2497 réponses à ce sujet

[Reaverwind]

Suprez30 wrote...

I enjoyed when he talked about how the Warden mage is ''protected'' from what most mage has to go through. SO we can't really ''connect'' with the reality of most mage because we're the HERO.

For instance we can be a blood mage and nothing bad will happens to us. The same way we can use templar abilities, but we do not need lyrium and do not get addicted to it. because we're the hero.


Changing it would be sweet. Using blood magic having repercusion or using magery in a city. It's the same though as we know our hero won't die until the very end. So we know we can't fail and die horribly. We're protected by armor plot and thus choice are easy to take because we can't really fail them. It's easier to make choice when  we know nothing really bad might happens to our hero. At worse we can just reload a save game..


I would love a ''hardcore'' mode with only 1 save slot and permanent death.

As long as that hardcore mode is optional. While I support implementing consequences for player choice, I strongly disagree those consequences should be implemented through limiting savegames. i've played too many CRPG's where failing to keep multiple saves meant having to restart due to some stupid bug or glitch.

[Herr Uhl]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

No matter how you dice it, sloth demon ends up dead and the Warden stays alive and unpossessed.  I'm calling that demon successfully resisted.  That it was a long grueling fight that the Warden was losing at first is pretty irrelevant.  She resisted it and killed it *and* freed everyone else it was trying to control.  Also, bear in mind that that scenario plays out the same for non mage Wardens which is probably why there isn't much focus on direct possession.   I'm not even defending the Harrowing exactly as is or claiming it's the best solution.  I'm just saying if you are trying to undermine its effectivness with one example, this exmaple isn't a good one.  

Niall went through the Harrowing. He died.

[ScarMK]

Suprez30 wrote...

I would love a ''hardcore'' mode with only 1 save slot and permanent death.

You can do that now.   Only use one slot for all your saves and don't hit that reload button when you die.

[Vicious]

Ukki wrote...

Mages going back to circles is such a lame way to go about it. Usually revolt means that there is only one way to go, victory or defeat. Loosers en up in graves. History has proven that there hardly is middle ground in such extreme situations. Slaves usually do not like to have the collar installed back to their necks even the slave trader promised not to use whip anymore, unless he really really have to.

The Circles are done, defunct, not coming back thanks to the distrust and murders perpetrated by both sides. The Inquisition is a revival of the proto-templar organization that protected Mages and regular folk alike from Demons. (source world of thedas) As Thrask said in DA2, side by side against the enemies of all is how it was and how it was supposed to be.

Everything bad that happened in Kirkwall, the mage templar war, who benefits? Demons. and the rip in the veil is the proof.

Modifié par Vicious, 30 septembre 2013 - 08:29 .

[Vicious]

I'm actually trying to think of an instance where a mage passes their harrowing and later becomes an abomination through forcible possession (rather than choice such as Orsino). I'm sure there are some, but I can't think of any. Uldred?

I don't think Uldred was forced, more like he accepted the deal Pride gave him.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Vicious wrote...

I'm actually trying to think of an instance where a mage passes their harrowing and later becomes an abomination through forcible possession (rather than choice such as Orsino). I'm sure there are some, but I can't think of any. Uldred?

I don't think Uldred was forced, more like he accepted the deal Pride gave him.

From what i renember uldred summoned demon and you know that ended up badly but i can be wrong.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Uldred screamed in terror as his last action before his possession. Doesn't really sound voluntary to me.

[MWImexico]

Since he became an abomination, Uldred has killed / contaminated a lot of other mages. Maybe it's the same for the sloth demon who killed Niall, this demon was already an abomination when the warden and Niall meet him. It's like the victims of lady hariman, her daughter and husband are sacrificed but it's lady hariman who made the deal.

Also, about the Harrowing and the possessions, perhaps sometimes it's not as obvious as say "yes"? Perhaps sometimes the mage accept something, a proposition, a situation, without realising he's actually making a deal? Merill feared to be possessed by audacity, yet she didn't go to his cave thinking "ok i'll say yes". I suppose the demons exploit some weaknesses already present in the mage. For exemple :

Pride : I know demons are dangerous, but I need help, anyways I can handle it. I won't be tricked.
Fear: I know demons are dangerous, but I'm so scared, maybe if I cooperate ...? Please someone help me!
Rage: I hate those templars / seniors, if only I was more powerfull, I'll show them.
Audacity : I know it's dangerous, but the prize. It is worth it.
Sloth: It's to much efforts, I'm not against a little help, or a lot.

That doesn't mean though that a good training is not effective to prevent such failures. I guess willpower has it's part to play, does Isabela betray you in the fade if she likes you enough? if she doesn't then anything is possible XD

Modifié par MWImexico, 30 septembre 2013 - 09:13 .

[cjones91]

MWImexico wrote...

Since he became an abomination, Uldred has killed / contaminated a lot of other mages. Maybe it's the same for the sloth demon who killed Niall, this demon was already an abomination when the warden and Niall meet him. It's like the victims of lady hariman, her daughter and husband are sacrificed but it's lady hariman who made the deal.

Also, about the Harrowing and the possessions, perhaps sometimes it's not as obvious as say "yes"? Perhaps sometimes the mage accept something, a proposition, a situation, without realising he's actually making a deal? Merill feared to be possessed by audacity, yet she didn't go to his cave thinking "ok i'll say yes". I suppose the demons exploit some weaknesses already present in the mage. For exemple :

Pride : I know demons are dangerous, but I need help, anyways I can handle it. I won't be tricked.
Fear: I know demons are dangerous, but I'm so scared, maybe if I cooperate ...? Please someone help me!
Rage: I hate those templars / seniors, if only I was more powerfull, I'll show them.
Audacity : I know it's dangerous, but the prize. It is worth it.
Sloth: It's to much efforts, I'm not against a little help, or a lot.

That doesn't mean though that a good training is not effective to prevent such failures. I guess willpower has it's part to play, does Isabela betray you in the fade if she likes you enough? if she doesn't then anything is possible XD

All the DA2 companions betray you no matter what during the Fade sequence,the only one who does'nt is Anders which is why I always bring him along.Also I don' t think there any demons labelled Audacity.

Modifié par cjones91, 30 septembre 2013 - 09:26 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

Wulfram wrote...

Firstly, what you quote was not written by Mr Gaider I believe. He got it off tumblr and then posted stuff in response.

Bioware spent large chunks of DA2 hammering us on the head with "MAGES ARE DANGEROUS" and "TEVINTER IS EVIL BECAUSE MAGES" messages. I hope this isn't repeated in DAI.

Thinking that both sides have a point is still very much taking a view, and it's not very fun having the game spend it's time beating it into us because they think our western biases stop us from understanding the issue properly or whatever.

I still blame the dropped ball on this. Bioware pulled a Bethesda and left a plot point as a series of codex entries and a relatively minor quest. The Veil in Kirkwall is torn to shreds due to the suffering over the centuries, and has a great evil trapped under the city to boot. That's why mages there are even more succeptible to demonic posession, and why it's pretty much Blood Mages R'Us.

[EmperorSahlertz]

cjones91 wrote...

MWImexico wrote...

Since he became an abomination, Uldred has killed / contaminated a lot of other mages. Maybe it's the same for the sloth demon who killed Niall, this demon was already an abomination when the warden and Niall meet him. It's like the victims of lady hariman, her daughter and husband are sacrificed but it's lady hariman who made the deal.

Also, about the Harrowing and the possessions, perhaps sometimes it's not as obvious as say "yes"? Perhaps sometimes the mage accept something, a proposition, a situation, without realising he's actually making a deal? Merill feared to be possessed by audacity, yet she didn't go to his cave thinking "ok i'll say yes". I suppose the demons exploit some weaknesses already present in the mage. For exemple :

Pride : I know demons are dangerous, but I need help, anyways I can handle it. I won't be tricked.
Fear: I know demons are dangerous, but I'm so scared, maybe if I cooperate ...? Please someone help me!
Rage: I hate those templars / seniors, if only I was more powerfull, I'll show them.
Audacity : I know it's dangerous, but the prize. It is worth it.
Sloth: It's to much efforts, I'm not against a little help, or a lot.

That doesn't mean though that a good training is not effective to prevent such failures. I guess willpower has it's part to play, does Isabela betray you in the fade if she likes you enough? if she doesn't then anything is possible XD

All the DA2 companions betray you no matter what during the Fade sequence,the only one who does'nt is Anders which is why I always bring him along.Also I don' t think there any demons labelled Audacity.

Audacity was the name of a Pride Demon. But no, it is not a demon species of it's own. The ones missing on the list is Hunger and Desire.

[MWImexico]

Well I wasn't specifically making a list of demons, more a list of some weaknesses that could be exploited by demons

[Fishy]

Reaverwind wrote...

As long as that hardcore mode is optional. While I support implementing consequences for player choice, I strongly disagree those consequences should be implemented through limiting savegames. i've played too many CRPG's where failing to keep multiple saves meant having to restart due to some stupid bug or glitch.

What they could do though .. Is  the conclusion of the choice you take don't have immediate effect. So people would take each choice more seriously. Like Connor in DA:O.. It take a while before you can go back to Red Cliff if you decide to take the most risky choice, but the most positive one.

Of course BioWare chickened  up and the descision ended up being good, but if Connor died you  had to redo a couple of hours of gameplay to ''metagame'' it.

Just having the opportunity to correct everything at the whim of a save take down the importance of each of them.
Hell i've seen playthrough of people saving their game before each dialogue with their companion in case they had lost influence after each one of them. I am sure a lot of people here did it. It's make each of those answer you take irrevelant because you just ''game the system'' and do not embrace your descision.

That one of the reason video game won't ever have the narrative power of a book or a movies. Especially RPG. Because you're locked into making all the time the best choice. You can roleplay it.. But who do ?

Modifié par Suprez30, 30 septembre 2013 - 10:36 .

[Wozearly]

Suprez30 wrote...

That one of the reason video game won't ever have the narrative power of a book or a movies. Especially RPG. Because you're locked into making all the time the best choice. You can roleplay it.. But who do ?

I do, for one.

Not all of my characters followed the "optimum" path from a metagame perspective, nor were their endings happy. Indeed, the two most powerful stories from my characters had bittersweet endings - the mage who'd given Alistair up for good accepting he'd take the throne, was delighted when he abdicated to be with her, and then saw him sacrifice himself to kill the Archdemon.

Equally, the Dwarf Commoner who ultimately recognised that there was no place for her in the "new" Orzammar with her family raised to the nobility and preferred to sacrifice herself against the Archdemon rather than return to a world where she couldn't be who she truly was, after seeing what happened to Branka.

The power-crazed human noble who ascended to the throne, forced Loghain to support him and then had Alistair murdered so that he and his heirs would be unchallenged (and attempted the same trick on former LI Morrigan, in an effort to make sure the OGB never came back to haunt him), comes a close third.

Of course the story will be weaker if you follow the path of being perfectly successful. But who is forcing you to do that? Do you really need every bonus available, or to do the right thing by every companion? Is that "best ending" for your character in gameplay terms actually the most interesting conclusion to their personal story?

Its entirely up to you if you deny yourself the narrative power of the imperfect path and all of its negative consequences. I think you're missing out on storytelling opportunities that Bioware chose to provide you with...

[Xilizhra]

Of course the story will be weaker if you follow the path of being perfectly successful.

Uh, why? I found it perfectly suitable in my own stories; I very much enjoy happy endings.

Is that "best ending" for your character in gameplay terms actually the most interesting conclusion to their personal story?

Yes.

[Fast Jimmy]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Rakia Time wrote...

The only thing i hope doesn't happen is me being forced to achieve a compromise between the two sides, now it should be an option, but so should be helping either side win even if the consequences are worse than the compromise option

You will not get this. The Save Import prevents even the notion of it being considered. 

...

Huzzah for the Save Import and allowing us to carry our personal world states from one game to the next!

I think you're being mean. I would argue world coherency prevents the notion--at least as extreme as its being suggested.

I seek to be blunt, nothing more. 

If you look at the responses to the posters after I made this/these comments, they acknowledged they hadn't thought about the Save Import and how hard that would be. It immediately answered their question about why such variable choices would be possible, simply due to the fact that the choice would need to carry into the future. 

[Xilizhra]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Rakia Time wrote...

The only thing i hope doesn't happen is me being forced to achieve a compromise between the two sides, now it should be an option, but so should be helping either side win even if the consequences are worse than the compromise option

You will not get this. The Save Import prevents even the notion of it being considered. 

...

Huzzah for the Save Import and allowing us to carry our personal world states from one game to the next!

I think you're being mean. I would argue world coherency prevents the notion--at least as extreme as its being suggested.

I seek to be blunt, nothing more. 

If you look at the responses to the posters after I made this/these comments, they acknowledged they hadn't thought about the Save Import and how hard that would be. It immediately answered their question about why such variable choices would be possible, simply due to the fact that the choice would need to carry into the future. 

The save import only requires that a single state be carried over, not that it be a compromise.

[Cainhurst Crow]

They'll just set it years in the future where all your choices led to the same thing anyway. Just as they did with kotor to kotor 2, and probably just like they did in baulders gate, and never winter nights, and mass effect, and from now until they shut down.

Pick your ending, wait for the next game to see if it's the one carried over, expect retcons.

[Heimdall]

Xilizhra wrote...

The save import only requires that a single state be carried over, not that it be a compromise.

The issue is the level of work required to have the next game adapt for such different endings.

It simply isn't economical to include radically different states of the world in a new game if they are too far reaching.  It's an ongoing problem.  So far the DA writers have sidestepped the issue by moving the geographical location and changing the protagonist (Hence why I'd bet a substantial sum DA IV takes place in Tevinter)

[BlueMagitek]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

They'll just set it years in the future where all your choices led to the same thing anyway. Just as they did with kotor to kotor 2, and probably just like they did in baulders gate, and never winter nights, and mass effect, and from now until they shut down.

Pick your ending, wait for the next game to see if it's the one carried over, expect retcons.

From my understanding, all Light Side endings of Star Wars games are considered canon, so KotOR 2 was more of an extension than anything.

[Heimdall]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

They'll just set it years in the future where all your choices led to the same thing anyway. Just as they did with kotor to kotor 2, and probably just like they did in baulders gate, and never winter nights, and mass effect, and from now until they shut down.

Pick your ending, wait for the next game to see if it's the one carried over, expect retcons.

From my understanding, all Light Side endings of Star Wars games are considered canon, so KotOR 2 was more of an extension than anything.

That is generally the standing rule for all Star Wars entertainment with branching endings.

I've seen people blame Bioware for canonizing Revan as a lightside male, but that was done by the folks at Lucasarts in charge of these things, probably before SWTOR entered development.

[BlueMagitek]

I was more annoyed that the Exile was a LSF, when the story doesn't make sense without The Handmaiden. ~_~"

I'm surprised Revan went LSM when I heard they were pushing for a LSF. Ah well, could have been a rumor.