249 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oh, please... Red Lyrium causes instanity jsut by being near it. There is no "overload" treshold.

And no, I don't the scenario is very reasonable. I don't think it makes a good plot twist.

That's not ture at all. Hawke would of been under it influence by the time he walked into the room in the thiag...As well as most of the templars at Meremdith's side.

[dragonflight288]

It seems to have a stronger influence on dwarves than people. Meredith was in possession of it for about 3 years.

I'm sure if they openly abused it, it could affect them faster.

Or I may be wrong and Inquisition will tell me so. Until then, this is what the evidence supports.

[leaguer of one]

Lathrim wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oh, please... Red Lyrium causes instanity jsut by being near it. There is no "overload" treshold.

And no, I don't the scenario is very reasonable. I don't think it makes a good plot twist.

That's not ture at all. Hawke would of been under it influence by the time he walked into the room in the thiag...As well as most of the templars at Meremdith's side.

Soronnar is most likely thinking of Varric. Dwarves seem to be unusually susceptible to Red Lyrium's effects, whilst Humans can stand it for longer, Meredith having withstood it for years.

Which is my point. It's not so much of a a insta insanaty maker unless all the templars are going to be dwarves.

[Laughing_Man]

Also, we don't know for sure that the red-templar faction is insane.
Overzealous and fanatic yes, mutated too, but for all you know there might be a strategy behind their actions. Maybe they actually learned from Meredith how to resist the mind warping elements of red lyrium.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...

It seems to have a stronger influence on dwarves than people. Meredith was in possession of it for about 3 years.

Meredith not only has great magic resistance, but also incredible willpower.
IIRC, David at one point mentioned that Meredith resisting it's infulence for so long is incredible.


Also, Hawke was with the idol for only a few minutes.
It takes a bit more than that to make someone go mad.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
You hate it because of your bias. But its not bad writing. this could have happend much earlier . templars are slaves to lyrium the one who controls the lyrium controls the templars. While i did not expect this to happen this is nothing more then bring the many flaws of the templar order to its logical conclusion.

And maybe you love it becaue of your bias?

I say it is bad writing. Period. And there's not a damn thing you can say that will change my mind.
Dragon Age: Inquisition General Discussion
I asked before - what does it add? Nothing. Templar flaws and logical conclusion?
No, this is turning templars into mages and mindless monsters. This is a shoddy attempt to make things grey by making everyone "equal".

They where always equal. Mundanes could become spirit warriors and reavers and they could use lyrium runes like fenris and to ad to that list the are new shiny red templars.  And that the templars become corrupted is not unsuprising because since dragon age 1 you know that these guys are lyrium addicts. and now somebody used that to his advantage.

You can say bad writing but its nothing more then personal tastes i dont see any plot holes or deus ex machina  , yet ! my opnion may alter after DA3 but right you are just pissed that your templars are even a greater danger to humanity then the mages.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

It seems to have a stronger influence on dwarves than people. Meredith was in possession of it for about 3 years.

Meredith not only has great magic resistance, but also incredible willpower.
IIRC, David at one point mentioned that Meredith resisting it's infulence for so long is incredible.


Also, Hawke was with the idol for only a few minutes.
It takes a bit more than that to make someone go mad.

doesnt matter she succumbed to it in the end.. But i could be that the idol affected dwarfs differently. it was found in a dwarven thaigh after all

[legbamel]

leaguer of one wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Oh, please... Red Lyrium causes instanity jsut by being near it. There is no "overload" treshold.

And no, I don't the scenario is very reasonable. I don't think it makes a good plot twist.

That's not ture at all. Hawke would of been under it influence by the time he walked into the room in the thiag...As well as most of the templars at Meremdith's side.

Soronnar is most likely thinking of Varric. Dwarves seem to be unusually susceptible to Red Lyrium's effects, whilst Humans can stand it for longer, Meredith having withstood it for years.

Which is my point. It's not so much of a a insta insanaty maker unless all the templars are going to be dwarves.

These people also handled red lyrium but did not ingest it.  If the Templars have been taking doses of lyrium for years it seems likely they'll assume it needs to go inside, which one would guess would only magnify its effects.

I don't think you can pass judgment on a plot element until it has context.  I'm not in love with the idea of crazy-making magic juice but if there's a good story around its origin and why anyone would choose to use it (and if the fights are interesting) I'm willing to enjoy it.

Modifié par legbamel, 29 septembre 2013 - 03:25 .

[The Hierophant]

legbamel wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Oh, please... Red Lyrium causes instanity jsut by being near it. There is no "overload" treshold.

And no, I don't the scenario is very reasonable. I don't think it makes a good plot twist.

That's not ture at all. Hawke would of been under it influence by the time he walked into the room in the thiag...As well as most of the templars at Meremdith's side.

Soronnar is most likely thinking of Varric. Dwarves seem to be unusually susceptible to Red Lyrium's effects, whilst Humans can stand it for longer, Meredith having withstood it for years.

Which is my point. It's not so much of a a insta insanaty maker unless all the templars are going to be dwarves.

These people also handled red lyrium but did not ingest it.  If the Templars have been taking doses of lyrium for years it seems likely they'll assume it needs to go inside, which one would guess would only magnify its effects.

If the red lyrium is converted into liquid i think it would be diluted like the regular version, but that might be invalidated by the Temps using gear that's crafted from raw red lyrium.

I don't think you can pass judgment on a plot element until it has context. I'm not in love with the idea of crazy-making magic juice but if there's a good story around its origin and why anyone would choose to use it (and if the fights are interesting) I'm willing to enjoy it.

I'd like the bolded, but i feel mostly <_< towards red lyrium as i'm tired of crazies, and brainwashed in BW's games.

[leaguer of one]

The Hierophant wrote...



I'd like the bolded, but i feel mostly <_< towards red lyrium as i'm tired of crazies, and brainwashed in BW's games.

But it's not brain washing. Added we don't how soon it effects the mind. Templar minds go to mush over time anyways.

[Plaintiff]

Beware the Reds under the bed.

[The Hierophant]

leaguer of one wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...



I'd like the bolded, but i feel mostly <_< towards red lyrium as i'm tired of crazies, and brainwashed in BW's games.

But it's not brain washing. Added we don't how soon it effects the mind. Templar minds go to mush over time anyways.

It falls under the crazies bit, but it's still a mind altering substance and if the Temps are guzzling down liquid Red Lyrium in combination with using gear that's crafted from it, then it's possible that their brains are fried. 

Modifié par The Hierophant, 29 septembre 2013 - 04:29 .

[BlueMagitek]

As I said earlier, normal lyrium does damage the mind, I'm just surprised red lyrium works so quickly.

[leaguer of one]

The Hierophant wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...



I'd like the bolded, but i feel mostly <_< towards red lyrium as i'm tired of crazies, and brainwashed in BW's games.

But it's not brain washing. Added we don't how soon it effects the mind. Templar minds go to mush over time anyways.

It falls under the crazies bit, but it's still a mind altering substance and if the Temps are guzzling down liquid Red Lyrium in combination with using gear that's crafted from it, then it's possible that their brains are fried. 

Which is part of the risk of it. We just don't see how soon it happens. Remember, regular lyrium is also a mind fring substace. It just takes longer to do it.

[leaguer of one]

Plaintiff wrote...

Beware the Reds under the bed.

Better dead then red.

[Angrywolves]

Not a fan of the red lyrium stuff.
Didn't understand a lot behind what went on in the deep roads in DA2 when we first saw it.
Maybe DAI will provide a more thorough explanation .
Was that area in DA2 dwarven or elven?

[leaguer of one]

Angrywolves wrote...

Not a fan of the red lyrium stuff.
Didn't understand a lot behind what went on in the deep roads in DA2 when we first saw it.
Maybe DAI will provide a more thorough explanation .
Was that area in DA2 dwarven or elven?

Dwarven.

[Vulpe]

Angrywolves wrote...

Not a fan of the red lyrium stuff.
Didn't understand a lot behind what went on in the deep roads in DA2 when we first saw it.
Maybe DAI will provide a more thorough explanation .
Was that area in DA2 dwarven or elven?

A dwarven thaig.

[Br3admax]

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Beware the Reds under the bed.

Better dead then red.

I'd rather be red red, than dead dead. 

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Beware the Reds under the bed.

Better dead then red.

I'd rather be red red, than dead dead. 

How about red dead redemtion?

[deuce985]

billy the squid wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Red Lyrium is a mind numbingly dumb concept and the writing team needs to move away from ideas that they came up with while they were on a bad acid trip. It's a cack handed way of making a villain to fight, make him buckets of crazy and then crowbar in a "thou must" position. It was the same with Cerberus, they went from a shady covert organisation in ME1 to buckets of crazy galactic spanning conquest because of "indoctrination"

Bravo BioWare, bravo.

Since you apparently have access to Bioware's writing team and script...mind sharing it with me? I'd love to read it. I mean, you have it all figured out already so I'm assuming you read what we haven't yet.

So Red Lyrium is going to be retconned from the fiasco of DA2? Please, tell me how good BioWare's track record of using plot devices is. I must have mistaken DA2, ME2 and ME3 dense handwaving for a well reasoned story as to why events happen and why people act in certain ways. 

Or are you just going to do the "wait and see, we don't know yet" line like everyone did in DA2, and in ME3 when people were criticising the demo and story before release then. 

Well, obviously. I'm not going to speak in assertions I know nothing about yet. If it ends up being like you said then it is what it is. I can't critique something unless I know the full details to it. In this case, nobody in here does and some of you are already chastising Bioware without knowing the facts. It's ok to be skeptical but you shouldn't insult Bioware so harshly. Do you speak to people like that in real life? I doubt they would ever look at your post and take it seriously based on how you worded it. What we saw in DA2 might be much deeper than we know.

Red Lyrium itself is still somewhat of a big mystery.

Modifié par deuce985, 29 septembre 2013 - 08:46 .

[dragonflight288]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

It seems to have a stronger influence on dwarves than people. Meredith was in possession of it for about 3 years.

Meredith not only has great magic resistance, but also incredible willpower.
IIRC, David at one point mentioned that Meredith resisting it's infulence for so long is incredible.


Also, Hawke was with the idol for only a few minutes.
It takes a bit more than that to make someone go mad.

Varric started going insane in Ch. 3 just by being in proximity to a broken piece, within minutes, whereas Hawke was unaffected.

And what does Meredith resisting the idol have to do with her eventually succumbing to it or that dwarves may or may not be more affected by it?

[dragonflight288]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
You hate it because of your bias. But its not bad writing. this could have happend much earlier . templars are slaves to lyrium the one who controls the lyrium controls the templars. While i did not expect this to happen this is nothing more then bring the many flaws of the templar order to its logical conclusion.

And maybe you love it becaue of your bias?

I say it is bad writing. Period. And there's not a damn thing you can say that will change my mind.
Dragon Age: Inquisition General Discussion
I asked before - what does it add? Nothing. Templar flaws and logical conclusion?
No, this is turning templars into mages and mindless monsters. This is a shoddy attempt to make things grey by making everyone "equal".

They where always equal. Mundanes could become spirit warriors and reavers and they could use lyrium runes like fenris and to ad to that list the are new shiny red templars.  And that the templars become corrupted is not unsuprising because since dragon age 1 you know that these guys are lyrium addicts. and now somebody used that to his advantage.

You can say bad writing but its nothing more then personal tastes i dont see any plot holes or deus ex machina  , yet ! my opnion may alter after DA3 but right you are just pissed that your templars are even a greater danger to humanity then the mages.

This is true.

Fact of the matter is, templars minds go to mush after spending so much time ingesting lyrium, and they are addicted to it. The templars have left the Chantry, and have thereby left the only truly reliable source of it, unless the dwarves open up trade with another group. Templars are going to go nuts, whether in their desperation for another 'blue' lyrium source, or because they turned to red lyrium, which is so much more dangerous than blue.

It's been predicted to happen as far back as Origins. It's not bad writing when it does fit the canon of the game and the world.