203 réponses à ce sujet

[Akir388]

Sometimes you can get up to 3 mooks in one Heavy Melee. With Bonus Power on SS you can take out two enemies in very short amount of time. Playing the Shadow isn't about killing things quickly though. It is about playing strategically to take out the higher threat targets before they become a problem for your team.

[Sailears]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Since ES is a reusable grenade with a target cap, it seems pretty good for gold.

The venom seems like it could be put to good use against everything else still alive.


SS just seems like so much risk for only one dead enemy. What's the point of such a risky power if only one enemy dies at a time?

Yes SS is single target, but if you use SS with weapon and melee you can take out multiple targets in a small group very quickly.

For instance regarding mooks - pick target, cloak/ss, see two bunched together and a third loose target - shoot the loose target, initiate ES on the other two, follow up ES directly with heavy melee, dodge back into cover. All within a handful of seconds, 4 targets.

That's just one situation, but with skillful use of weapon/SS/melee/dodging and the odd ES for crowd control/stagger or a tech burst if you like, you can be just as effective at clearing things. SS also decimates bosses; banshees for instance - use it while they're teleporting even if solo, once barrier down only requires an SS/shoot/melee or similar.

And speaking of heavy melee, I had one situation where the heavy melee took out 2 brutes and a banshee at the same time. All on just under half armour. It's very powerful but requires careful execution.

Modifié par Curunen, 26 septembre 2013 - 11:07 .

[Tokenusername]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Since ES is a reusable grenade with a target cap, it seems pretty good for gold.

The venom seems like it could be put to good use against everything else still alive.


SS just seems like so much risk for only one dead enemy. What's the point of such a risky power if only one enemy dies at a time?

When that enemy is a Geth Prime.

But I can just shoot it with tactical cloak.

Then why use any power on any class?

[Red Panda]

Akire wrote...

Sometimes you can get up to 3 mooks in one Heavy Melee. With Bonus Power on SS you can take out two enemies in very short amount of time. Playing the Shadow isn't about killing things quickly though. It is about playing strategically to take out the higher threat targets before they become a problem for your team.

With ES it seems like I could cloak, slash, and unload with vemon, typhoon, or other weapon of lethality.

[Red Panda]

Tokenusername wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Since ES is a reusable grenade with a target cap, it seems pretty good for gold.

The venom seems like it could be put to good use against everything else still alive.


SS just seems like so much risk for only one dead enemy. What's the point of such a risky power if only one enemy dies at a time?

When that enemy is a Geth Prime.

But I can just shoot it with tactical cloak.

Then why use any power on any class?

Slippery slope fallacy.

Shadow strike often ends up with you being staggered to death off-host.

Tac cloak, CC power, shoot is better there.

[Sailears]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Akire wrote...

Sometimes you can get up to 3 mooks in one Heavy Melee. With Bonus Power on SS you can take out two enemies in very short amount of time. Playing the Shadow isn't about killing things quickly though. It is about playing strategically to take out the higher threat targets before they become a problem for your team.

With ES it seems like I could cloak, slash, and unload with vemon, typhoon, or other weapon of lethality.

ES builds are more devastating to groups for obvious reasons, but it's very one dimenional and will end up annoying teammates unless you run around by yourself rushing spawns and detonating tech explosions.

[Tokenusername]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Slippery slope fallacy.

Shadow strike often ends up with you being staggered to death off-host.

Tac cloak, CC power, shoot is better there.

My own emperical evidence says otherwise.

[bondiboy]

She is one of the kits that I will not play off host . I play her because I like to SS annoying mooks and phantoms and decapitating with melee. If you mean that this will lead to a lower score or kill rate when you say 'nerfing oneself" then you are right but I dont play her for high scores.

ie.,  I agree with you that she could be more efficient as a killer with your build but it really depends on how you want to play her.

Modifié par stricko, 26 septembre 2013 - 11:16 .

[ndw542]

Oh snap, it's about to get empirical up in here!!

[Red Panda]

Tokenusername wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Slippery slope fallacy.

Shadow strike often ends up with you being staggered to death off-host.

Tac cloak, CC power, shoot is better there.

My own emperical evidence says otherwise.

Then you do not know the blight of shoddy PUG connections.

Your experience varies compared to others, you know?

[MGW7]

Tokenusername wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Slippery slope fallacy.

Shadow strike often ends up with you being staggered to death off-host.

Tac cloak, CC power, shoot is better there.

My own emperical evidence says otherwise.

OperatingWookie wrote...


Then you do not know the blight of shoddy PUG connections.

Your experience varies compared to others, you know?

I have gone over 90 % of my pugs without getting staggered by my ss target, even with relativly bad lag,
I have ss'ed preatorians without recieving hits, all you have to do is not SS into terrible situations, lag only forces you to use increased caution

Modifié par MGW7, 26 septembre 2013 - 11:19 .

[Red Panda]

MGW7 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Slippery slope fallacy.

Shadow strike often ends up with you being staggered to death off-host.

Tac cloak, CC power, shoot is better there.

My own emperical evidence says otherwise.

I have gone over 90 % of my pugs without getting staggered by my ss target,
I have ss'ed preatorians without recieving hits, all you have to do is not SS into terrible situations

Sounds like you're analyzing the situation.

You're not killing. That means you're slowing the game down. Shadow strike slows down the gameplay.

[Sailears]

MGW7 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Slippery slope fallacy.

Shadow strike often ends up with you being staggered to death off-host.

Tac cloak, CC power, shoot is better there.

My own emperical evidence says otherwise.

I have gone over 90 % of my pugs without getting staggered by my ss target,
I have ss'ed preatorians without recieving hits, all you have to do is not SS into terrible situations

This.

You'll only get hit if you get impatient and rush, maybe out of trying to keep up with another player (I'm still trying to learn that lesson). Watching animations and timing = you should almost never get hit.
In a team situation you can go crazy SSing and meleeing praetorians and suchlike.

Modifié par Curunen, 26 septembre 2013 - 11:20 .

[Sailears]

OperatingWookie wrote...

MGW7 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Slippery slope fallacy.

Shadow strike often ends up with you being staggered to death off-host.

Tac cloak, CC power, shoot is better there.

My own emperical evidence says otherwise.

I have gone over 90 % of my pugs without getting staggered by my ss target,
I have ss'ed preatorians without recieving hits, all you have to do is not SS into terrible situations

Sounds like you're analyzing the situation.

You're not killing. That means you're slowing the game down. Shadow strike slows down the gameplay.

Yes it does slow it down compared to, well say a talon GI

But it's not that slow - I can keep up with most kits that aren't cheese builds.

Modifié par Curunen, 26 septembre 2013 - 11:23 .

[MGW7]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Sounds like you're analyzing the situation.

You're not killing. That means you're slowing the game down. Shadow strike slows down the gameplay.

It's not all or nothing, choosing when to SS versus when to shoot or when to run is a huge factor, relying on one source of damage is the worst thing you can do, if you end up running into something immune to one type of attack you need a second option,

Now at the same time, there are no enemies immune to weapons, which throws the balace towards super weapon specialists, but that is a different topic,

I prefer to think while filling faces with lead

[Red Panda]

Curunen wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

MGW7 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Slippery slope fallacy.

Shadow strike often ends up with you being staggered to death off-host.

Tac cloak, CC power, shoot is better there.

My own emperical evidence says otherwise.

I have gone over 90 % of my pugs without getting staggered by my ss target,
I have ss'ed preatorians without recieving hits, all you have to do is not SS into terrible situations

Sounds like you're analyzing the situation.

You're not killing. That means you're slowing the game down. Shadow strike slows down the gameplay.

Yes it does slow it down compared to, well say a talon GI

But it's not that slow - I can keep up with most kits that aren't cheese builds.

That won't serve you well in a platinum match where you need to kill quickly.

[Sailears]

^Yes it is a fair point on platinum, where you're better off with ES, weapons and tech bursts. SS build is much harder and will resort to a lot of shooting; not bad, but not optimal for the boss spam.

But every optimum character build on platinum boils down to one thing - as much dps on as many targets as possible, so many fun (mostly melee) builds that are viable on gold get tossed aside on platinum.

[MGW7]

OperatingWookie wrote...
That won't serve you well in a platinum match where you need to kill quickly.

Yes platinum,

The shadow suffers severly on platinum because she is designed aroud killing infantry, not big tanky bosses
She is far more reliant on her weapons for boss killing, which works when there is 1 or 2 bosses, who's infantry support is all dead,  but platinum has more bosses and sub bosses than lesser forces,

Shadow isn't ideal for platinum, Weapons classes are ideal for platinum, so the only realistic way to build her for platinum is as a weapons class, but other characters do it better

Curunen wrote...

^Yes it is a fair point on platinum, where you're better off with ES, weapons and tech bursts. SS build is much harder and will resort to a lot of shooting; not bad, but not optimal for the boss spam.

But every optimum character build on platinum boils down to one thing - as much dps on as many targets as possible, so many fun (mostly melee) builds that are viable on gold get tossed aside on platinum.

Platinum is for weapons masters, everything else takes far longer, and requires a mind numbingly tedius amount of kiting

Modifié par MGW7, 26 septembre 2013 - 11:35 .

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

I'd rather go without the sniper damage in cloak cause I don't ever snipe with her. She should have gotten a massive sword damage boost at rank six in cloak or shotgun damage. I run her with the wraith. Although if I had to choose between going without either SS or ES, it'll be ES. Cause SS is too useful to pass up.

[Red Panda]

Curunen wrote...

^Yes it is a fair point on platinum, where you're better off with ES, weapons and tech bursts. SS build is much harder and will resort to a lot of shooting; not bad, but not optimal for the boss spam.

But every optimum character build on platinum boils down to one thing - as much dps on as many targets as possible, so many fun (mostly melee) builds that are viable on gold get tossed aside on platinum.

Of course, the DPS builds are more effective on gold as well.

So, why isn't this a viable way to play?

[Sailears]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Curunen wrote...

^Yes it is a fair point on platinum, where you're better off with ES, weapons and tech bursts. SS build is much harder and will resort to a lot of shooting; not bad, but not optimal for the boss spam.

But every optimum character build on platinum boils down to one thing - as much dps on as many targets as possible, so many fun (mostly melee) builds that are viable on gold get tossed aside on platinum.

Of course, the DPS builds are more effective on gold as well.

So, why isn't this a viable way to play?

Er? I never said it wasn't a viable way to play, on the contrary I said it was more effective than melee (but not by much on gold), however one-dimensional and potentially annoying to teammates because of screen shake.

I don't find that fun personally.

[MGW7]

^That too

OperatingWookie wrote...

Curunen wrote...

^Yes it is a fair point on platinum, where you're better off with ES, weapons and tech bursts. SS build is much harder and will resort to a lot of shooting; not bad, but not optimal for the boss spam.

But every optimum character build on platinum boils down to one thing - as much dps on as many targets as possible, so many fun (mostly melee) builds that are viable on gold get tossed aside on platinum.

Of course, the DPS builds are more effective on gold as well.

So, why isn't this a viable way to play?

Not that it isn't viable, just really generic, and there are characters that do the exact same thing better,
and if you are argueing Weapons are more effective, why not just say GI and be done with it,

Modifié par MGW7, 26 septembre 2013 - 11:39 .

[Red Panda]

MGW7 wrote...

^That too

OperatingWookie wrote...

Curunen wrote...

^Yes it is a fair point on platinum, where you're better off with ES, weapons and tech bursts. SS build is much harder and will resort to a lot of shooting; not bad, but not optimal for the boss spam.

But every optimum character build on platinum boils down to one thing - as much dps on as many targets as possible, so many fun (mostly melee) builds that are viable on gold get tossed aside on platinum.

Of course, the DPS builds are more effective on gold as well.

So, why isn't this a viable way to play?

Not that it isn't viable, just really generic, and there are characters that do the exact same thing better,
and if you are argueing Weapons are more effective, why not just say GI and be done with it,

Because the GI is machine and wires.

And it lacks a sword with electric powers.

[Akir388]

I don't think anyone said it isn't viable. Just that a Shadow Strike build on the Shadow is better on any difficulty but Platinum. If you want to go the easy route then by all means do a DPS weapons build with her.

Part of the reason I love the Shadow is because a full melee build is challenging to play well.

[Tokenusername]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Curunen wrote...

^Yes it is a fair point on platinum, where you're better off with ES, weapons and tech bursts. SS build is much harder and will resort to a lot of shooting; not bad, but not optimal for the boss spam.

But every optimum character build on platinum boils down to one thing - as much dps on as many targets as possible, so many fun (mostly melee) builds that are viable on gold get tossed aside on platinum.

Of course, the DPS builds are more effective on gold as well.

So, why isn't this a viable way to play?

No one said your choice of build was not viable, only that your reasons for discrediting SS were false.

You seem to only be caring about what's optimum, and if you're looking for an optimum solution there are several kits which will do far better as weapon builds.