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[Blackrising]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's simply really easy for me to accept because I'm the same way. I'm attracted to girls 99% of the time, but god damn me if one of them sexy muscular beasts couldn't make me fall to my knees. (Wait, that just sounded way more dirty than I intended...)

Keep in mind that any one of them would far prefer to simply bisect you with a huge sword.

I personally have never once heard that line from Merrill and wonder if it might have been patched out of the game or something. If it exists, well, I disagree with the fiend's interpretation of context.

(Not gonna make a cheap joke about their huge sword, not gonna make a...)
Alas, 'tis a risk I will have to live with.

The line still exists, at least in the up-to-date XBox version.

[Xilizhra]

Blackrising wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's simply really easy for me to accept because I'm the same way. I'm attracted to girls 99% of the time, but god damn me if one of them sexy muscular beasts couldn't make me fall to my knees. (Wait, that just sounded way more dirty than I intended...)

Keep in mind that any one of them would far prefer to simply bisect you with a huge sword.

I personally have never once heard that line from Merrill and wonder if it might have been patched out of the game or something. If it exists, well, I disagree with the fiend's interpretation of context.

(Not gonna make a cheap joke about their huge sword, not gonna make a...)
Alas, 'tis a risk I will have to live with.

The line still exists, at least in the up-to-date XBox version.

Merrill, have better taste. Oh well, at least I never need actually worry about her.

Maybe it doesn't exist if she's romanced?

[Former_Fiend]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's simply really easy for me to accept because I'm the same way. I'm attracted to girls 99% of the time, but god damn me if one of them sexy muscular beasts couldn't make me fall to my knees. (Wait, that just sounded way more dirty than I intended...)

Keep in mind that any one of them would far prefer to simply bisect you with a huge sword.

I personally have never once heard that line from Merrill and wonder if it might have been patched out of the game or something. If it exists, well, I disagree with the fiend's interpretation of context.

I suppose it may have been patched out(it's been well over a year since I've played, though I'm planning on starting another playthrough soon). I don't see why it would have been, though.

Admittedly it's a throwaway line of dialogue you get when, if I remember correctly, walking by the former qunari compound in act 3. Not prompted at all and no one responds to it, just an offhand remark by her.


In truth, before it was brought into question in this thread, I never doubted for a minute that it was meant to imply Merrill was attracted to the qunari. It completely fits with her covert pervert personality and, while this may be a stretch, I thought it was a humorous callback to Morrigan's attraction to Sten.

[Former_Fiend]

Xilizhra wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's simply really easy for me to accept because I'm the same way. I'm attracted to girls 99% of the time, but god damn me if one of them sexy muscular beasts couldn't make me fall to my knees. (Wait, that just sounded way more dirty than I intended...)

Keep in mind that any one of them would far prefer to simply bisect you with a huge sword.

I personally have never once heard that line from Merrill and wonder if it might have been patched out of the game or something. If it exists, well, I disagree with the fiend's interpretation of context.

(Not gonna make a cheap joke about their huge sword, not gonna make a...)
Alas, 'tis a risk I will have to live with.

The line still exists, at least in the up-to-date XBox version.

Merrill, have better taste. Oh well, at least I never need actually worry about her.

Maybe it doesn't exist if she's romanced?

I was romancing her as a FemHawke when I heard it.

[Vapaa]

Blackrising wrote...
"Does the character like apples or oranges?"
"Don't know, whatever they're in the mood for, I guess?"
"But they gotta like one of those!"
"I...both?"
"But they never gave any indication to eating both! That one time in Act 2, Quest #445, they said, and I quote, "That apple looks very red and shiny". That must make them an apple lover!"
"So? Doesn't mean they don't eat oranges, too."
"Then why have we never seen them eating an orange?"
"Because Kirkwall lacks tasty-looking oranges?"
"No no, that doesn't make sense. There are way more people who like apples than people who like oranges. It is only logical for that character to only like apples as well."
"It's just one character. They don't represent all of Thedas."
"But it doesn't make sense for every character to always like whatever fruit the main character has!"
"It's not every character. It's just four out of the entire population of Thedas."
"Why can't they just decide which fruit they like? Apples or oranges? Or both? it breaks my immersion when a character does not explicitely state what they like!"
"Maybe they just don't give a fu** which fruit they eat as long as it's tasty?"
"Pfft, figures. Y'all dirty fruit-lovers just want to see pixels eating your fruit, even though it destroys the pixels' character."
"...Huh?"

It pretty much boils down to this, only the reality is far more tedious without the apples and oranges

How on earth can you live without a shiny label plastered on your forhead so everyone knows WHAT you are....and how dare you change, because nothing ever changes, especially not people

[Xilizhra]

In truth, before it was brought into question in this thread, I never doubted for a minute that it was meant to imply Merrill was attracted to the qunari. It completely fits with her covert pervert personality and, while this may be a stretch, I thought it was a humorous callback to Morrigan's attraction to Sten.

Well, new wondrous lines of thought have now been opened to you. Especially if what Gaider said about playersexuality was ever intended to be truthful.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 02 octobre 2013 - 12:43 .

[Former_Fiend]

Xilizhra wrote...

In truth, before it was brought into question in this thread, I never doubted for a minute that it was meant to imply Merrill was attracted to the qunari. It completely fits with her covert pervert personality and, while this may be a stretch, I thought it was a humorous callback to Morrigan's attraction to Sten.

Well, new wondrous lines of thought have now been opened to you. Especially if what Gaider said about playersexuality was ever intended to be truthful.

Upon having carefully considered said new lines of thought, I have decided to retain my original interpretation, on the grounds I find it more amusing.

[Xilizhra]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In truth, before it was brought into question in this thread, I never doubted for a minute that it was meant to imply Merrill was attracted to the qunari. It completely fits with her covert pervert personality and, while this may be a stretch, I thought it was a humorous callback to Morrigan's attraction to Sten.

Well, new wondrous lines of thought have now been opened to you. Especially if what Gaider said about playersexuality was ever intended to be truthful.

Upon having carefully considered said new lines of thought, I have decided to retain my original interpretation, on the grounds I find it more amusing.

I just find it annoying, so I'll go with mine.

[Former_Fiend]

Xilizhra wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In truth, before it was brought into question in this thread, I never doubted for a minute that it was meant to imply Merrill was attracted to the qunari. It completely fits with her covert pervert personality and, while this may be a stretch, I thought it was a humorous callback to Morrigan's attraction to Sten.

Well, new wondrous lines of thought have now been opened to you. Especially if what Gaider said about playersexuality was ever intended to be truthful.

Upon having carefully considered said new lines of thought, I have decided to retain my original interpretation, on the grounds I find it more amusing.

I just find it annoying, so I'll go with mine.

Fair enough, and to each their own.

[Xilizhra]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In truth, before it was brought into question in this thread, I never doubted for a minute that it was meant to imply Merrill was attracted to the qunari. It completely fits with her covert pervert personality and, while this may be a stretch, I thought it was a humorous callback to Morrigan's attraction to Sten.

Well, new wondrous lines of thought have now been opened to you. Especially if what Gaider said about playersexuality was ever intended to be truthful.

Upon having carefully considered said new lines of thought, I have decided to retain my original interpretation, on the grounds I find it more amusing.

I just find it annoying, so I'll go with mine.

Fair enough, and to each their own.

In general, if someone is supposedly bisexual but only demonstrates attraction to the other sex outside of romance, it bugs the hell out of me, and DA2 LIs have a perennial problem with this.

[Former_Fiend]

Xilizhra wrote...


In general, if someone is supposedly bisexual but only demonstrates attraction to the other sex outside of romance, it bugs the hell out of me, and DA2 LIs have a perennial problem with this.

Well, and I mentioned this earlier in the thread, I'd have liked it if Merrill had lines about finding women attractive as well. As it stands, I'm willing to accept that Hawke is the only woman in Merrill's (extremely limited) social circle who's her type.

[Xilizhra]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


In general, if someone is supposedly bisexual but only demonstrates attraction to the other sex outside of romance, it bugs the hell out of me, and DA2 LIs have a perennial problem with this.

Well, and I mentioned this earlier in the thread, I'd have liked it if Merrill had lines about finding women attractive as well. As it stands, I'm willing to accept that Hawke is the only woman in Merrill's (extremely limited) social circle who's her type.

And as it stands, the other dialogue is still too annoying in any "attraction" interpretation for me to accept.

[Last Darkness]

 I liked some romances and disliked others, in Bioware games some of the romances feel natural and belivable while others seem forced and just put there to appeal to fans.

I liked the Leira romance in ME series if you kept it all the way through. Same in DA I liked the Morrigan romance while I felt the Leilana one wasnt as deep and the Zevran one more fan service. (Alistair was a great romance too but the whole thing of putting on the throne really burned alot of people)

[Taura-Tierno]

Last Darkness wrote...

 I liked some romances and disliked others, in Bioware games some of the romances feel natural and belivable while others seem forced and just put there to appeal to fans.

I liked the Leira romance in ME series if you kept it all the way through. Same in DA I liked the Morrigan romance while I felt the Leilana one wasnt as deep and the Zevran one more fan service. (Alistair was a great romance too but the whole thing of putting on the throne really burned alot of people)

I think that goes to show that they're generally doing a great job. I did not like the Morrigan romance a lot (I didn't hate it, though). I never did the Leliana romance at all because it didn't interest me. I did like the Zevran romance though; to me that was far more than some fanservice, once you got involved enough in it. 

[spartanmax52000]

Bionuts wrote...

Qunari females would fit my fetish perfectly.

Large Pointy Ears (love big ears)
Muscular
Horns
Muscular
Muscular
Muscular
Muscular

Me too(High five!!)
I hope we can have a Female Qunari party member and also potential L.I
Im gonna play as Warrior human male Inquisitor.

Modifié par spartanmax52000, 02 octobre 2013 - 03:49 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Thank you for keeping the thread civil everyone.

[In Exile]

Corvus I wrote...
I know that Bio is capable of this as there are glimmers of it throughout DAO. When the warden turns around to see Wynne has fallen is a good example. Leliana before she sings the eleven song is another. Morrigan when she says, “Why do you pester me?”. These facials and body language say more than any dialogue that the writers can come up with.

The implementation problem (so far) is that no one has come up with a good way to control body language. Bioware talked about a "reaction wheel" at some point re: concepts to be implemented in DA:I so that might get us some of the way there... but getting body language, and getting what it means right is tricky.

And getting it to work cross-culturally is even tricker. But even if we assume the cultural stuff isn't a problem, the implementation would be.

But think about something like a woman twirling her hair around her finger. At least in Canada that's considered potentially indicative of flirting, but to get that mechanically in-game would be very difficult. Another potential indicator of flriting is something like "mirroring" (i.e., copycat body language or posture) which is also hard to do. Eye contact is a big one too, but you don't have a clear LOS. And touch is hard to do (oh, god, clipping!). 

Edit:

And even if the game did invest in doing all these things, frankly I don't think the cost is worth it. 

Modifié par In Exile, 02 octobre 2013 - 04:12 .

[Last Darkness]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...

 I liked some romances and disliked others, in Bioware games some of the romances feel natural and belivable while others seem forced and just put there to appeal to fans.

I liked the Leira romance in ME series if you kept it all the way through. Same in DA I liked the Morrigan romance while I felt the Leilana one wasnt as deep and the Zevran one more fan service. (Alistair was a great romance too but the whole thing of putting on the throne really burned alot of people)

I think that goes to show that they're generally doing a great job. I did not like the Morrigan romance a lot (I didn't hate it, though). I never did the Leliana romance at all because it didn't interest me. I did like the Zevran romance though; to me that was far more than some fanservice, once you got involved enough in it. 

The romances play out differantly depending on play style and 'investment', while yes you can really focus on one quickly to get results on all of them its alot more rewarding to take you time on.  In one of the plays I did as a mage that I dont like I remember romancing and sleeping with Morrigan as early as Lothering. While in my favorite path it didnt happen till after two major events(Orzamaar then Mage Tower, for the secret Ohgren content) and it felt alot more meaningful how upset she gets when she starts loving you. I remember this best.

[zMataxa]

In Exile wrote...

Corvus I wrote...
I know that Bio is capable of this as there are glimmers of it throughout DAO. When the warden turns around to see Wynne has fallen is a good example. Leliana before she sings the eleven song is another. Morrigan when she says, “Why do you pester me?”. These facials and body language say more than any dialogue that the writers can come up with.

The implementation problem (so far) is that no one has come up with a good way to control body language. Bioware talked about a "reaction wheel" at some point re: concepts to be implemented in DA:I so that might get us some of the way there... but getting body language, and getting what it means right is tricky.

And getting it to work cross-culturally is even tricker. But even if we assume the cultural stuff isn't a problem, the implementation would be.
(snip)

Edit:

And even if the game did invest in doing all these things, frankly I don't think the cost is worth it. 

___________

I share Corvus' appreciation of what has been achieved so far.
I would say those moments exist in both the  DA and the ME series.
AND Iwould argue that they ADD hugely to the experience for  anyone who loves visual cues.
I wouldn't worry about "getting it all now...nor the clipping (if it doesn't look too brutal)"
Just add a few more layers as techno/tricks/rezsources allow.

Point being - it doesn't have to be "all or none".
Different degrees of immersion can be totally worth the cost - depending on the target audience and story objectives.
It's a slow evolutionary thing - just like human race advancement.

[Taura-Tierno]

Last Darkness wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...

 I liked some romances and disliked others, in Bioware games some of the romances feel natural and belivable while others seem forced and just put there to appeal to fans.

I liked the Leira romance in ME series if you kept it all the way through. Same in DA I liked the Morrigan romance while I felt the Leilana one wasnt as deep and the Zevran one more fan service. (Alistair was a great romance too but the whole thing of putting on the throne really burned alot of people)

I think that goes to show that they're generally doing a great job. I did not like the Morrigan romance a lot (I didn't hate it, though). I never did the Leliana romance at all because it didn't interest me. I did like the Zevran romance though; to me that was far more than some fanservice, once you got involved enough in it. 

The romances play out differantly depending on play style and 'investment', while yes you can really focus on one quickly to get results on all of them its alot more rewarding to take you time on.  In one of the plays I did as a mage that I dont like I remember romancing and sleeping with Morrigan as early as Lothering. While in my favorite path it didnt happen till after two major events(Orzamaar then Mage Tower, for the secret Ohgren content) and it felt alot more meaningful how upset she gets when she starts loving you. I remember this best.

Certainly. I just never cared enough about some of the companions that I felt I wanted to play a romance with them. Or, rather ... I liked some of them so much that I wanted to play through various games with them instead. Like in DA2, where I went for two romances with Fenris, one friendly and one rival, simply because I liked him so much. And I found Anders annoying, so I never used him unless I had to - although I'm quite sure his romance is very well-written, as well.

[Angrywolves]

I guess the guy who was complaining left.
Schumacher explains it all rotfl.I am surprised this thread is still going and is so civil.
I think the playsexual stuff is over and glad of it.
Also likely over, more than one romance per game.
If you get one going in DAI and it ends, either due to the player or the Li, it's unlikely imo that the Inquisitor will be able to successfully consumate another romance with a different Li, but that's just my opinion.

[Versus Omnibus]

Blackrising wrote...

I have no problem with your interpretation, since I always simply assumed the LIs were all pan or at least open to either gender in some way.
It's simply really easy for me to accept because I'm the same way. I'm attracted to girls 99% of the time, but god damn me if one of them sexy muscular beasts couldn't make me fall to my knees. (Wait, that just sounded way more dirty than I intended...)

That's why discussions about sexuality and how it should be set often confuse me. Labels in general are weird to me. Always have been. I love who I love and I lust after who I lust after. Why should I care what that makes me?

"Does the character like apples or oranges?"
"Don't know, whatever they're in the mood for, I guess?"
"But they gotta like one of those!"
"I...both?"
"But they never gave any indication to eating both! That one time in Act 2, Quest #445, they said, and I quote, "That apple looks very red and shiny". That must make them an apple lover!"
"So? Doesn't mean they don't eat oranges, too."
"Then why have we never seen them eating an orange?"
"Because Kirkwall lacks tasty-looking oranges?"
"No no, that doesn't make sense. There are way more people who like apples than people who like oranges. It is only logical for that character to only like apples as well."
"It's just one character. They don't represent all of Thedas."
"But it doesn't make sense for every character to always like whatever fruit the main character has!"
"It's not every character. It's just four out of the entire population of Thedas."
"Why can't they just decide which fruit they like? Apples or oranges? Or both? it breaks my immersion when a character does not explicitely state what they like!"
"Maybe they just don't give a fu** which fruit they eat as long as it's tasty?"
"Pfft, figures. Y'all dirty fruit-lovers just want to see pixels eating your fruit, even though it destroys the pixels' character."
"...Huh?"

And that's what every discussion here sounds like to me.
(Mind you, that's merely my personal opinion. I'm sure you lot see it plenty different.)

This has got to be one of the best posts I've seen on BSN. 

Anyway, I've never had a problem with the LI being player sexual. In fact, it makes sense: you already have a limited number of romance options, so you would want those options to cover as much players as possible. Is it realistic? No. But to be honest, if you want realism, watch a movie.

[Taura-Tierno]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

I have no problem with your interpretation, since I always simply assumed the LIs were all pan or at least open to either gender in some way.
It's simply really easy for me to accept because I'm the same way. I'm attracted to girls 99% of the time, but god damn me if one of them sexy muscular beasts couldn't make me fall to my knees. (Wait, that just sounded way more dirty than I intended...)

That's why discussions about sexuality and how it should be set often confuse me. Labels in general are weird to me. Always have been. I love who I love and I lust after who I lust after. Why should I care what that makes me?

"Does the character like apples or oranges?"
"Don't know, whatever they're in the mood for, I guess?"
"But they gotta like one of those!"
"I...both?"
"But they never gave any indication to eating both! That one time in Act 2, Quest #445, they said, and I quote, "That apple looks very red and shiny". That must make them an apple lover!"
"So? Doesn't mean they don't eat oranges, too."
"Then why have we never seen them eating an orange?"
"Because Kirkwall lacks tasty-looking oranges?"
"No no, that doesn't make sense. There are way more people who like apples than people who like oranges. It is only logical for that character to only like apples as well."
"It's just one character. They don't represent all of Thedas."
"But it doesn't make sense for every character to always like whatever fruit the main character has!"
"It's not every character. It's just four out of the entire population of Thedas."
"Why can't they just decide which fruit they like? Apples or oranges? Or both? it breaks my immersion when a character does not explicitely state what they like!"
"Maybe they just don't give a fu** which fruit they eat as long as it's tasty?"
"Pfft, figures. Y'all dirty fruit-lovers just want to see pixels eating your fruit, even though it destroys the pixels' character."
"...Huh?"

And that's what every discussion here sounds like to me.
(Mind you, that's merely my personal opinion. I'm sure you lot see it plenty different.)

This has got to be one of the best posts I've seen on BSN. 

Anyway, I've never had a problem with the LI being player sexual. In fact, it makes sense: you already have a limited number of romance options, so you would want those options to cover as much players as possible. Is it realistic? No. But to be honest, if you want realism, watch a movie.

I agree. That was an awesome post! ^^

[SirGladiator]

[quote]Taura-Tierno wrote...

[quote]Versus Omnibus wrote...

[quote]Blackrising wrote...

I have no problem with your interpretation, since I always simply assumed the LIs were all pan or at least open to either gender in some way.
It's simply really easy for me to accept because I'm the same way. I'm attracted to girls 99% of the time, but god damn me if one of them sexy muscular beasts couldn't make me fall to my knees. (Wait, that just sounded way more dirty than I intended...)

That's why discussions about sexuality and how it should be set often confuse me. Labels in general are weird to me. Always have been. I love who I love and I lust after who I lust after. Why should I care what that makes me?

"Does the character like apples or oranges?"
"Don't know, whatever they're in the mood for, I guess?"
"But they gotta like one of those!"
"I...both?"
"But they never gave any indication to eating both! That one time in Act 2, Quest #445, they said, and I quote, "That apple looks very red and shiny". That must make them an apple lover!"
"So? Doesn't mean they don't eat oranges, too."
"Then why have we never seen them eating an orange?"
"Because Kirkwall lacks tasty-looking oranges?"
"No no, that doesn't make sense. There are way more people who like apples than people who like oranges. It is only logical for that character to only like apples as well."
"It's just one character. They don't represent all of Thedas."
"But it doesn't make sense for every character to always like whatever fruit the main character has!"
"It's not every character. It's just four out of the entire population of Thedas."
"Why can't they just decide which fruit they like? Apples or oranges? Or both? it breaks my immersion when a character does not explicitely state what they like!"
"Maybe they just don't give a fu** which fruit they eat as long as it's tasty?"
"Pfft, figures. Y'all dirty fruit-lovers just want to see pixels eating your fruit, even though it destroys the pixels' character."
"...Huh?"

And that's what every discussion here sounds like to me.
(Mind you, that's merely my personal opinion. I'm sure you lot see it plenty different.)

[/quote]


This has got to be one of the best posts I've seen on BSN. 

Anyway, I've never had a problem with the LI being player sexual. In fact, it makes sense: you already have a limited number of romance options, so you would want those options to cover as much players as possible. Is it realistic? No. But to be honest, if you want realism, watch a movie.
[/quote]

I agree. That was an awesome post! ^^

I agree also, that was a great way of putting it.  It's clear the vast majority of people agree with that, I've been playing SR4 recently and was pleasantly surprised to learn that they had multiple LIs, all of whom were available to the player without restrictions.  Of course there are many other such games that do things the DA2 way, Skyrim being perhaps the most notable example, it seems that pretty much all the new games that have LIs have them without restrictions, which is as it should be.  It's just tremendous fun playing the game knowing that there aren't any limitations, you can romance whoever you like the best.  That's why it's become the norm in gaming, because it's the only way to do it that's fun for everyone.  Any other way results in some people being happy and others being unhappy, and making people unhappy for no reason makes no sense, which is why nobody is doing it anymore.  Hopefully we've seen the last of artificial limitations on LIs in gaming, certainly it's likely we have in the DA series, and that's fantastic.