224 réponses à ce sujet

[Dubozz]

txgoldrush wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

The Catalyst solves nothing. In fact, it needs you (the player) to solve it's problem. That qualifies as a DEM? Hmm....

As I recall, it does solve its own problem. It just needs you to implement its solution.

No it doesn't, it CAN'T

The Catalyst tells you this.

That's right.  Because the Catalyst can't control the Reapers...

Wait 

It can't fire the Crucible, he tells you this.

It favors synthesis over the cycle, its ideal choice, more so than the cycle. The Catalyst can't do this. It needs Shepard and the Crucible.

He has everything but he cant use it. Yeah, Right. Sounds like something Mac Walters could write.. Wait a minute....

Or its just common sense.

He won't destroy himself.

He is already in control of the Reapers.

But he needs Shepard for synthesis, because he thinks he or she is ready and he needs his or her organic/synthetic makeup.

Plain and simple.

Yeah, sure, thats why Reapers  keep destroying the crucible during the conversation. Because he needs Shepard for synthesis! What a revelation! Plain and Simple! Also Artistic.

That has been changed in the Extended Cut, The Reapers no longer destroy the Crucible if you take too long,.

Wow, I guess I should applaud to Bioware for this gift. Great Job Bioware! Only 4 months to make it happen! Didn't they retcon "relays will be destroyed" as well by chance? Artistic no doubt.

So about synthesis(:wizard:)... this decision can't be forced right? So why did I force this decision upon the others? And how exactley "my energy will be added to the crucibles"? Is this like magic or something? And why I'am ready? 

[txgoldrush]

CynicalShep wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Tron Mega wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The entire point of the exchange is the Catalyst handing the choice over to Shepard willingly, because he acknowledges that Shepard knows or understands something he doesn't.

1) considering ME is a story built around choices, and every one of those choices is set to be black or white, doesnt it seem kindof weird that every shepard is considered "ready" by the catalyst?

2) why does parashep and reneshep both receive the same sort of acknowledgement from the catalyst, considering they are polar opposites.

"bioware logic"

1) Shepard is "ready" because he is both an organic and synthetic lifeform at that point in the game, who is proof to him that the organics can take synthetics as part of their life.

2) Because both Paragon and Renegade reject the Reaper plan.....the difference in treatment comes with EMS levels.

So two bolts and an implant make somebody a synthetic lifeform?

He can go into AI's can't he?

He goes into Overlord AI and the Geth Consensus, so yeah, he is partly synthetic.

[txgoldrush]

Dubozz wrote...


 Wow, I guess I should applaud to Bioware for this gift. Great Job Bioware! Only 4 months to make it happen! Didn't they retcon "relays will be destroyed" as well by chance? Artistic no doubt.

So about synthesis(:wizard:)... this decision can't be forced right? So why did I force this decision upon the others? And how exactley "my energy will be added to the crucibles"? Is this like magic or something? And why I'am ready? 

Don't like it.......don't pick it. Its that simple. Hell, Shepard either has an uneasy feeling or flat out rejects synthesis, That means Shepard is uncomfortable with the decision, even if he or she can potentially make it, Nevermind the fact that the Catalyst does not understand organic life, so he does not understand WHY someone would reject synthesis.

And no, they replaced the Game Over with the Refuse ending.

Once again, another basher who really does not get what is going on in the ending.

[KaiserShep]

txgoldrush wrote...

He can go into AI's can't he?

He goes into Overlord AI and the Geth Consensus, so yeah, he is partly synthetic.

You're making a false connection here. Shepard doesn't interface with the Overlord hybrid and the geth consensus on account of the cybernetic implants. This is never once indicated to be the reason in the game. Project Overlord, from the start, was designed to interface an organic mind to an artificial intelligence, which the geth then refined, allowing Shepard to interface with the consensus. Remember, it's never indicated that David Archer is augmented with implants to do this either. Shepard's brain is fully organic, and we have no real details on the implants or what they actually do.

Also, note that when Shepard and the team arrive to the server, Legion indicates that Shepard must go alone on account of the limitations of the hardware supporting more than one person, not because only he/she is capable of interfacing with it.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 29 septembre 2013 - 09:34 .

[Reorte]

txgoldrush wrote...

1) Shepard is "ready" because he is both an organic and synthetic lifeform at that point in the game, who is proof to him that the organics can take synthetics as part of their life.

Daft argument, may as well say we're "ready" now because the pacemaker has been invented.

[Dubozz]

txgoldrush wrote...

Dubozz wrote...


 Wow, I guess I should applaud to Bioware for this gift. Great Job Bioware! Only 4 months to make it happen! Didn't they retcon "relays will be destroyed" as well by chance? Artistic no doubt.

So about synthesis(:wizard:)... this decision can't be forced right? So why did I force this decision upon the others? And how exactley "my energy will be added to the crucibles"? Is this like magic or something? And why I'am ready  for this? 

Don't like it.......don't pick it. Its that simple. Hell, Shepard either has an uneasy feeling or flat out rejects synthesis, That means Shepard is uncomfortable with the decision, even if he or she can potentially make it, Nevermind the fact that the Catalyst does not understand organic life, so he does not understand WHY someone would reject synthesis.

And no, they replaced the Game Over with the Refuse ending.

Once again, another basher who really does not get what is going on in the ending.

What? Don't you want to explain me your vision? The beauty of the synthesis and starchild! Share your knowledge with me wise one! Show me the truth!

Modifié par Dubozz, 29 septembre 2013 - 09:36 .

[txgoldrush]

KaiserShep wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

He can go into AI's can't he?

He goes into Overlord AI and the Geth Consensus, so yeah, he is partly synthetic.

You're making a false connection here. Shepard doesn't interface with the Overlord hybrid and the geth consensus on account of the cybernetic implants. This is never once indicated to be the reason in the game. Project Overlord, from the start, was designed to interface an organic mind to an artificial intelligence, which the geth then refined, allowing Shepard to interface with the consensus. Remember, it's never indicated that David Archer is augmented with implants to do this either. Shepard's brain is fully organic, and we have no real details on the implants or what they actually do.

Also, note that when Shepard and the team arrive to the server, Legion indicates that Shepard must go alone on account of the limitations of the hardware supporting more than one person, not because only he/she is capable of interfacing with it.

Sorry, but the fact is David hacks Shepards implants. So him or her being partly synthetic does have something to do with his better understanding of AIs. This is not a false connection, its just not a full argument, as the Catalyst calling Shepard partly synthetic does carry more weight.

Don't forget David became a hybrid VI/ organic as well.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 29 septembre 2013 - 09:51 .

[txgoldrush]

Dubozz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dubozz wrote...


 Wow, I guess I should applaud to Bioware for this gift. Great Job Bioware! Only 4 months to make it happen! Didn't they retcon "relays will be destroyed" as well by chance? Artistic no doubt.

So about synthesis(:wizard:)... this decision can't be forced right? So why did I force this decision upon the others? And how exactley "my energy will be added to the crucibles"? Is this like magic or something? And why I'am ready  for this? 

Don't like it.......don't pick it. Its that simple. Hell, Shepard either has an uneasy feeling or flat out rejects synthesis, That means Shepard is uncomfortable with the decision, even if he or she can potentially make it, Nevermind the fact that the Catalyst does not understand organic life, so he does not understand WHY someone would reject synthesis.

And no, they replaced the Game Over with the Refuse ending.

Once again, another basher who really does not get what is going on in the ending.

What? Don't you want to explain me your vision? The beauty of the synthesis and starchild! Share your knowledge with me wise one! Show me the truth!

Why don't you stop being ignorant and pay attention to the narrative?

[KaiserShep]

That's conjecture. There's no evidence that the Lazarus implants are the reason why this is possible. You can assume that this is the reason, but there's simply no proof in the story, since no one anywhere states as such. It just happens without explanation. If you want to believe this is the case, that's fine, but don't pass it off as fact. As it is, unless a voice from on high (the actual writer) states that it was the implants, this is just headcanon.

The Catalyst's statement is a throwaway line that pretty much adds up to nothing in the end, because Shepard can clearly survive destroy if the EMS is high enough, so obviously, being partly synthetic has no bearing on his/her fate. Heck, Garrus is actually partly synthetic since ME2, since he was surgically grafted with cybernetics after the attack on Omega.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 29 septembre 2013 - 09:49 .

[Dubozz]

txgoldrush wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dubozz wrote...


 Wow, I guess I should applaud to Bioware for this gift. Great Job Bioware! Only 4 months to make it happen! Didn't they retcon "relays will be destroyed" as well by chance? Artistic no doubt.

So about synthesis(:wizard:)... this decision can't be forced right? So why did I force this decision upon the others? And how exactley "my energy will be added to the crucibles"? Is this like magic or something? And why I'am ready  for this? 

Don't like it.......don't pick it. Its that simple. Hell, Shepard either has an uneasy feeling or flat out rejects synthesis, That means Shepard is uncomfortable with the decision, even if he or she can potentially make it, Nevermind the fact that the Catalyst does not understand organic life, so he does not understand WHY someone would reject synthesis.

And no, they replaced the Game Over with the Refuse ending.

Once again, another basher who really does not get what is going on in the ending.

What? Don't you want to explain me your vision? The beauty of the synthesis and starchild! Share your knowledge with me wise one! Show me the truth!

Why don't you stop being ignorant and pay attention to the narrative?

I'm not ignorant, I just want to know what meds are you using. should I do to embace the Synthesis and wisdom of the endings! Apparently you are my only hope great one! Don't let me to rot in the darkness of uncertaincy and  speculations! Show me the light!

Modifié par Dubozz, 29 septembre 2013 - 10:04 .

[txgoldrush]

KaiserShep wrote...

That's conjecture. There's no evidence that the Lazarus implants are the reason why this is possible. You can assume that this is the reason, but there's simply no proof in the story, since no one anywhere states as such. It just happens without explanation. If you want to believe this is the case, that's fine, but don't pass it off as fact. As it is, unless a voice from on high (the actual writer) states that it was the implants, this is just headcanon.

The Catalyst's statement is a throwaway line that pretty much adds up to nothing in the end, because Shepard can clearly survive destroy if the EMS is high enough, so obviously, being partly synthetic has no bearing on his/her fate. Heck, Garrus is actually partly synthetic since ME2, since he was surgically grafted with cybernetics after the attack on Omega.

There is evidence, its just SHOWN and not TOLD.....not everything has to be told to you. He clearly hacks into Shepard to show him what went on.

Shepard survives high EMS destroy because those living of cybernetics to survive would survive the blast while full synthetic lifeforms don't, on lower EMS, its not the case. The Catalyst would then say all those relying on synthetics to survive will be lost.

And as for synthesis

"Synthetics are already a part of you, can you imagine your life without them?"

Modifié par txgoldrush, 29 septembre 2013 - 10:04 .

[txgoldrush]

Dubozz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dubozz wrote...


 Wow, I guess I should applaud to Bioware for this gift. Great Job Bioware! Only 4 months to make it happen! Didn't they retcon "relays will be destroyed" as well by chance? Artistic no doubt.

So about synthesis(:wizard:)... this decision can't be forced right? So why did I force this decision upon the others? And how exactley "my energy will be added to the crucibles"? Is this like magic or something? And why I'am ready  for this? 

Don't like it.......don't pick it. Its that simple. Hell, Shepard either has an uneasy feeling or flat out rejects synthesis, That means Shepard is uncomfortable with the decision, even if he or she can potentially make it, Nevermind the fact that the Catalyst does not understand organic life, so he does not understand WHY someone would reject synthesis.

And no, they replaced the Game Over with the Refuse ending.

Once again, another basher who really does not get what is going on in the ending.

What? Don't you want to explain me your vision? The beauty of the synthesis and starchild! Share your knowledge with me wise one! Show me the truth!

Why don't you stop being ignorant and pay attention to the narrative?

I'm not ignorant, I just want to know what meds are you using. should I do to embace the Synthesis and wisdom of the endings! Apparently you are my only hope great one! Don't let me to rot in the darkness of uncertaincy and  speculations! Show me the light!

I already told you.

Pay attention to the narrative.

[Dubozz]

Seriously though. I have no problems to understand the ending from the beginning, but do you think that understanding the ending makes it good? Do you think this is the best ending Bioware could come up with? I don't thinks so. So many thing in the ending is so repulsive and out of place for me, I don't even wanna play other mass effect games. There is no point. I hopped for so much more...even if they just copy/paste ME1/ME2 ending... ah whatever.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

rekn2 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

rekn2 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

The Catalyst solves nothing. In fact, it needs you (the player) to solve it's problem. That qualifies as a DEM? Hmm....

As I recall, it does solve its own problem. It just needs you to implement its solution.

No it doesn't, it CAN'T

The Catalyst tells you this.

It physically solve the problem itself. But it has theoretically solved the problem. All it needs you to do is jump into a beam. 

All it needs from you is to do an action. It solved its problem a long time ago as it says. 

he says ariables changed or some BS. something happened when shep went up the beam and also when the crucible was lol "inserted" into the citadel

True, but he also knew what the solution to his problem was. He just didn't have the tools for it.

but, HE was the problem

True enough, I do agree with you... but the Catalyst did have its own problem, and it knew its own solution. It needed the resources (the Crucible and Shepard) to activate it... That is, until my Shepard doesn't approve of the Catalyst's solution or its problem in the first place.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

The entire point of the exchange is the Catalyst handing the choice over to Shepard willingly, because he acknowledges that Shepard knows or understands something he doesn't.

That was never implied at all. I don't know where you saw it because it wasn't there. It knew what the solutions were and what they would do, but it couldn't activate them on its own. It gave Shepard a modicum of choice because he was the only one in a position to enact a solution.

[spockjedi]

I agree that the Catalyst is not a DEM. But it's something much worse.

[CynicalShep]

txgoldrush wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Tron Mega wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The entire point of the exchange is the Catalyst handing the choice over to Shepard willingly, because he acknowledges that Shepard knows or understands something he doesn't.

1) considering ME is a story built around choices, and every one of those choices is set to be black or white, doesnt it seem kindof weird that every shepard is considered "ready" by the catalyst?

2) why does parashep and reneshep both receive the same sort of acknowledgement from the catalyst, considering they are polar opposites.

"bioware logic"

1) Shepard is "ready" because he is both an organic and synthetic lifeform at that point in the game, who is proof to him that the organics can take synthetics as part of their life.

2) Because both Paragon and Renegade reject the Reaper plan.....the difference in treatment comes with EMS levels.

So two bolts and an implant make somebody a synthetic lifeform?

He can go into AI's can't he?

He goes into Overlord AI and the Geth Consensus, so yeah, he is partly synthetic.

I don't think this is how it works. Besides, it just doesn't make any sense. Can you explain how exactly Shepard is hacked by the AI?

[Tron Mega]

^
bioware: "well, like, the matrix was cool wasnt it?"

Modifié par Tron Mega, 29 septembre 2013 - 04:01 .

[txgoldrush]

spockjedi wrote...

I agree that the Catalyst is not a DEM. But it's something much worse.

Does not fit.

Much of the outcomes of the Crucible are foreshadowed.

The only bulletproof diabolus ex machina is the Citadel's sudden move to Earth.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 29 septembre 2013 - 06:27 .

[Br3admax]

spockjedi wrote...

I agree that the Catalyst is not a DEM. But it's something much worse.

Oh that's rich, I mean this nonsarcastically. I like the way you think. 

[Iakus]

spockjedi wrote...

I agree that the Catalyst is not a DEM. But it's something much worse.

"Likely to be employed by writers who believe that True Art Is Angsty. "



Oh, my, YES!!!!

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

spockjedi wrote...

I agree that the Catalyst is not a DEM. But it's something much worse.

"Likely to be employed by writers who believe that True Art Is Angsty. "



Oh, my, YES!!!!

If it were actually guilty of those, then Mass Effect 3 would be in good company---with both tropes!

You folks are endlessly amusing. 

[Mcfly616]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

The Catalyst solves nothing. In fact, it needs you (the player) to solve it's problem. That qualifies as a DEM? Hmm....

As I recall, it does solve its own problem. It just needs you to implement its solution.

no it didn't. Not even close. Just because it knows what the solution to it's problem is, doesn't mean it knows how to achieve it. Shepard and the Crucible make synthesis a possibility. Not the Catalyst.

[Reorte]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

The Catalyst solves nothing. In fact, it needs you (the player) to solve it's problem. That qualifies as a DEM? Hmm....

As I recall, it does solve its own problem. It just needs you to implement its solution.

no it didn't. Not even close. Just because it knows what the solution to it's problem is, doesn't mean it knows how to achieve it. Shepard and the Crucible make synthesis a possibility. Not the Catalyst.

Which makes no sense whatsoever.

[AlexMBrennan]

The Catalyst solves nothing

At the start of Priority Earth we had Big Dumb Object which we hoped would allow us to defeat the Reapers but no one has any clue how it might be used; we are also out of time - the Reapers are shooting at out doomsday weapon right now, and we have literally minutes before they win. The only guy to make it to the Citadel is near enough to death and never had a clue how to operate the doomsday weapon to begin with.

Then the big bad appears and hands us the missing piece we need to activate our otherwise completely useless doomsday weapon. Yeah, totally not a DEM.
Shepard really earned having the big bad hand him victory for no reason at all.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 29 septembre 2013 - 09:51 .