82 réponses à ce sujet

[Red Panda]

Navasha wrote...

For me, Templars will ultimately be the responsible party. Most of the 'horrific' events perpetrated by mages are simply a response the abuse of the Templars.

When an abused dog turns and bites his abusive master... I cheer for the dog. I don't blame the dog one bit for his actions.

I don't.

Both wrongs are still wrong.

[ianvillan]

wcholcombe wrote...

ianvillan wrote...



I would also put the Chantry into the relationship and say that their dogma of mages being cursed and the cause of the darkspawn and loss of the maker is a major part of the Templars relationship to the mages.

People point to this, but read Asunder.  People don't fear mages and magic because the Chantry tells them to.  They fear mages and magic because their neighbors kid developed magical powers and burned down his whole farm, or the family across town had a kid develope magic and killed his whole family, or the village down the road had an apostate turn into an abomination and whipe out the entire town.

All but the last are direct comments made by villagers in Asunder about magic when they were about to kill a Templar to kill mages.

The last one is just referenced in the lore several times in both games and both collectors edition strategy guides.

Or did the kid burn down his whole farm because of fear, fear of peoples reaction to finding out and fear that he might be everything the chantry preaches he is.

[Kalas Magnus]

Navasha wrote...

For me, Templars will ultimately be the responsible party. Most of the 'horrific' events perpetrated by mages are simply a response the abuse of the Templars.

When an abused dog turns and bites his abusive master... I cheer for the dog. I don't blame the dog one bit for his actions.

and the only reason the templars are like that is because of tevinter. 

[The Six Path of Pain]

Meh, they both sucked to me. I hated how you had to fight both of them no matter what. It would have been better if the final boss was determined based on your allegiance. The Arishok is the best antagonist in the game.

[MadCat221]

Kalas Magnus wrote...

Navasha wrote...

For me, Templars will ultimately be the responsible party. Most of the 'horrific' events perpetrated by mages are simply a response the abuse of the Templars.

When an abused dog turns and bites his abusive master... I cheer for the dog. I don't blame the dog one bit for his actions.

and the only reason the templars are like that is because of tevinter. 

"Templars" are an organization.

"Mages" are not an organization.  "Circle of Magi" is.  "Tevinter mage-lords" is.  But "Mages" are not.

Templars are an organization that took its mission of "handle mages" to mean "oppress mages under the boot".  And what happens when some Templars try to hold true to the spirit of their organization's mission?  They get branded no true scotsmen, declared enthralled by blood magic, or some other exclusionary epithet for the Templars as an organization to label as one of them.  The organization is corrupt at its core and must be torn down.

Modifié par MadCat221, 25 septembre 2013 - 08:36 .

[wcholcombe]

leaguer of one wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

ianvillan wrote...



I would also put the Chantry into the relationship and say that their dogma of mages being cursed and the cause of the darkspawn and loss of the maker is a major part of the Templars relationship to the mages.

People point to this, but read Asunder.  People don't fear mages and magic because the Chantry tells them to.  They fear mages and magic because their neighbors kid developed magical powers and burned down his whole farm, or the family across town had a kid develope magic and killed his whole family, or the village down the road had an apostate turn into an abomination and whipe out the entire town.

All but the last are direct comments made by villagers in Asunder about magic when they were about to kill a Templar to kill mages.

The last one is just referenced in the lore several times in both games and both collectors edition strategy guides.

Do you know how rarely that happen? That just a case in one  or two village.

Well, in Asunder they mentioned 3 cases of magic doing harm in that one village in less then a year.

In DA2, Meredith's own sister turned into an obomination when she was a a kid and killed 70 people, there are other examples I could probably site, but I don't have time at the moment.

My point is, while the templars often go too far/are too hard line, the idea that magic is blameless and Mages don't present a danger to the general public is laughable.

[leaguer of one]

wcholcombe wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

ianvillan wrote...



I would also put the Chantry into the relationship and say that their dogma of mages being cursed and the cause of the darkspawn and loss of the maker is a major part of the Templars relationship to the mages.

People point to this, but read Asunder.  People don't fear mages and magic because the Chantry tells them to.  They fear mages and magic because their neighbors kid developed magical powers and burned down his whole farm, or the family across town had a kid develope magic and killed his whole family, or the village down the road had an apostate turn into an abomination and whipe out the entire town.

All but the last are direct comments made by villagers in Asunder about magic when they were about to kill a Templar to kill mages.

The last one is just referenced in the lore several times in both games and both collectors edition strategy guides.

Do you know how rarely that happen? That just a case in one  or two village.

Well, in Asunder they mentioned 3 cases of magic doing harm in that one village in less then a year.

In DA2, Meredith's own sister turned into an obomination when she was a a kid and killed 70 people, there are other examples I could probably site, but I don't have time at the moment.

My point is, while the templars often go too far/are too hard line, the idea that magic is blameless and Mages don't present a danger to the general public is laughable.

The issue with these cases is ignorance, not the mages. The mages are as much victems as the other people that are harmed. It a point towards having the circle, not mages are monsters that have to be caged. In Merediths case the issue was her and her own ignorance of the dangers of an untrained mage.
And even then it still rarly happens.

[Neon Rising Winter]

leaguer of one wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

Well, in Asunder they mentioned 3 cases of magic doing harm in that one village in less then a year.

In DA2, Meredith's own sister turned into an obomination when she was a a kid and killed 70 people, there are other examples I could probably site, but I don't have time at the moment.

My point is, while the templars often go too far/are too hard line, the idea that magic is blameless and Mages don't present a danger to the general public is laughable.

The issue with these cases is ignorance, not the mages. The mages are as much victems as the other people that are harmed. It a point towards having the circle, not mages are monsters that have to be caged. In Merediths case the issue was her and her own ignorance of the dangers of an untrained mage.
And even then it still rarly happens.

The templars strike me as a bog standard bureaucracy. Fine for dealing with the everyday stuff like helping run the circles, chasing non circle mages, dealing with the odd abomination. So long as they're not running into anything that puts them in conflict with the circle mages they seem competent enough.

Of course we only see the templars when the story has become interesting, and disaster looms. Once they find themselves in serious conflict with the circle they engage full headless chicken mode and panic. Possibly because there is a piece of paper somewhere in the bureaucratic morass that tells them to. It leaves the impression this is an organisation that needs a lot more adult supervision when things go wrong.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 25 septembre 2013 - 09:24 .

[Rolling Flame]

Orsino's betrayal was a contrived mess created solely for the purpose of another boss fight. Gameplay should never take priority over story.

[iOnlySignIn]

VampireSoap wrote...



You know something's wrong when you find out Orsino is still not emasculated after spending so many years being in the proximity of Meredith...

What makes you think he's the man in the relationship?

Look at their postures in that pic. Look.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 25 septembre 2013 - 09:26 .

[wolfhowwl]

Ferretinabun wrote...

I think it's because being a steel-fisted tyrant was always kinda part of Meredith's character. It's totally who she is. The idol just pushed her further down a path she was treading anyway.

Orsino's transformation, on the other hand, was a completely contrived and nonsensical ass-pull that people would rather pretend never really happened. I know I would. It's easier to think of Orsino as a character that Bioware simply messed up rather than one whose actions made an ounce of sense.

Orsino's transformation fit just fine on the Templar path.

[leaguer of one]

Rolling Flame wrote...

Orsino's betrayal was a contrived mess created solely for the purpose of another boss fight. Gameplay should never take priority over story.

Right, because people forced into a corner and are facing death and despair are always rational.

[TheKomandorShepard]

leaguer of one wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

Orsino's betrayal was a contrived mess created solely for the purpose of another boss fight. Gameplay should never take priority over story.

Right, because people forced into a corner and are facing death and despair are always rational.

if you side with mages this moment is completely idiotic hawke win anyway and orsino make only victory harder and still hawke win.

[Mr.House]

Orsino is not even a character, just a cardboard cutout that speaks so Meredith can argue.

[leaguer of one]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

Orsino's betrayal was a contrived mess created solely for the purpose of another boss fight. Gameplay should never take priority over story.

Right, because people forced into a corner and are facing death and despair are always rational.

if you side with mages this moment is completely idiotic hawke win anyway and orsino make only victory harder and still hawke win.

You mean Hawke is making sure all the mages don't die? Funny, why were there so many dead mages around?

[wolfhowwl]

Hawke failed at everything else, did you really think he could protect them?

[Mr.House]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hawke failed at everything else, did you really think he could protect them?

My Hawke didn't fail at pleasuring Isabela.

[TheKomandorShepard]

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

Orsino's betrayal was a contrived mess created solely for the purpose of another boss fight. Gameplay should never take priority over story.

Right, because people forced into a corner and are facing death and despair are always rational.

if you side with mages this moment is completely idiotic hawke win anyway and orsino make only victory harder and still hawke win.

You mean Hawke is making sure all the mages don't die? Funny, why were there so many dead mages around?

Despite that they still winning (well most of this who were with orsino stayed alive and escaped after his little incident as we seen) i don't know what orsino expected that everybody will get alive most of his mages were still alive despair is then where there is no hope and hope was still big and well hawke managed to win even if orsino make this much harder for him. But still i find that some of mages died even if i literally destroyed templars in final fight and templars don't have even opportunity to touch mages.  

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hawke failed at everything else, did you really think he could protect them?

My Hawke didn't fail at pleasuring Isabela.

sorry dude but isabela preferred zevran for pleasure:lol:

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hawke failed at everything else, did you really think he could protect them?

true thats what i m saying but i would add almost because his first main goal in act 1 was successful but still ends badly and well few his side quest was successful but only that

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 25 septembre 2013 - 09:47 .

[Mr.House]

Get out, she was much better then Zev. If not, she would not be so protective of her and get jealous.

[leaguer of one]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

Orsino's betrayal was a contrived mess created solely for the purpose of another boss fight. Gameplay should never take priority over story.

Right, because people forced into a corner and are facing death and despair are always rational.

if you side with mages this moment is completely idiotic hawke win anyway and orsino make only victory harder and still hawke win.

You mean Hawke is making sure all the mages don't die? Funny, why were there so many dead mages around?

Despite that they still winning (well most of this who were with orsino stayed alive and escaped after his little incident as we seen) i don't know what orsino expected that everybody will get alive most of his mages were still alive despair is then where there is no hope and hope was still big and well hawke managed to win even if orsino make this much harder for him. But still i find that some of mages died even if i literally destroyed templars in final fight and templars don't have even opportunity to touch mages.  

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hawke failed at everything else, did you really think he could protect them?

My Hawke didn't fail at pleasuring Isabela.

sorry dude but isabela preferred zevran for pleasure:lol:

Dude, they were clearly losing. If they held there ground  a vast ammount of mages would be dead. IThe templars were shooting fish in the barrel. Most of the mages lived becuase they turned tail.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hawke failed at everything else, did you really think he could protect them?

My Hawke didn't fail at pleasuring Isabela.

And then got all her diseases.

See, there's still a failure here. 

Modifié par SergeantSnookie, 25 septembre 2013 - 09:49 .

[bleetman]

leaguer of one wrote...

Merediths case the issue was her and her own ignorance of the dangers of an untrained mage.

Wat.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Mr.House wrote...

Get out, she was much better then Zev. If not, she would not be so protective of her and get jealous.

yeah morrigan was jealous also as well cesare borgia in AC but i wouldn't call them loving and caring peoples especially cesare if she was satisfied on hawke services she wouldn't go to another company:devil:.

[TheKomandorShepard]

leaguer of one wrote...

Dude, they were clearly losing. If they held there ground  a vast ammount of mages would be dead. IThe templars were shooting fish in the barrel. Most of the mages lived becuase they turned tail.

Wha i don't want remind but most mages with orsino managed survive and hawke still defeated templars even if orsino make it harder because he attacked hawke.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 25 septembre 2013 - 09:54 .

[leaguer of one]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hawke failed at everything else, did you really think he could protect them?

My Hawke didn't fail at pleasuring Isabela.

And then got all her diseases.

See, there's still a failure here. 

Yes...That slow glitch....