commander Guylian, ending with
the arrest of Viscount Threnhold. Grand Cleric Elthina
then promoted her to lead the Order and she has governed with an iron
fist, though few doubt that her influence is reserved to the Templars as
it was at her behest that the current Viscount was appointed.
If you side with Meredith at the start of Act 3 and help the Templars during On The Loose, when you start the quest Best Served Cold,
you can question Meredith during dialogue and she will explain why she
has such a hatred for mages: When Meredith was younger, her sister Amelia
developed magical talents but her family decided to shield her from the
Chantry, knowing that she couldn't survive in the Circle or face their
rigorous tests. One day, Meredith's sister was possessed by a demon,
turned into an abomination and killed the rest of her family save for
Meredith, who survived. The Templars eventually slew her sister, but not
before the Abomination killed 70 villagers. This experience led to
Meredith's harsh view on magic and why she thinks mages must be treated
as people with a curse.
On Orsino:

You really never get any defense for Orsino's actions on protecting Quentin and supporting his research, other then that Meredith would use it to paint all mages with a wide brush.  However, by taking the actions he does, he plays right into the stereotype that Meredith fears.

Sorry, I just find it funny that BSN largely condemns Meredith and the templars, but in a world where Abominations and magic kill people regularly, think that mages and orsino are completley blameless.

Now me personally I would have taken the side of the Grand Cleric in this whole mess and made the other two soak there heads, but allas that wasn't an option.

[Dieb]

Wasn't it Orsino who gives you the quest to eliminate those blood magic using renegade mage groups?

Modifié par Baelrahn, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:06 .

[ianvillan]

I would say Meredith, Orsino and Grand Cleric Elthina were all terrible at there jobs and made things worse for everyone. Each has to take blame for what happened now you can argue how much blame each bares but that may never be agreed.

[Ferretinabun]

I think it's because being a steel-fisted tyrant was always kinda part of Meredith's character. It's totally who she is. The idol just pushed her further down a path she was treading anyway.

Orsino's transformation, on the other hand, was a completely contrived and nonsensical ass-pull that people would rather pretend never really happened. I know I would. It's easier to think of Orsino as a character that Bioware simply messed up rather than one whose actions made an ounce of sense.

Modifié par Ferretinabun, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:01 .

[The Elder King]

I condemn both Meredith and Orsino. They're not fit for the role they were given (in Orsino's case, not for the reasons Anders stated, which were completely false).
The portrayals of templars and mages in general was bad in DA2. I sided with the mages simply because they weren't involved with Anders. Anders was never a mage of the Kirkwall Circle, and the templars (for their inefficiency) Varric and Hawke (for protecting him) were more responsible for what happened in Act 3.

[ianvillan]

Ferretinabun wrote...

I think it's because being a steel-fisted tyrant was always kinda part of Meredith's character. It's totally who she is. The idol just pushed her further down a path she was treading anyway.

Orsino's transformation, on the other hand, was a completely contrived and nonsensical ass-pull that people would rather pretend never really happened. I know I would. It's easier to think of Orsino as a character that Bioware simply messed up rather than one whose actions made an ounce of sense.

I think giving orsino the idol would of been better for the story and explained his transformation.

[wcholcombe]

Ferretinabun wrote...

I think it's because being a steel-fisted tyrant was always kinda part of Meredith's character. It's totally who she is. The idol just pushed her further down a path she was treading anyway.

Orsino's transformation, on the other hand, was a completely contrived and nonsensical ass-pull that people would rather pretend never really happened. I know I would. It's easier to think of Orsino as a character that Bioware simply messed up rather than one whose actions made an ounce of sense.

Except he did protect the bloodmage who killed Hawke's mother.  Which makes him exactly the boggie man that Meredith wants to paint all mages as.

Personally the High Cleric should have replaced Meredith when she became so totalitarian, but my point here is that Orsino isn't innocent.

You can say the sudden Harvester thing at the end isn't well done, but he does have links to Quentin and did support and protect his research.

[Kalas Magnus]

meredith is da best

i loved her. supported her to the end.

she still turned on me. ;_;

[The Elder King]

Kalas Magnus wrote...

meredith is da best

i loved her. supported her to the end.

she still turned on me. ;_;

I'd say that finding that the First Enchanter you supported was helping the mage that killed your mother was worse.

[Kalas Magnus]

hhh89 wrote...

Kalas Magnus wrote...

meredith is da best

i loved her. supported her to the end.

she still turned on me. ;_;

I'd say that finding that the First Enchanter you supported was helping the mage that killed your mother was worse.

not for me.

[Navasha]

For me, Templars will ultimately be the responsible party. Most of the 'horrific' events perpetrated by mages are simply a response the abuse of the Templars.

When an abused dog turns and bites his abusive master... I cheer for the dog. I don't blame the dog one bit for his actions.

[I Like Cats And]

Both were boring poorly written characters

[VampireSoap]

You know something's wrong when you find out Orsino is still not emasculated after spending so many years being in the proximity of Meredith...

Modifié par VampireSoap, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:31 .

[leaguer of one]

I Like Cats And wrote...

Both were boring poorly written characters

No they weren't.

[myahele]

I honestly didn't know he supported the necromancer guy. I would think Hawke and Co. would make a scene. Instead Orsino mentions a name and then he transforms....ok.

I have to admit Hawke sure killed alot of people to the point they don't even remember

[OdanUrr]

Well, since everyone in Kirkwall seemed to be crazy to begin with...

[Vit246]

Both were wasted potential and poorly-written characters. Meredith was just another stereotype tyrant. But Orsino was even worse. The only reason for Orsino's random connection by letter to Quentin was to make him guilty by association and prejudice the player. And then to force a mandatory boss fight, in the form of a Harvester, for some reason. His protecting of Quentin was ridiculous, I think he would've rather tried killing him or reporting the Templars on him instead of risking lives, his reputation, and the Circle's. He's suppose to be protecting the Circle, especially from a blood mage that makes them look bad.

Modifié par Vit246, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:52 .

[AresKeith]

Those two had such sexual tension between each other

[Beerfish]

Orsinos actions at the end totally validate Meredith's earlier actions. I don't know if that was the plan in the beginning or if BioWare thought that just having Meredith go bonkers would tilt the conflict too much in against the Templars.

I also find it strange so many people blame Elthina for anything at all without coming out with a viable alternative for her action wise. she was caught between a rock and hard place and the the one person in the chantry that did take direct action (Petrice) is vilified up and down.

[leaguer of one]

The feature about the foundation of Meredith's and Orsino's is Paranoia. They both had strong fears of the other group. Meredith had fears of the mages going out of control and Orsino had fears of the Templar killing off the mages. This fear cause Orsino to hid blood mages,and Meredith went ans sensed that and put a tighter squeeze on her authority. The main problem is that Mages and templars were meant to work together. The paranioa both sides had just caused in fighting with there unneeded fear.If Orsino did his job and helped Meredith hunt down the bloodmages instead of hiding them none of this would of happened. Added that idol did push Meredith over the edge even more.
In short, they were both bad at there job.

[9TailsFox]

VampireSoap wrote...



You know something's wrong when you find out Orsino is still not emasculated after spending so many years being in the proximity of Meredith...

Vant this:O
https://encrypted-tb...CPrsFaXgePo_D5b

Modifié par 9TailsFox, 25 septembre 2013 - 04:51 .

[leaguer of one]

Vit246 wrote...

Both were wasted potential and poorly-written characters. Meredith was just another stereotype tyrant. But Orsino was even worse. The only reason for Orsino's random connection by letter to Quentin was to make him guilty by association and prejudice the player. And then to force a mandatory boss fight, in the form of a Harvester, for some reason. His protecting of Quentin was ridiculous, I think he would've rather tried killing him or reporting the Templars on him instead of risking lives, his reputation, and the Circle's.

There not badly written or wasted potential. The goal with the character was to show the worst of both sides. It was to show what would happen if the wrong people were inchage of there organizations. Meredith was not a stereotype tyrant, her concept to to keep order no matter what. And with Orsino, his actions and connections to Quentin if you side with the templars.

[OdanUrr]

leaguer of one wrote...

There not badly written or wasted potential. The goal with the character was to show the worst of both sides. It was to show what would happen if the wrong people were inchage of there organizations. Meredith was not a stereotype tyrant, her concept to to keep order no matter what. And with Orsino, his actions and connections to Quentin if you side with the templars.

I didn't like that bit, it felt forced, as if it were solely included for the purpose of telling the player you were also wrong to side with the mages. And don't get me started on Orsino's and Meredith's transformations. 

[Former_Fiend]

They were both horrible people in desperate need of a sword to the face.

[Neon Rising Winter]

The problem for me with Meredith was, in a mage supporting playthrough, you missed contextualising background information - or at least I did.

For much of the game she came across as authoritarian, quite harsh, but not insane. Then at the end of the game appears to just go nuts with only the fuzzily implied effects of red lyrium, and the trigger of the immediate events to justify it. Once you add in the fact she's carrying the memory of being a terrified, helpless child, it becomes a lot more understandable.

I would have preferred to get a lot more background history for both her and Orsino and have their stories give a personal reflection of the larger scale mage/templar friction.