2497 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Beerfish: As a peasant, do you also want me to collapse the caverns to the Deep Roads to TRY and stop the Darkspawn - slash and burn the Korcari Wilds for fear of Chasind - track down every Dalish clan...

I don't disagree with you - but there's a point where a peasants paranoia can also not determine state policy.

Since when has it become a bad idea to try and stop the Darkspawn?  If there actually are a cavern near your village, which leads into the Deep Roads, then yes, I would advice you collapse it.

And while you wouldn't have to burn down the Korcari wilds, if your vilalge lies on the border, it would be most prudent to actually deploy scouts and watches from time to time, just to keep an eye on the barbarian threat...

So the short answer: yes.....

If the threat is real, then it isn't paranoia.

There are so many reasons why those are bad Ideas.

[MisterJB]

leaguer of one wrote...
I'm sorry but  what is your deal?You don't have the right to judge if they have children or not. There is not issue with that. Them making babies is not an issue. Added, mages are incresing number even when they are not breeding with one another.

And if their are non mages born that have the freedom to go in and out of the tower as they age. Even have an option of becoming a templar.

My deal? I'm being practical. An increased number of mages would lead to problems controlling them which would lead to both mages overstepping their bounds and Templars cracking down as a result. A child could lead to a mage parent doing all sorts of things s/he would never consider doing before, which might include escape.
If they are non-mages, how do we ensure that child can have a normal childhood if s/he had to stay within the Circle? How will it interact with others like him/her, non-mages? What if s/he doesn't want to be a Templar? How will the kid earn a trade? The parents can't teach him/her.
Consider the Ferelden's Circle which is in the middle of nowhere. Will Templars travel daily to Redcliff carrying non-magical chidren?

Any new system that doesn't want to take away mage's childre has to answer these questions.

[The Hierophant]

leaguer of one wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Point...missing it. I specifically said all mages would be required to be taught. I'm referring to mages in the system having children being allowed to keep their children. Rhys was taken away from Wynne, a Circle mage who accepts the system, literally immediately after he was born.

If we don't take their kids away, how do we disencourage them from having them? And if we can't disencourage them, what is stopping the mages from increasing their numbers to a point where they can't be controlled?

And what if the child is a non-mage? Are we going to force him/her to spend childhood in a Circle without need and then kick him/her out?

I'm sorry but  what is your deal?You don't have the right to judge if they have children or not. There is not issue with that. Them making babies is not an issue. Added, mages are incresing number even when they are not breeding with one another.

And if their are non mages born that have the freedom to go in and out of the tower as they age. Even have an option of becoming a templar.

I don't agree either but i think it partly has to do with the CoM/Chantry not having infinite resources like food, water, clothing, furnishings, and toiletries. I can understand a non mage child who's needlessly in harms way but removing a mage child from their parent seems a little excessive.

[ScarMK]

leaguer of one wrote...

There are so many reasons why those are bad Ideas.

If there are so many reasons, you are expected to name them.

[leaguer of one]

The Hierophant wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Point...missing it. I specifically said all mages would be required to be taught. I'm referring to mages in the system having children being allowed to keep their children. Rhys was taken away from Wynne, a Circle mage who accepts the system, literally immediately after he was born.

If we don't take their kids away, how do we disencourage them from having them? And if we can't disencourage them, what is stopping the mages from increasing their numbers to a point where they can't be controlled?

And what if the child is a non-mage? Are we going to force him/her to spend childhood in a Circle without need and then kick him/her out?

I'm sorry but  what is your deal?You don't have the right to judge if they have children or not. There is not issue with that. Them making babies is not an issue. Added, mages are incresing number even when they are not breeding with one another.

And if their are non mages born that have the freedom to go in and out of the tower as they age. Even have an option of becoming a templar.

I don't agree either but i think it partly has to do with the CoM/Chantry not having infinite resources like food, water, clothing, furnishings, and toiletries. I can understand a non mage child who's needlessly in harms way but removing a mage child from their parent seems a little excessive.

Which is why the system need to be changed. A township around the tower which mages are allowed to to grow their own food and make their own goods would solve this problem.

[leaguer of one]

ScarMK wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

There are so many reasons why those are bad Ideas.

If there are so many reasons, you are expected to name them.

1. Changes to the deep roads effect the environment around them. Causing a cave means a chance of a landslide.

2. Caving in the entraces to the deep roads will also only slow down the darkspawn. Not stop them. They have history of digging through caved in passage ways.

3.Burning the wilds would also effect the homes near them . The smoke with the crop, farm animal and people near by drasicly. As well homes near by will also have a chance of getting burn as well.

[The Hierophant]

leaguer of one wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Point...missing it. I specifically said all mages would be required to be taught. I'm referring to mages in the system having children being allowed to keep their children. Rhys was taken away from Wynne, a Circle mage who accepts the system, literally immediately after he was born.

If we don't take their kids away, how do we disencourage them from having them? And if we can't disencourage them, what is stopping the mages from increasing their numbers to a point where they can't be controlled?

And what if the child is a non-mage? Are we going to force him/her to spend childhood in a Circle without need and then kick him/her out?

I'm sorry but  what is your deal?You don't have the right to judge if they have children or not. There is not issue with that. Them making babies is not an issue. Added, mages are incresing number even when they are not breeding with one another.

And if their are non mages born that have the freedom to go in and out of the tower as they age. Even have an option of becoming a templar.

I don't agree either but i think it partly has to do with the CoM/Chantry not having infinite resources like food, water, clothing, furnishings, and toiletries. I can understand a non mage child who's needlessly in harms way but removing a mage child from their parent seems a little excessive.

Which is why the system need to be changed. A township around the tower which mages are allowed to to grow their own food and make their own goods would solve this problem.

The problem i see  with this is the availability of land, it's price, who will grant the mages that land, and the probability of taxes too. Outside of the Chantry's oversight the mages are at the mercy of each individual nation.

[MisterJB]

leaguer of one wrote...
Which is why the system need to be changed. A township around the tower which mages are allowed to to grow their own food and make their own goods would solve this problem.

Unnecessery. Mages already provide for themselves through the selling of magical items and the tower is large enough if their numbers don't increase too much.. A town would just increase the possiblity of their escape; not to mention, it could lead to mage intruding themselves upon avenues of commerce commonly held by merchant families or nobles which could lead to conflict.

Personally, I would not take away accidental children but only once. If a mage appears pregnant for the second time, regardless of the father; the baby is taken away.
The problem of non-mage children remain, however. We are endangering them and taking their childhood from them needlessly.

[leaguer of one]

MisterJB wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
I'm sorry but  what is your deal?You don't have the right to judge if they have children or not. There is not issue with that. Them making babies is not an issue. Added, mages are incresing number even when they are not breeding with one another.

And if their are non mages born that have the freedom to go in and out of the tower as they age. Even have an option of becoming a templar.

My deal? I'm being practical. An increased number of mages would lead to problems controlling them which would lead to both mages overstepping their bounds and Templars cracking down as a result. A child could lead to a mage parent doing all sorts of things s/he would never consider doing before, which might include escape.
If they are non-mages, how do we ensure that child can have a normal childhood if s/he had to stay within the Circle? How will it interact with others like him/her, non-mages? What if s/he doesn't want to be a Templar? How will the kid earn a trade? The parents can't teach him/her.
Consider the Ferelden's Circle which is in the middle of nowhere. Will Templars travel daily to Redcliff carrying non-magical chidren?

Any new system that doesn't want to take away mage's childre has to answer these questions.

The issue with the mages and templars have nothing to do with the ammount of mages. It deals with mages wanting more freedoms then they have now. Blind athority is never 100% good and well as  blind anarchy. It should never be in a state were one side has absolute say. That just leads to more conflict. No matter how little or more mages they are, athority will always be defied if templars impose too much. If the enironment is right the mage will not leave. It matters not if their's a child involed or not. If mages don't like at the tower they will always try to leave. It you work with the mages and make the environment better for them to live in there will be far less issues.

I'm not saying that children born with magic out side the circle do not need to be sent to the circle. I'm saying children with magic born in the circle should be allowed to stay with there parrents being that there parent are not ignotant with magic and can teach them. The issue with children with magic is ignorance. Mage parents deter that.

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
Which is why the system need to be changed. A township around the tower which mages are allowed to to grow their own food and make their own goods would solve this problem.

Unnecessery. Mages already provide for themselves through the selling of magical items and the tower is large enough if their numbers don't increase too much.. A town would just increase the possiblity of their escape; not to mention, it could lead to mage intruding themselves upon avenues of commerce commonly held by merchant families or nobles which could lead to conflict.

Personally, I would not take away accidental children but only once. If a mage appears pregnant for the second time, regardless of the father; the baby is taken away.
The problem of non-mage children remain, however. We are endangering them and taking their childhood from them needlessly.

What's wrong with mages being merchants?

[leaguer of one]

Beerfish wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...



I support mages, not because they have a better system, but because I think it's better for everyone if they are removed from the source of the abuse as swiftly as possible. The templars need to get their act together. Now that they're free of the Circles, I fully intend, as the Inquisitor, to make sure they also get their act together.

What does 'getting their act together' mean?  I'm not asking as a mage or a templar or a member of the chantry but as a common citizen of thedas.

The conflict the people of thedas get dragged into when templars and mages fight over mangement issues.

[leaguer of one]

The Hierophant wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Point...missing it. I specifically said all mages would be required to be taught. I'm referring to mages in the system having children being allowed to keep their children. Rhys was taken away from Wynne, a Circle mage who accepts the system, literally immediately after he was born.

If we don't take their kids away, how do we disencourage them from having them? And if we can't disencourage them, what is stopping the mages from increasing their numbers to a point where they can't be controlled?

And what if the child is a non-mage? Are we going to force him/her to spend childhood in a Circle without need and then kick him/her out?

I'm sorry but  what is your deal?You don't have the right to judge if they have children or not. There is not issue with that. Them making babies is not an issue. Added, mages are incresing number even when they are not breeding with one another.

And if their are non mages born that have the freedom to go in and out of the tower as they age. Even have an option of becoming a templar.

I don't agree either but i think it partly has to do with the CoM/Chantry not having infinite resources like food, water, clothing, furnishings, and toiletries. I can understand a non mage child who's needlessly in harms way but removing a mage child from their parent seems a little excessive.

Which is why the system need to be changed. A township around the tower which mages are allowed to to grow their own food and make their own goods would solve this problem.

The problem i see  with this is the availability of land, it's price, who will grant the mages that land, and the probability of taxes too. Outside of the Chantry's oversight the mages are at the mercy of each individual nation.

Point to one chantry that gets taxed... The nation already has a ahabit of lending the chantry land with  no taxes. Added the land around the circle already is owned by the chantry. Even then if they do get taxes, mages can still sell their good to other and make money.

[MisterJB]

leaguer of one wrote...
The issue with the mages and templars have nothing to do with the ammount of mages. It deals with mages wanting more freedoms then they have now. Blind athority is never 100% good and well as  blind anarchy. It should never be in a state were one side has absolute say. That just leads to more conflict. No matter how little or more mages they are, athority will always be defied if templars impose too much. If the enironment is right the mage will not leave. It matters not if their's a child involed or not. If mages don't like at the tower they will always try to leave. It you work with the mages and make the environment better for them to live in there will be far less issues.

I'm not saying that children born with magic out side the circle do not need to be sent to the circle. I'm saying children with magic born in the circle should be allowed to stay with there parrents being that there parent are not ignotant with magic and can teach them. The issue with children with magic is ignorance. Mage parents deter that.

People are never satisfied. When they get something, then they want something else. The more mages there are, the more power they have; the more power they have, the more demands they make; the more demands they make, the more conflict there is.
Demographics are extremely important and the numbers of mages have to be kept at a manageable level otherwise, we won't be able to refuse them anything.

And on the matter of children a mage could try to escape because he doesn't want his child spending his life in the Circle or maybe the child is simply too weak to pass the Harrowing. There are nay number of situations where having a kid could compromise the emotions of a mage which would make the mage dangerous.
Simply saying; well we have to make it so that everyone is happy in the Circle is not much of an argument if you don't include how we do that.

[leaguer of one]

MisterJB wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
The issue with the mages and templars have nothing to do with the ammount of mages. It deals with mages wanting more freedoms then they have now. Blind athority is never 100% good and well as  blind anarchy. It should never be in a state were one side has absolute say. That just leads to more conflict. No matter how little or more mages they are, athority will always be defied if templars impose too much. If the enironment is right the mage will not leave. It matters not if their's a child involed or not. If mages don't like at the tower they will always try to leave. It you work with the mages and make the environment better for them to live in there will be far less issues.

I'm not saying that children born with magic out side the circle do not need to be sent to the circle. I'm saying children with magic born in the circle should be allowed to stay with there parrents being that there parent are not ignotant with magic and can teach them. The issue with children with magic is ignorance. Mage parents deter that.

People are never satisfied. When they get something, then they want something else. The more mages there are, the more power they have; the more power they have, the more demands they make; the more demands they make, the more conflict there is.
Demographics are extremely important and the numbers of mages have to be kept at a manageable level otherwise, we won't be able to refuse them anything.

And on the matter of children a mage could try to escape because he doesn't want his child spending his life in the Circle or maybe the child is simply too weak to pass the Harrowing. There are nay number of situations where having a kid could compromise the emotions of a mage which would make the mage dangerous.
Simply saying; well we have to make it so that everyone is happy in the Circle is not much of an argument if you don't include how we do that.

BS. If that were true all countries would be fighting revolutions to this day. This is not a case of someone wanting what someone else has. It's a case mages want basic freedoms. No one would be hurt if that is done resonably. Saying they will be never satisfied is a lazy excuse and lazy thinking.  The idea of keeping the number of mages lower for better managment is ignorant being that more mages are being born and found in dramatic ammount.
The systme the templar are using is flawed and will fall apart, like all tyrannical systems.

And no the mage will not try to ecape the circle with there children is the circle is given better living conditions. Really, this is a case of leaving a place the clothes and feeds you for a world that demandes you do it yourself while hiding. That is much worse for children.

Sorry but you don't have any excuse for trying to make the circle better for mages. Just do ing that will solve most of every thing.

[EmperorSahlertz]

leaguer of one wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Beerfish: As a peasant, do you also want me to collapse the caverns to the Deep Roads to TRY and stop the Darkspawn - slash and burn the Korcari Wilds for fear of Chasind - track down every Dalish clan...

I don't disagree with you - but there's a point where a peasants paranoia can also not determine state policy.

Since when has it become a bad idea to try and stop the Darkspawn?  If there actually are a cavern near your village, which leads into the Deep Roads, then yes, I would advice you collapse it.

And while you wouldn't have to burn down the Korcari wilds, if your vilalge lies on the border, it would be most prudent to actually deploy scouts and watches from time to time, just to keep an eye on the barbarian threat...

So the short answer: yes.....

If the threat is real, then it isn't paranoia.

There are so many reasons why those are bad Ideas.

Sealing off an enemies line of approach, border patrols and watch towers are bad ideas? 

Please enlighten us as to why...

[cjones91]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Beerfish: As a peasant, do you also want me to collapse the caverns to the Deep Roads to TRY and stop the Darkspawn - slash and burn the Korcari Wilds for fear of Chasind - track down every Dalish clan...

I don't disagree with you - but there's a point where a peasants paranoia can also not determine state policy.

Since when has it become a bad idea to try and stop the Darkspawn?  If there actually are a cavern near your village, which leads into the Deep Roads, then yes, I would advice you collapse it.

And while you wouldn't have to burn down the Korcari wilds, if your vilalge lies on the border, it would be most prudent to actually deploy scouts and watches from time to time, just to keep an eye on the barbarian threat...

So the short answer: yes.....

If the threat is real, then it isn't paranoia.

There are so many reasons why those are bad Ideas.

Sealing off an enemies line of approach, border patrols and watch towers are bad ideas? 

Please enlighten us as to why...

My guess is that the Darkspawn would just find another way up and overwhelm the dwarves while sealed under ground.

[leaguer of one]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Beerfish: As a peasant, do you also want me to collapse the caverns to the Deep Roads to TRY and stop the Darkspawn - slash and burn the Korcari Wilds for fear of Chasind - track down every Dalish clan...

I don't disagree with you - but there's a point where a peasants paranoia can also not determine state policy.

Since when has it become a bad idea to try and stop the Darkspawn?  If there actually are a cavern near your village, which leads into the Deep Roads, then yes, I would advice you collapse it.

And while you wouldn't have to burn down the Korcari wilds, if your vilalge lies on the border, it would be most prudent to actually deploy scouts and watches from time to time, just to keep an eye on the barbarian threat...

So the short answer: yes.....

If the threat is real, then it isn't paranoia.

There are so many reasons why those are bad Ideas.

Sealing off an enemies line of approach, border patrols and watch towers are bad ideas? 

Please enlighten us as to why...

1. Changes to the deep roads effect the environment around them. Causing a cave means a chance of a landslide.

2. Caving in the entraces to the deep roads will also only slow down the darkspawn. Not stop them. They have history of digging through caved in passage ways.

3.Burning the wilds would also effect the homes near them . The smoke with the crop, farm animal and people near by drasicly. As well homes near by will also have a chance of getting burn as well.

I'm not say adding more patrols is a bad idea or watch towers but you how to consider hwo you do it because it has an effect on the people you are trying to protect.

[dragonflight288]

You still have given me no reason at all to not have the mage killed by the angry mob? And Wynne was very pro circle for most of her life, as in the circle is the thing that is protecting us from being lynched.

Because it's an innocent child, who most likely hasn't done anything wrong at all! Are you telling me that it's perfectly fine to slaughter and kill entire groups of people because of something that might happen, or because of what they are?

That is the very thing that Hitler, Pol Pot, and other dictators have said and the exact logic used by them to commit genocide.

I'm not saying you are another Hitler, but the logic you are utilizing is exactly the same as what he used.

Mister JB wrote....


If we don't take their kids away, how do we disencourage them from having them? And if we can't disencourage them, what is stopping the mages from increasing their numbers to a point where they can't be controlled?

And what if the child is a non-mage? Are we going to force him/her to spend childhood in a Circle without need and then kick him/her out?

And what if the child is simply not strong enough for the Harrowying? What will stop the parent from doing something stupid?

O.O

Are you serious?

Why oh heavens why!?! Who are we, or the Chantry, to dictate who can and who cannot have the right to have children or a family!?! Why shouldn't mages be allowed to raise children, or have kids of their own? There is no logical reason for it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

leaguer of one wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Beerfish: As a peasant, do you also want me to collapse the caverns to the Deep Roads to TRY and stop the Darkspawn - slash and burn the Korcari Wilds for fear of Chasind - track down every Dalish clan...

I don't disagree with you - but there's a point where a peasants paranoia can also not determine state policy.

Since when has it become a bad idea to try and stop the Darkspawn?  If there actually are a cavern near your village, which leads into the Deep Roads, then yes, I would advice you collapse it.

And while you wouldn't have to burn down the Korcari wilds, if your vilalge lies on the border, it would be most prudent to actually deploy scouts and watches from time to time, just to keep an eye on the barbarian threat...

So the short answer: yes.....

If the threat is real, then it isn't paranoia.

There are so many reasons why those are bad Ideas.

Sealing off an enemies line of approach, border patrols and watch towers are bad ideas? 

Please enlighten us as to why...

1. Changes to the deep roads effect the environment around them. Causing a cave means a chance of a landslide.

2. Caving in the entraces to the deep roads will also only slow down the darkspawn. Not stop them. They have history of digging through caved in passage ways.

3.Burning the wilds would also effect the homes near them . The smoke with the crop, farm animal and people near by drasicly. As well homes near by will also have a chance of getting burn as well.

I'm not say adding more patrols is a bad idea or watch towers but you how to consider hwo you do it because it has an effect on the people you are trying to protect.

I specifically said you wouldn't ahve to burn down the Korcari wilds. It is even in the post you first quoted....

I advocate that you prepare for the real and present danger. If you live on the edges of the Korcari wilds, you should be ready for a Barbarian raid. Not to prepare for such, would be irresponsible.
Same goes for if you live near a cavern which you know leads to the deep roads. You know the Darkspawn will attack from there, so not to try and either A: prevent it or B: prepare for it, is extremely irresponsible. And while yes, collapsing a cavern might hold some inherrent danger, I didn't say you should do it in as shoddy a way as possible, but actually try and act professional about it.

Simply put, if you know there is a danger, not doing anything to prepare for it is irresponsible and downright stupid.

[cjones91]

dragonflight288 wrote...

You still have given me no reason at all to not have the mage killed by the angry mob? And Wynne was very pro circle for most of her life, as in the circle is the thing that is protecting us from being lynched.

Because it's an innocent child, who most likely hasn't done anything wrong at all! Are you telling me that it's perfectly fine to slaughter and kill entire groups of people because of something that might happen, or because of what they are?

That is the very thing that Hitler, Pol Pot, and other dictators have said and the exact logic used by them to commit genocide.

I'm not saying you are another Hitler, but the logic you are utilizing is exactly the same as what he used.

Mister JB wrote....


If we don't take their kids away, how do we disencourage them from having them? And if we can't disencourage them, what is stopping the mages from increasing their numbers to a point where they can't be controlled?

And what if the child is a non-mage? Are we going to force him/her to spend childhood in a Circle without need and then kick him/her out?

And what if the child is simply not strong enough for the Harrowying? What will stop the parent from doing something stupid?

O.O

Are you serious?

Why oh heavens why!?! Who are we, or the Chantry, to dictate who can and who cannot have the right to have children or a family!?! Why shouldn't mages be allowed to raise children, or have kids of their own? There is no logical reason for it.

MisterJB believes mages should have no rights including the right to raise their own children it seems.

[cjones91]

dragonflight288 wrote...

You still have given me no reason at all to not have the mage killed by the angry mob? And Wynne was very pro circle for most of her life, as in the circle is the thing that is protecting us from being lynched.

Because it's an innocent child, who most likely hasn't done anything wrong at all! Are you telling me that it's perfectly fine to slaughter and kill entire groups of people because of something that might happen, or because of what they are?

That is the very thing that Hitler, Pol Pot, and other dictators have said and the exact logic used by them to commit genocide.

I'm not saying you are another Hitler, but the logic you are utilizing is exactly the same as what he used.

Mister JB wrote....


If we don't take their kids away, how do we disencourage them from having them? And if we can't disencourage them, what is stopping the mages from increasing their numbers to a point where they can't be controlled?

And what if the child is a non-mage? Are we going to force him/her to spend childhood in a Circle without need and then kick him/her out?

And what if the child is simply not strong enough for the Harrowying? What will stop the parent from doing something stupid?

O.O

Are you serious?

Why oh heavens why!?! Who are we, or the Chantry, to dictate who can and who cannot have the right to have children or a family!?! Why shouldn't mages be allowed to raise children, or have kids of their own? There is no logical reason for it.

MisterJB believes mages should have no rights including the right to raise their own children it seems.

[dragonflight288]

cjones91 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

You still have given me no reason at all to not have the mage killed by the angry mob? And Wynne was very pro circle for most of her life, as in the circle is the thing that is protecting us from being lynched.

Because it's an innocent child, who most likely hasn't done anything wrong at all! Are you telling me that it's perfectly fine to slaughter and kill entire groups of people because of something that might happen, or because of what they are?

That is the very thing that Hitler, Pol Pot, and other dictators have said and the exact logic used by them to commit genocide.

I'm not saying you are another Hitler, but the logic you are utilizing is exactly the same as what he used.

Mister JB wrote....


If we don't take their kids away, how do we disencourage them from having them? And if we can't disencourage them, what is stopping the mages from increasing their numbers to a point where they can't be controlled?

And what if the child is a non-mage? Are we going to force him/her to spend childhood in a Circle without need and then kick him/her out?

And what if the child is simply not strong enough for the Harrowying? What will stop the parent from doing something stupid?

O.O

Are you serious?

Why oh heavens why!?! Who are we, or the Chantry, to dictate who can and who cannot have the right to have children or a family!?! Why shouldn't mages be allowed to raise children, or have kids of their own? There is no logical reason for it.

MisterJB believes mages should have no rights including the right to raise their own children it seems.

The first comment was from beerfish, but yeah...apparantly.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

You still have given me no reason at all to not have the mage killed by the angry mob? And Wynne was very pro circle for most of her life, as in the circle is the thing that is protecting us from being lynched.

Because it's an innocent child, who most likely hasn't done anything wrong at all! Are you telling me that it's perfectly fine to slaughter and kill entire groups of people because of something that might happen, or because of what they are?

That is the very thing that Hitler, Pol Pot, and other dictators have said and the exact logic used by them to commit genocide.

I'm not saying you are another Hitler, but the logic you are utilizing is exactly the same as what he used. 

And so it came to pass, that the Hitler card was played.


And actually it isn't the same logic at all. First of all, Hitler and Pol Pot used the premise that the targeted demographics of their Genocide had already done their damage, and was continueing to do so. Furthermore, as we know, it was only a percieved threat, spun by them, so that it would seem real, and the people of their contries was in such a state, taht they needed a scapegoat.

The threat of mages is real, and as such the "Hitler argument" falls flat on its face, since it can't apply to sucha situation.

dragonflight288 wrote...

Mister JB wrote....

If we don't take their kids away, how do we disencourage them from having them? And if we can't disencourage them, what is stopping the mages from increasing their numbers to a point where they can't be controlled?

And what if the child is a non-mage? Are we going to force him/her to spend childhood in a Circle without need and then kick him/her out?

And what if the child is simply not strong enough for the Harrowying? What will stop the parent from doing something stupid?

O.O

Are you serious?

Why oh heavens why!?! Who are we, or the Chantry, to dictate who can and who cannot have the right to have children or a family!?! Why shouldn't mages be allowed to raise children, or have kids of their own? There is no logical reason for it.

For the same reason we don't allow mentally ill to raise their own children. The mage simply pose a danger to their own child, wether they want to or not.

[dragonflight288]

And so it came to pass, that the Hitler card was played.
http://static.tvtrop...hitlercard2.jpg

And actually it isn't the same logic at all. First of all, Hitler and Pol Pot used the premise that the targeted demographics of their Genocide had already done their damage, and was continueing to do so. Furthermore, as we know, it was only a percieved threat, spun by them, so that it would seem real, and the people of their contries was in such a state, taht they needed a scapegoat.

The threat of mages is real, and as such the "Hitler argument" falls flat on its face, since it can't apply to sucha situation.

I didn't use the hitler card lightly, and simply mentioning it simply does not take away the validity of my statement. Pro-templars are advocating whole-sale slaughter, genocide, and are using the same logic Hitler, Pol Pot and other dictators who ended up committing genocide did.

Simply pointing out and demonizing my own comment does absolutely nothing to take away the validity of my comment.

For the same reason we don't allow mentally ill to raise their own children. The mage simply pose a danger to their own child, wether they want to or not.

Mages aren't mentally ill.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 02 octobre 2013 - 08:52 .

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
O.O

Are you serious?

Why oh heavens why!?! Who are we, or the Chantry, to dictate who can and who cannot have the right to have children or a family!?! Why shouldn't mages be allowed to raise children, or have kids of their own? There is no logical reason for it.

I gave you logical reasons. Mage overpopulation, difficulty to control, mage emotions, non-mage children.
Are you going to adress them or just continuing to use morality as a shield?