335 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

Plaintiff wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Seriously though.

Do Spartans sneak?

Answer me Plaintiffy.

How the hell should I know?

Spartans had a very distnct culture based around their own (equally arbitrary) ideas about what a warrior is and should be. If they didn't 'sneak', it was probably because they considered it cowardly or dishonorable, not because their spear training randomly deprived them of the capability.

Life is not an RPG, you do not have a finite amount of points to put into things. The reason RPG mechanics work that way is because they don't have a better one that actually represents the situation in any sort of accurate way.

So you want a hybrid class then?  Is that what you're stating?  You're defeating the point of a warrior.  They tank, they aggro, they taunt, they go in head first, all foundations of what makes a warrior and might I add, a true warrior.  Your lessening yourself if you choose to stray away from what the fundamentals bring, you weaken yourself as a warrior.  


Personally, from what I'm gathering, you're arguing more about Hybrid specific classes.  

[Cainhurst Crow]

David7204 wrote...

My favorite teacher in high school had a master's degree, several years of experience in the aerospace industry, and choose to leave it to teach teenagers for very mediocre pay.

It's absolutely possible.

Alright, he choose to inspire students to go on a path similar to his own, nothing wrong with mentoring.

What if your teacher had choosen to work at the local mcdonalds?

[Plaintiff]

Ryzaki wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Yes, but the goalpost was changed from "why would someone be a physician and flip burgers at the same time", to "why would a physician resort to flipping burgers".

Nobody said anything about it being a willing decision. I imagine if someone was desperately unhappy enough, they mght do it, but if they're that unhappy with their career at this point, then chances are they have severe depression anyway.

Meaning they couldn't perform a surgery...so it's still valid. The whole discussion was about whether you'd trust someone flipping burgers to do a surgery on you no? (general you not you you.)

And my response was that I would not immediatly assume someone to be unqualified, just because they were flipping burgers right at this particular time.

As you and others have added addendum after addendum, the question has morphed into something completely different.

[Ryzaki]

spirosz wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Seriously though.

Do Spartans sneak?

Answer me Plaintiffy.

How the hell should I know?

Spartans had a very distnct culture based around their own (equally arbitrary) ideas about what a warrior is and should be. If they didn't 'sneak', it was probably because they considered it cowardly or dishonorable, not because their spear training randomly deprived them of the capability.

Life is not an RPG, you do not have a finite amount of points to put into things. The reason RPG mechanics work that way is because they don't have a better one that actually represents the situation in any sort of accurate way.

So you want a hybrid class then?  Is that what you're stating?  You're defeating the point of a warrior.  They tank, they aggro, they taunt, they go in head first, all foundations of what makes a warrior and might I add, a true warrior.  Your lessening yourself if you choose to stray away from what the fundamentals bring, you weaken yourself as a warrior.  


Personally, from what I'm gathering, you're arguing more about Hybrid specific classes.  

Hybrid mage/rogue would be the most hilariously broken class ever.

[Steelcan]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Yes, but the goalpost was changed from "why would someone be a physician and flip burgers at the same time", to "why would a physician resort to flipping burgers".

Nobody said anything about it being a willing decision. I imagine if someone was desperately unhappy enough, they mght do it, but if they're that unhappy with their career at this point, then chances are they have severe depression anyway.

Meaning they couldn't perform a surgery...so it's still valid. The whole discussion was about whether you'd trust someone flipping burgers to do a surgery on you no? (general you not you you.)

And my response was that I would not immediatly assume someone to be unqualified, just because they were flipping burgers right at this particular time.

As you and others have added addendum after addendum, the question has morphed into something completely different.

[Ravensword]

Plaintiff wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
He also talks about his "interesting traits," that he shared with his father. Rogues and Warriors are separated by more than just skills. Completely different in most attributes, skills, and strengths.

The allotment of skills and attributes is a mechanical abstraction, not an accurate representation of what is actually occuring in the game world. These processes and statistics are invisible to the characters.

Otherwise, we could all be bards, duelists, and assassins and no one would be none the wiser or comment on it.

Yes, you could be, and there's no reason why you shouldn't be, except that the mechanics arbitrarily prevent it.

Except you wouldn't know how to do these things. I certainly don't want the guy making my McGriddle to be my physician because he is able to be.

How does being a fry cook in any way prevent him from also beng a fully-qualified physician?

What is your beef with people who work two jobs?

Right, b/c doctors also flip burgers at McDonald's in order to make the rent.

[Ryzaki]

Plaintiff wrote...
And my response was that I would not immediatly assume someone to be unqualified, just because they were flipping burgers right at this particular time.

As you and others have added addendum after addendum, the question has morphed into something completely different.

And I pointed out the unlikelhood of someone qualified being in that position in the first place.

Then you gave a bunch of reasons why'd they be in that situation...that pretty much said how they were unqualified to be doing a surgery at that point in time.

[David7204]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

My favorite teacher in high school had a master's degree, several years of experience in the aerospace industry, and choose to leave it to teach teenagers for very mediocre pay.

It's absolutely possible.

Alright, he choose to inspire students to go on a path similar to his own, nothing wrong with mentoring.

What if your teacher had choosen to work at the local mcdonalds?

It's incredibly unlikely, but there are bound to be a few such freaks on this Earth.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

My favorite teacher in high school had a master's degree, several years of experience in the aerospace industry, and choose to leave it to teach teenagers for very mediocre pay.

It's absolutely possible.

Alright, he choose to inspire students to go on a path similar to his own, nothing wrong with mentoring.

What if your teacher had choosen to work at the local mcdonalds?

It's incredibly unlikely, but there are bound to be a few such freaks on this Earth.

[Br3admax]

Ryzaki wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
And my response was that I would not immediatly assume someone to be unqualified, just because they were flipping burgers right at this particular time.

As you and others have added addendum after addendum, the question has morphed into something completely different.

And I pointed out the unlikelhood of someone qualified being in that position in the first place.

Then you gave a bunch of reasons why'd they be in that situation...that pretty much said how they were unqualified to be doing a surgery at that point in time.

This is what heartburn looks like. You need to lower the heat on your dial to Medium-Low and the problem should clear right up, Ryzaki. 

[Ryzaki]

I'm pretty sure anyone who willingly chooses to work at McDonalds isn't going to waste 8 years of their life in an expensive school beforehand.

Edit:  thx for that.

Also realistically speaking why in the hell would MS hire a surgeon over some young barely any job experience, low expectations for wage and unlikely to complain about the money they get? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 septembre 2013 - 02:31 .

[AresKeith]

AresKeith wrote...

But Warriors should get Duel Wielding and archery back

And rogues can get sickle and chain or rapier

^^

[Plaintiff]

spirosz wrote...
So you want a hybrid class then? Is that what you're stating?

No. The discussion at this point is completely removed from anything to do with what I want in a game.

What I am stating is that class distinctions have no bearing on the logic of the setting. I don't know how the hell I got here, but that's where I'm at now.

I don't care particularly what Bioware does with the classes, as long as each class has an equal number of skills. Ideally, the classes would all be completely disparate from each other (so no overlapping skills), and there would be enough variety in each that they'd be able to fulfill a range of roles.

You're defeating the point of a warrior.  They tank, they aggro, they taunt, they go in head first, all foundations of what makes a warrior and might I add, a true warrior.  Your lessening yourself if you choose to stray away from what the fundamentals bring, you weaken yourself as a warrior.

Perhaps you should tell this to Ryzaki, who wants warriors to have archery, or some other sort of significant ranged capability.

Personally, from what I'm gathering, you're arguing more about Hybrid specific classes.

Not particularly. There are two paths I would consider acceptable.

1) Keep classes as they are. Completely disparate, with no skill overlap. But add additional exploration functionality to Warrior and Mage with rough equivalence to Rogue's lockpicking/trap talents.

2) Have weapon talents be entirely unrelated to class, so that any class can equip any weapon and learn the associated skills. Class-specific skills should reman disparate with no overlap, and Warrior and Mage shoud be given the aforementioned additional exploration functionality.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 27 septembre 2013 - 02:33 .

[Azaron Nightblade]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

My favorite teacher in high school had a master's degree, several years of experience in the aerospace industry, and choose to leave it to teach teenagers for very mediocre pay.

It's absolutely possible.

Alright, he choose to inspire students to go on a path similar to his own, nothing wrong with mentoring.

What if your teacher had choosen to work at the local mcdonalds?

You do realize that there actually are college students and such that actually do get ****ty jobs to pay for their education, right?
Sure they won't do it full time, but it happens - it doesn't mean they will automatically fail at their studies.
Heck, there are probably students on these very forums and playing games, wasting time when they could be studying instead - there's no reason they couldn't be learning something else aside from their studies.
There are plenty of students that still belong to a sport club of some sort, whether it's a soccer team, an archery club or any other sport.

Being good at one thing doesn't mean you can't be proficient at anything else for the rest of your life.
It's silly to say that a swordsman can't even fire a bow with decent accuracy because he knows how to use swords - that's what the skill points are for after all, there are only so many things a character can do well.

Modifié par Azaron Nightblade, 27 septembre 2013 - 02:35 .

[Steelcan]

Plaintiff wrote...

spirosz wrote...
So you want a hybrid class then? Is that what you're stating?

No. The discussion at this point is completely removed from anything to do with what I want in a game.

What I am stating is that class distinctions have no bearing on the logic of the setting. I don't know how the hell I got here, but that's where I'm at now.

I don't care particularly what Bioware does with the classes, as long as each class has an equal number of skills. Ideally, the classes would all be completely disparate from each other (so no overlapping skills), and there would be enough variety in each that they'd be able to fulfill a variety of roles.

You're defeating the point of a warrior.  They tank, they aggro, they taunt, they go in head first, all foundations of what makes a warrior and might I add, a true warrior.  Your lessening yourself if you choose to stray away from what the fundamentals bring, you weaken yourself as a warrior.

Perhaps you should tell this to Ryzaki, who wants warriors to have archery, or some other sort of significant ranged capability.

Personally, from what I'm gathering, you're arguing more about Hybrid specific classes.

Not particularly. There are two paths I would consider acceptable.

1) Keep classes as they are. Completely disparate, with no skill overlap. But add additional exploration functionality to Warrior and Mage with rough equivalence to Rogue's lockpicking/trap talents.

2) Have weapon talents be entirely unrelated to class, so that any class can equip any weapon and learn the associated skills. Class-specific skills should reman disparate with no overlap, and Warrior and Mage shoud be given the aforementioned additional exploration functionality.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Warriors should have sword and shield, two handed, dual wielding and archery.

Rogues should have dual daggers, one handed swords, archery, and bombs.

[AresKeith]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Warriors should have sword and shield, two handed, dual wielding and archery.

Rogues should have dual daggers, one handed swords, archery, and bombs.

But Sickle and chain 

[Ryzaki]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...
You do realize that there actually are college students and such that actually do get ****ty jobs to pay for their education, right?
Sure they won't do it full time, but it happens - it doesn't mean they will automatically fail at their studies.
Heck, there are probably students on these very forums and playing games, wasting time when they could be studying instead - there's no reason they couldn't be learning something else aside from their studies.
There are plenty of students that still belong to a sport club of some sort, whether it's a soccer team, an archery club or any other sport.

Being good at one thing doesn't mean you can't be proficient at anything else for the rest of your life.
It's silly to say that a swordsman can't even fire a bow decent accuracy because he knows how to use swords - that's what the skill points are for after all, there are only so many things a character can do well.

Re the bolded:

Do you *really* think a job at McDonalds making minimum wage (which isn't enough enough to live off decently by yourself) is enough to pay for medschool? (Not to mention I wouldn't want a fresh student giving me surgery anyway).

I agree on the people working because plenty of my friends worked in college but we weren't in medschool we were in plain 4 year college.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 septembre 2013 - 02:36 .

[Br3admax]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

My favorite teacher in high school had a master's degree, several years of experience in the aerospace industry, and choose to leave it to teach teenagers for very mediocre pay.

It's absolutely possible.

Alright, he choose to inspire students to go on a path similar to his own, nothing wrong with mentoring.

What if your teacher had choosen to work at the local mcdonalds?

You do realize that there actually are college students and such that actually do get ****ty jobs to pay for their education, right?
Sure they won't do it full time, but it happens - it doesn't mean they will automatically fail at their studies.
Heck, there are probably students on these very forums and playing games, wasting time when they could be studying instead - there's no reason they couldn't be learning something else aside from their studies.
There are plenty of students that still belong to a sport club of some sort, whether it's a soccer team, an archery club or any other sport.

Being good at one thing doesn't mean you can't be proficient at anything else for the rest of your life.
It's silly to say that a swordsman can't even fire a bow decent accuracy because he knows how to use swords - that's what the skill points are for after all, there are only so many things a character can do well.

You're in the wrong argument, son. Nor are you even arguing the same point. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

My favorite teacher in high school had a master's degree, several years of experience in the aerospace industry, and choose to leave it to teach teenagers for very mediocre pay.

It's absolutely possible.

Alright, he choose to inspire students to go on a path similar to his own, nothing wrong with mentoring.

What if your teacher had choosen to work at the local mcdonalds?

You do realize that there actually are college students and such that actually do get ****ty jobs to pay for their education, right?
Sure they won't do it full time, but it happens - it doesn't mean they will automatically fail at their studies.
Heck, there are probably students on these very forums and playing games, wasting time when they could be studying instead - there's no reason they couldn't be learning something else aside from their studies.
There are plenty of students that still belong to a sport club of some sort, whether it's a soccer team, an archery club or any other sport.

Being good at one thing doesn't mean you can't be proficient at anything else for the rest of your life.
It's silly to say that a swordsman can't even fire a bow decent accuracy because he knows how to use swords - that's what the skill points are for after all, there are only so many things a character can do well.

You didn't read what was said, this is someone who completed their college work, and had a job in the aerospace industry for several years, probably enough to pay off their student loans, and decided to take a career teaching others. It was posted as a defense for plantiff's stupidity about a surgeon going into flipping burgers and being skilled in both, which is pretty damn stupid are far as analogies go.

[Cainhurst Crow]

AresKeith wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Warriors should have sword and shield, two handed, dual wielding and archery.

Rogues should have dual daggers, one handed swords, archery, and bombs.

But Sickle and chain 

D.L.C.



Along with polearms for warriors and necromancy for mages.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 27 septembre 2013 - 02:37 .