249 réponses à ce sujet

[billy the squid]

leaguer of one wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

billy the squid wrote...


If you like saturday morning cartoon villany with all the finesse of a crayon drawing making the entire individual or organisation a grotesque characature, then no it's not a dumb idea. If you were aiming for a comic book villain twirling his moustache and planning world domination from his secret volcano lair then spot on. If you actually wanted to make it a believable, well thought out aspect then it's mind numbingly stupid.




^ This is what an example of a comedic villain is, this is what Cerberus turned into, and what DA2 did.

Please. I'm sorry but you got it wrong . With the  years of studying the workings of reaper tech says nothing suggest TIM would want to control the reapers and use them to as way to advance humanity? Or get indoctrinated trying to do it?

So the nanotech they took from reapers and studied, the husk experiments in ME1, the studing of  a reaper corpes, the vast collecting of reaper tech, and the start of experiments on live subject to see the evolution of indoctionations from before ME3 says TIM is not tring to study and take reaper tech as his own?
Let not for get the years of trying to find a way to gain a stable form of mind control to control the super weapon project cerberus came up with as well.

Please, a blind man can see that TIM is trying to take the reapers and there tech as his own. Heck, He was even the only one in the story to see they were just a bunch of out of control tools.


What your not getting that cerberus had done a mountain of horrible things in the series. And they all cover it out with the excuse of being morally grey. You don't think that is an issue? They crushed so many innocent people to there end and simple cover it up with the statement that they are moraly grey. And you beleived it? Then they do the same thing again in ME3 and suddenly they are saterday morning villians?
Sorry but you need to look at ther history more and stop being so gullible.


With the read templers is more then just bad for bad sake or  power of power sake. This is power to impose order.These are people who are willing go th the extreme to get an advantage in a war they are trying to impose order in. it added a question of how far one would go for victory. It's no different from Logian selling elves for slave to fund his war or him trying to assasinate the arl of red cliff for an advatage.

 Red Lyrium is inheritly a power up. The only reason why the templers use it is becuse it gives them a massive power up. Yes it has dire effects but the question comes up with the point whether the benifits are worth the risk of the faults. With it having that effect it not a bad issue to have being that they are at war and are trying to get as much as an advanatge as possible. The only reason the templars want it is because they are trying to win a war for order. That makes it not stupid to have it in the plot. The fact it's a choice to take it with a clear reason  they take it makes it not stupid to have it there.

Not every templer is the same. In fact the templar are divide with in themselves, it's not templar vs mage but factions of one side fight other factions. I never siad all templar would take red lyrium. It 's a choice not something that controls some one and makes the take it. Some will take it some won't...Like some templars with be pro mage, some will be pro chantry, some with be anti chantry and others with be red templars. No  all templars will be red templars. The fact it;s choice and a question of what some one would do to get an advantage makes it not stupid.

You need to think about much more nad not just to an assumption.

Behold your core fans BioWare, you can crap on a plate and call it ice cream and these people will attempt to justify it. It's like looking at a case of stockholm syndrome.

I think you should come back when you want to have a serious conversation. If you can't see red lyrium is a plot point about advanages then your blind. Also, if you don't like the fact it's there and feel it will ruin the plot, you should know at this point it's too late for them to change it . if you still don't like it you free to not play the game and not whine about it on this borad.

The day I have a serious conversation with someone who thinks DA2's plot was not a contrived mess and ME3's story was not riddled with contradictions and retcons is the day hell freezes over. 

They may very well not change it, I'm still going to criticise them for it. If you want to continue blowing smoke up their collective arse and telling them how great everything they do is, go ahead, but willfully wanting to ignore everything, that is your problem not mine, and you can't stop me from criticising them either. 

So deal with it.

Modifié par billy the squid, 28 septembre 2013 - 05:35 .

[Br3admax]

leaguer of one wrote...
1. How did "We already know Templars can be out of control "mean "even templar will be out of control"?

Seriously?

I did not say all of them will be out of control and Meredith is an example of it. Also, Meredith was not the only out of control templar in DA2. Some templare will be out of control, just how most left the chantry. They don't need red lyrium to be out of control.

Wut? Not only was this not the point, this is going agains your own argument. 

2. It's not pure spectulation. That's how it was explained how it worked from Virmire in ME1. Long time exposer= indoctrination...Every single time. And TIM is right next to a reaper corpse which was stated for ME2 can indoctrinate.

No. No not at all. None of these things were said. You're just making things up. It has never been explained that way, and there are even instances to contradict this.

Quit while you are behind. 

[leaguer of one]

billy the squid wrote...



The day I have a serious conversation with someone who thinks DA2's plot was not a contrived mess and ME3's story was not riddled with contradictions and retcons is the day hell freezes over. 

They may very well not change it, I'm still going to criticise them for it. If you want to continue blowing smoke up their collective arse and telling them how great everything they do is, go ahead, but willfully wanting to ignore everything, that is your problem not mine, and you can't stop me from criticising them either. 

So deal with it.

The fact that everything I said was not about prazing DA2 or ME3 plot and you stating it was ether means you did not read what I wrote or understand what I wrote.
Ether read what I wrote or try to understand it. 
Once you do, then try to have a serious conversation

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
1. How did "We already know Templars can be out of control "mean "even templar will be out of control"?

Seriously?

I did not say all of them will be out of control and Meredith is an example of it. Also, Meredith was not the only out of control templar in DA2. Some templare will be out of control, just how most left the chantry. They don't need red lyrium to be out of control.

Wut? Not only was this not the point, this is going agains your own argument. 

2. It's not pure spectulation. That's how it was explained how it worked from Virmire in ME1. Long time exposer= indoctrination...Every single time. And TIM is right next to a reaper corpse which was stated for ME2 can indoctrinate.

No. No not at all. None of these things were said. You're just making things up. It has never been explained that way, and there are even instances to contradict this.

Quit while you are behind. 

1. I'm saying templars were already out  out of control before red lyrium. Not every one them are but the fact that most abbandon the chantry means that most already are out of control.
Do get it now?

2.Wow, do I really have to post a video or quote from the Asari scientict form ME1 at Virmire...Did you play ME1? It made clear then. If you never saw it or played ME1 then go watch sceans form Virmire now.

[billy the squid]

leaguer of one wrote...

billy the squid wrote...



The day I have a serious conversation with someone who thinks DA2's plot was not a contrived mess and ME3's story was not riddled with contradictions and retcons is the day hell freezes over. 

They may very well not change it, I'm still going to criticise them for it. If you want to continue blowing smoke up their collective arse and telling them how great everything they do is, go ahead, but willfully wanting to ignore everything, that is your problem not mine, and you can't stop me from criticising them either. 

So deal with it.

The fact that everything I said was not about prazing DA2 or ME3 plot and you stating it was ether means you did not read what I wrote or understand what I wrote.
Ether read what I wrote or try to understand it. 
Once you do, then try to have a serious conversation

What planet are you living on? You simply disregarded any criticism of the writing and justified everything that the game did as part of the design. You're right, it's not praise it's sycophantic in nature.

Why would I have a serious conversation with a sycophant, or at least someone who is willfully delusional.

[Br3admax]

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
1. How did "We already know Templars can be out of control "mean "even templar will be out of control"?

Seriously?

I did not say all of them will be out of control and Meredith is an example of it. Also, Meredith was not the only out of control templar in DA2. Some templare will be out of control, just how most left the chantry. They don't need red lyrium to be out of control.

Wut? Not only was this not the point, this is going agains your own argument. 

2. It's not pure spectulation. That's how it was explained how it worked from Virmire in ME1. Long time exposer= indoctrination...Every single time. And TIM is right next to a reaper corpse which was stated for ME2 can indoctrinate.

No. No not at all. None of these things were said. You're just making things up. It has never been explained that way, and there are even instances to contradict this.

Quit while you are behind. 

1. I'm saying templars were already out  out of control before red lyrium. Not every one them are but the fact that most abbandon the chantry means that most already are out of control.
Do get it now?

2.Wow, do I really have to post a video or quote from the Asari scientict form ME1 at Virmire...Did you play ME1? It made clear then. If you never saw it or played ME1 then go watch sceans form Virmire now.

1. Wow. Just wow. I think you may have lost your argument in an effort to prove me wrong. Something you have failed at. You have changed your argument so many time that really, you are arguing three points at once with the same faulty logic that it must make absolute sense and that since BioWare put it there, it needed to be there. 

2. You trying to excuse bad writing by showing more bad writing gets you nowhere. People are constantly around reaper tech all the time. There is an entire series of weapons have been made from Reaper tech. An entire reaper was salveaged on the Citadel. Yet no indoctrination has accured, there is evidence to the contraryt that there must be constant daily contact, nothing says that this process has a time frame, nor does any of this have anything to do with a Cerberus team that you seem to know the daily schedule for. Again, quit now. 

[leaguer of one]

billy the squid wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

billy the squid wrote...



The day I have a serious conversation with someone who thinks DA2's plot was not a contrived mess and ME3's story was not riddled with contradictions and retcons is the day hell freezes over. 

They may very well not change it, I'm still going to criticise them for it. If you want to continue blowing smoke up their collective arse and telling them how great everything they do is, go ahead, but willfully wanting to ignore everything, that is your problem not mine, and you can't stop me from criticising them either. 

So deal with it.

The fact that everything I said was not about prazing DA2 or ME3 plot and you stating it was ether means you did not read what I wrote or understand what I wrote.
Ether read what I wrote or try to understand it. 
Once you do, then try to have a serious conversation

What planet are you living on? You simply disregarded any criticism of the writing and justified everything that the game did as part of the design. You're right, it's not praise it's sycophantic in nature.

Why would I have a serious conversation with a sycophant, or at least someone who is willfully delusional.

Because I 'm not disreguarding any critcism. I'm arguing on the point it's more complex then your making it out to be.

For example:The Mage templar war is n ot a just a case of mages vs templar. The chantry is in peices because it divided on direction with there mages and how to up hold attority while having the mages as a need resource. Many sides have different motivations and wants, Like how Vivvian is pro circle, How Ander's is anti circle, How Lamert is anti chantry , Evangeline in pro mage and Cassandra is pro chantry. They is more sides to this war then mage vs templar.

Because of how complex it is the motives for action will be equally varied. Added, the use of red lyrium is a choice. It does not make you use it, you have to choose to use it. And there is reason why a person in this complex war will use red lyrium because it is a power up. It makes them stonger. It can be seen as an advatage but it has dire effects. And because of that it will bring up arguements about it's use...Just like what happen with blood magic  form DAO and da2.

If we find out that we are only facing red templars and they are just doing what they are do to be antagonistic then you would have a point but there are too many side to this war to have that. Added, this is not the only war in the story. The fact red lyrium is a contriverisal power uo, like bood magic, that person can look to use becaue of this time of war makes it some thing that fits with the story being from DAO the question of what the player and/or characters would do to get an advantage in war . Remember, this is a series that allows the player to use blood of elven slaves to enhance themselves.

That's my point.

[Lokiwithrope]

I'm glad to see how most of this thread has been about good vs. good writing, and not Red Lyrium transforming people into monsters. Great stuff.

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
1. How did "We already know Templars can be out of control "mean "even templar will be out of control"?

Seriously?

I did not say all of them will be out of control and Meredith is an example of it. Also, Meredith was not the only out of control templar in DA2. Some templare will be out of control, just how most left the chantry. They don't need red lyrium to be out of control.

Wut? Not only was this not the point, this is going agains your own argument. 

2. It's not pure spectulation. That's how it was explained how it worked from Virmire in ME1. Long time exposer= indoctrination...Every single time. And TIM is right next to a reaper corpse which was stated for ME2 can indoctrinate.

No. No not at all. None of these things were said. You're just making things up. It has never been explained that way, and there are even instances to contradict this.

Quit while you are behind. 

1. I'm saying templars were already out  out of control before red lyrium. Not every one them are but the fact that most abbandon the chantry means that most already are out of control.
Do get it now?

2.Wow, do I really have to post a video or quote from the Asari scientict form ME1 at Virmire...Did you play ME1? It made clear then. If you never saw it or played ME1 then go watch sceans form Virmire now.

1. Wow. Just wow. I think you may have lost your argument in an effort to prove me wrong. Something you have failed at. You have changed your argument so many time that really, you are arguing three points at once with the same faulty logic that it must make absolute sense and that since BioWare put it there, it needed to be there. 

2. You trying to excuse bad writing by showing more bad writing gets you nowhere. People are constantly around reaper tech all the time. There is an entire series of weapons have been made from Reaper tech. An entire reaper was salveaged on the Citadel. Yet no indoctrination has accured, there is evidence to the contraryt that there must be constant daily contact, nothing says that this process has a time frame, nor does any of this have anything to do with a Cerberus team that you seem to know the daily schedule for. Again, quit now. 

1. You saying to me at no other tim in DA has templars are show to be out of control?

2./Facepalm....You just said statements from ME1 are bad writing.  You just said the explination of how indoctrination work in ME1 is bad writing.... Wow.

Point blink, you need to replay ME1. Added, the reaper tech found on the station was sheild to protect from indoctrination...That was explained form Leviathen.

[Br3admax]

Lol at this conversation. That contradicts itself and completely ad hominems and strawmans everything. And by the way, the phrase is "Point blank" not "Point blink."

I mean why should we even talk anymore. Your flawed reasoning is still flawed and you refuse to face the fact that it makes no sense by trying to beat it with a hammer until it does. And then when the writers make up crappy retcons like "You can shield from it, but only when we say so" you think that it is a proper reasoning. There is not point in continuing a circular conversation with those that are both deaf and blind.

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

Lol at this conversation. That contradicts itself and completely ad hominems and strawmans everything. And by the way, the phrase is "Point blank" not "Point blink."

I mean why should we even talk anymore. Your flawed reasoning is still flawed and you refuse to face the fact that it makes no sense by trying to beat it with a hammer until it does. And then when the writers make up crappy retcons like "You can shield from it, but only when we say so" you think that it is a proper reasoning. There is not point in continuing a circular conversation with those that are both deaf and blind.

Flawed reasoning.
1. You the one here who is ignoring the fact the templars have shown o be out of control with out red lyrium.  Da2 AND da Asunders prove you wrong in those cases. Templars have lost control and did horrible things many times.

2. Add with ME, you are ignoring clear point in the plot. Sorry, but saying the expliantion of how indoctrination works in ME1  is wrong does not make you look good.

[billy the squid]

leaguer of one wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

billy the squid wrote...



The day I have a serious conversation with someone who thinks DA2's plot was not a contrived mess and ME3's story was not riddled with contradictions and retcons is the day hell freezes over. 

They may very well not change it, I'm still going to criticise them for it. If you want to continue blowing smoke up their collective arse and telling them how great everything they do is, go ahead, but willfully wanting to ignore everything, that is your problem not mine, and you can't stop me from criticising them either. 

So deal with it.

The fact that everything I said was not about prazing DA2 or ME3 plot and you stating it was ether means you did not read what I wrote or understand what I wrote.
Ether read what I wrote or try to understand it. 
Once you do, then try to have a serious conversation

What planet are you living on? You simply disregarded any criticism of the writing and justified everything that the game did as part of the design. You're right, it's not praise it's sycophantic in nature.

Why would I have a serious conversation with a sycophant, or at least someone who is willfully delusional.

Because I 'm not disreguarding any critcism. I'm arguing on the point it's more complex then your making it out to be.

For example:The Mage templar war is n ot a just a case of mages vs templar. The chantry is in peices because it divided on direction with there mages and how to up hold attority while having the mages as a need resource. Many sides have different motivations and wants, Like how Vivvian is pro circle, How Ander's is anti circle, How Lamert is anti chantry , Evangeline in pro mage and Cassandra is pro chantry. They is more sides to this war then mage vs templar.

Because of how complex it is the motives for action will be equally varied. Added, the use of red lyrium is a choice. It does not make you use it, you have to choose to use it. And there is reason why a person in this complex war will use red lyrium because it is a power up. It makes them stonger. It can be seen as an advatage but it has dire effects. And because of that it will bring up arguements about it's use...Just like what happen with blood magic  form DAO and da2.

If we find out that we are only facing red templars and they are just doing what they are do to be antagonistic then you would have a point but there are too many side to this war to have that. Added, this is not the only war in the story. The fact red lyrium is a contriverisal power uo, like bood magic, that person can look to use becaue of this time of war makes it some thing that fits with the story being from DAO the question of what the player and/or characters would do to get an advantage in war . Remember, this is a series that allows the player to use blood of elven slaves to enhance themselves.

That's my point.

Yes you are, you ignored the issues in DA2 and ME3 with a proverbial handwave of "design" And no the points areen't complex at all, you're petty fogging the issue, and trotting out points which are all derived from the same crap writing and cack handed method used to create a conflict.

Anders blows up the Chantry because "thou must" Orsino goes bat crap crazy and Meredith goes nuts because "thou must" it's crap, lazy writing to crow bar in a decision which needs to be taken and another fight, and covered up with "Red Lyrium". ME3, a once covert organisation, suddenly becomes a galactic power with the ability to fight a conflict why? "Indoctrination" TIM becomes an antagonist "indoctrination"  it's a huge cilche and a poorly derived scribble that Walters trotted out and you can see it in the DLC for ME2

It's not compex at all, it comes down to Red Lyrium creates villains and indoctrination creates villans. That's it. Your point is asinine and simply goes round in circles without making any sense. Red Lyrium and Indoctrination are excuses used by the intellectually barren as a reason why stupid, senseless things happen and why characters behave like they lose their minds.

Modifié par billy the squid, 28 septembre 2013 - 06:44 .

[Br3admax]

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Lol at this conversation. That contradicts itself and completely ad hominems and strawmans everything. And by the way, the phrase is "Point blank" not "Point blink."

I mean why should we even talk anymore. Your flawed reasoning is still flawed and you refuse to face the fact that it makes no sense by trying to beat it with a hammer until it does. And then when the writers make up crappy retcons like "You can shield from it, but only when we say so" you think that it is a proper reasoning. There is not point in continuing a circular conversation with those that are both deaf and blind.

Flawed reasoning.
1. You the one here who is ignoring the fact the templars have shown o be out of control with out red lyrium.  Da2 AND da Asunders prove you wrong in those cases. Templars have lost control and did horrible things many times.

2. Add with ME, you are ignoring clear point in the plot. Sorry, but saying the expliantion of how indoctrination works in ME1  is wrong does not make you look good.

1. That statement was never made. Go back and read again.

2.What the **** does this even mean? That's not even the point of this discusion. Contradictions in the story over and over again is the point. 

[spirosz]

billy the squid wrote...

Red Lyrium and Indoctrination are excuses used by the intellectually barren as a reason why stupid, senseless things happen and why characters behave like they lose their minds.

They can be good excuses though, but it seems everything was falling back on those two and exclusively it seems.  

[Br3admax]

spirosz wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Red Lyrium and Indoctrination are excuses used by the intellectually barren as a reason why stupid, senseless things happen and why characters behave like they lose their minds.

They can be good excuses though, but it seems everything was falling back on those two and exclusively it seems.  

Yep. 

/thread-point

[leaguer of one]

billy the squid wrote...


Yes you are, you ignored the issues in DA2 and ME3 with a proverbial handwave of "design" And no the points areen't complex at all, you're petty fogging the issue, and trotting out points which are all derived from the same crap writing and cack handed method used to create a conflict.

Anders blows up the Chantry because "thou must" Orsino goes bat crap crazy and Meredith goes nuts because "thou must" it's crap, lazy writing to crow bar in a decision which needs to be taken and another fight, and covered up with "Red Lyrium". ME3, a once covert organisation, suddenly becomes a galactic power with the ability to fight a conflict why? "Indoctrination" TIM becomes an antagonist "indoctrination"  it's a huge cilche and a poorly derived scribble that Walters trotted out and you can see it in the DLC for ME2

It's not compex at all, it comes down to Red Lyrium creates villains and indoctrination creates villans. That's it. Your point is asinine and simply goes round in circles without making any sense. Red Lyrium and Indoctrination are excuses used by the intellectually barren as reason why stupid, senseless things happen and why characters behave like they lose their minds.

This has nothing to do with ME3 or da2. Those games, how they were done, and how you feel about them does not overide the fact that the situtation in DAI and how complex thing are going to be with the issue the player will face in the story. With the way everything is set up it's far too complex then you making it out to be. I'm not here to argue with your issues with da2 and me3. I arguing on the point it far too complex for it to be so simple. You are not arguing that it's a bad idea when you bring up me3 or da2. You trying to argue that they will mess up what they are doing in dai based on what you feel about those two games. That is bring this descusion off trake. There is no point to bring up your issues with the game here being that it's so bies that it ignores the issue on whether this is a good plot point or not over your issue with how bw wrote in the past.

Red lyrium is nothing like indoctrination. Why? Because using it is a choice. Indoctrination is and has always been shown to happen to the character no matter what the feel about. It's forced on them. The fact that there are so many sides to the templars in this war  and they are not all going to be red templar proves this point.

If you don't understand that then you need to re look and re think on the issue on had that is going to come up in dai.

[spirosz]

Tim dabbling in too much Reaper technology seems realistic that he would eventually fall under Reaper Indoctrination, so that works for me, but to have the foundation of Cerberus transfer into the lolevil scenario just seems like a waste of good opportunity.

[billy the squid]

spirosz wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Red Lyrium and Indoctrination are excuses used by the intellectually barren as a reason why stupid, senseless things happen and why characters behave like they lose their minds.

They can be good excuses though, but it seems everything was falling back on those two and exclusively it seems.  

Indoctrination was present in ME1, but it was used well. That's why I don't bring up ME1 in my criticism, the same with Cerberus, it was there in ME1, but Saren's indoctrination and Cerberus' behaviour wasn't buckets of crazy which it became in ME3. 

Red Lyrium has always been stupid, and it was used to justify all the stupid behaviour, along with "a weakened veil" *Ghostly voice* in DA2.

Iorveth and Vernon Roche have some incredibly hardline racial supremecist and xenophobic views, but neither of them are crazy, nor is Letho a complete lunatic, twirling his moustache and plotting world domination. He's not even the real antagonist, he serves someone else who doesn't even appear in the game.

Edit: best examples of sympathetic characters who can be complete bastards without given the "diabolical villain" treatment.

Modifié par billy the squid, 28 septembre 2013 - 06:59 .

[spirosz]

leaguer of one wrote...

how complex thing are going to be with the issue the player will face in the story. With the way everything is set up it's far too complex then you making it out to be. I arguing on the point it far too complex for it to be so simple. proves this point.

If you don't understand that then you need to re look and re think on the issue on had that is going to come up in dai.

Why do you keep arguining about those aspects being too complex, when they aren't? 

What.  

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Lol at this conversation. That contradicts itself and completely ad hominems and strawmans everything. And by the way, the phrase is "Point blank" not "Point blink."

I mean why should we even talk anymore. Your flawed reasoning is still flawed and you refuse to face the fact that it makes no sense by trying to beat it with a hammer until it does. And then when the writers make up crappy retcons like "You can shield from it, but only when we say so" you think that it is a proper reasoning. There is not point in continuing a circular conversation with those that are both deaf and blind.

Flawed reasoning.
1. You the one here who is ignoring the fact the templars have shown o be out of control with out red lyrium.  Da2 AND da Asunders prove you wrong in those cases. Templars have lost control and did horrible things many times.

2. Add with ME, you are ignoring clear point in the plot. Sorry, but saying the expliantion of how indoctrination works in ME1  is wrong does not make you look good.

1. That statement was never made. Go back and read again.

2.What the **** does this even mean? That's not even the point of this discusion. Contradictions in the story over and over again is the point. 

1. My for the entire time was that templar were shown to out of control with out red lyrium and you were arguing ageinst it....And now your saying you were saying somrthing else?
2. How does something stated in the foundation of the plot  contradicts the story. Form day 1 it was  reapers and reapers tech= indoctrination over time...Suddenly when it happens it's a contridiction?

[AresKeith]

spirosz wrote...

Tim dabbling in too much Reaper technology seems realistic that he would eventually fall under Reaper Indoctrination, so that works for me, but to have the foundation of Cerberus transfer into the lolevil scenario just seems like a waste of good opportunity.

Same with Red Lyrium too

[Br3admax]

spirosz wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

how complex thing are going to be with the issue the player will face in the story. With the way everything is set up it's far too complex then you making it out to be. I arguing on the point it far too complex for it to be so simple. proves this point.

If you don't understand that then you need to re look and re think on the issue on had that is going to come up in dai.

Why do you keep arguining about those aspects being too complex, when they aren't? 

What.  

Because he has no argument and needs to justify all the stupidity by saying that we don't get it. 

[Navasha]

I think Red Lyrium has a lot of potential to be a good addition to the story once we find out more about it. I understand the frustration of it showing up in DA2 as a convenient way of excusing Meredith's actions. However, I think that was simply sort of a foreshadowing moment for it.

I could see some potential storylines that could bring our understanding of lyrium (both red and blue) into focus.

I always got the impression that Dwarves were somehow originated below ground. Returning to the "Stone" when they died. What if that Stone that they always reference is Lyrium. Maybe its tied to the origin of the dwarves. Like the old Gaian mythology, where the souls return to the Earth.

Having Red Lyrium being the 'source' of the dwarves might make it a very interesting idea. Where do dwarven souls go when they die, since they don't pass into or through the fade?

[Br3admax]

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Lol at this conversation. That contradicts itself and completely ad hominems and strawmans everything. And by the way, the phrase is "Point blank" not "Point blink."

I mean why should we even talk anymore. Your flawed reasoning is still flawed and you refuse to face the fact that it makes no sense by trying to beat it with a hammer until it does. And then when the writers make up crappy retcons like "You can shield from it, but only when we say so" you think that it is a proper reasoning. There is not point in continuing a circular conversation with those that are both deaf and blind.

Flawed reasoning.
1. You the one here who is ignoring the fact the templars have shown o be out of control with out red lyrium.  Da2 AND da Asunders prove you wrong in those cases. Templars have lost control and did horrible things many times.

2. Add with ME, you are ignoring clear point in the plot. Sorry, but saying the expliantion of how indoctrination works in ME1  is wrong does not make you look good.

1. That statement was never made. Go back and read again.

2.What the **** does this even mean? That's not even the point of this discusion. Contradictions in the story over and over again is the point. 

1. My for the entire time was that templar were shown to out of control with out red lyrium and you were arguing ageinst it....And now your saying you were saying somrthing else?
2. How does something stated in the foundation of the plot  contradicts the story. Form day 1 it was  reapers and reapers tech= indoctrination over time...Suddenly when it happens it's a contridiction?

1. Really, continuing to talk is doing nothing for you. Go reread if you ctually believe that this statement made any sense.
2. "Forget all that nonsense in ME2 and ME3. ME didn't say it, so yeah just this." Stop talking. You really don't understand anything about Mass Effect lore or making a cohesive argument.