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[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: Right - because lightning is searching for a human touching a telephone pole.

Lightning is searching for whatever attracts it, and has a greater chance of causing harm if a harmable being is in an area where lightning is coming down to Earth. Much like demons.

Lightning doesn't actively seek out people even on sunny days.

Demons are always trying to posess

And almost never succeed because, you know, the Veil. You have to have mental armor cracked in an area of badly weakened Veil, or actively invite it in.

That in no way reduces their danger to everyone else

Between this and the "even on sunny days" line, I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about.

You compared demonic posession to walking into a thunderstorm and grabbing a pole correct?

I'm saying that comparison is retarded

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

First off, lightning isn't searching for anything. It isn't sentient. Demons ARE actively seeking things.

Humans touching telephone poles don't attract lightning any more than telephone poles by themselves do.

Even a lightning rod relies on height. It's not like lightning rods are magical pieces of lightning attracting metal.

Demons are searching, but they're reliant upon environmental conditions and specific types of mental weakness to actually succeed. If you disagree, name me one mage who became an abomination without being in a thin-Veil area or the demon being actively invited in, through botched summoning or something like Connor.

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: Mental weakness your character could NEVER possess right? Because you would never - ever - be tempted. Even as a blood mage who, according to the actual lore of the game and not head canon - is MORE susceptible to possession.

Specific types of mental weakness like... being a mortal with emotions.

SO, you want your mage to be Tranquil? Honestly, having read your posts - I think I would too.

As for an in game mage who becomes possessed without invitation... I assume you are going to state that duress is still invitation. Which - of course - your uber mage is impervious to.

You have invented a world where your mage is impervious - and developed an entire mental state around it where a Magetopia will have every mage mysteriously being impervious to demons and just being "cautious".  Like looking both ways while crossing a street to be "cautious" of cars.

  I don't care that you do it - but you're not correct about the Dragon Age world that has been presented at all.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 03 octobre 2013 - 03:18 .

[Medhia Nox]

BTW - Amalia and Kitty.

[Heimdall]

leaguer of one wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The lore clearly states that the greater the amgical talent, the more appetizing the mage is to the Demon. Then logcally, the less the magical talent, the less appetizing the mage is. Therefore, if the magical talent is so insignificant that you can abrely differentiate between a mundane and the mage, the demon would probably not bother, since there are so many other more tasty targets out there.

I seem to recall some sort of developer quote that said that even the weakest mage attracts demons.

Admittedly I don't remember where, but I actually think I read a quote from Gaider saying a Mage of little and untrained talent is indistinguishable from a mundane as far as demons are concerned.

No he did not say that. Demons can sense mages.

Certainly they can, especially when they train and develop those skills.  Demons can also sense mundanes, the only ones that maybe they can't are the dwarves and the Tranquil outright repel them.  I recall it fairly clearly.

[Heimdall]

leaguer of one wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...
@Lord Aesir: And what if the pathetic little weakling turns to blood magic like Jowan?

Demons "seem" to think blood mages are hell-arious - look at the Hunger Demon that mocks Avernus.

Sometimes the weaklings - if also craven power mongers - might be the most dangerous.

I don't doubt it.  As mages gain greater skill and knowledge in magical power, they become more attractive to demons.  That's what the Harrowing is for, a way for mages to prove they can resist the predation of your average demon and thus be allowed to become full mages with all the additional access to study and further power that entails.

Mages attract demon reguardless if they become more powerful or not. Remember, there is a history of untrain mages who get turned and attract demons.

When they make use of their talent without control, yeah.  However the lore states that the more powerful a Mage becomes the more attractive they become to demons.  The same is true in reverse.  Your average new apprentice is barely more interesting to a demon than someone who is not a Mage.

[Medhia Nox]

@Lord Aesir: After all - for a demon to possess a non-mage (and by that I mean an apprentice) is too pointless/dangerous for the demon.

Sure - a demon by itself is really dangerous - but moreso if the mage has some real spellpower.

====

Concerning DA:I - I wonder if those demons will be searching for bodies to inhabit like Justice had to.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 03 octobre 2013 - 03:32 .

[DPSSOC]

leaguer of one wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I'll post it when I get home to my copy. But it was in the magic section if I recall correctly.

Then I  don't beleive it. The one points of the circle to make sure mages learn to resist demons, how do mages with less power not attract demons?

"Chantry law requires those with significant magical ability to join the nearest Circle and live under its supervision. While Thedosians with extremely low levels of magical talent are generally permitted to go about their lives, they are still closely watched."

Page 99

So..How are these low level mages learn to resist demons and not be com abombinations?

Probably in the Circle some time between showing signs of magic (age 6ish) and however long it takes to determine whether they possess "significant magical ability," which would likely be around the time they're lining up for the Harrowing (early adulthood).

Darth Brotarian wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Do we even know if magic is hereditary or bound by genetics?

Technically we do not. But, in Tevinter they seem to believe so, and they marry into family bloodlines with "strong magic". But we don't have any concrete proof that it is based on genes, or simply "just because".

People of thedas also believe being related to a great grand father who did something a long time ago makes you best qualified to rule. Belief in bloodlines having something to do with other qualities of life isn't that rare, and doesn't seem to actually have any merit.

Except we've seen, repeatedly, that magic does run in bloodlines.  The Amell family had a history of producing more mages than other families in the same area, Isolde's family had a history of magic, the Tevinter genealogical records, etc.  Seems rather clear that some level of genetic predisposition exists as well as any possible environmental factors.

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

or some dumb kid who outright asked to be possessed.

I think this is probably a good reason for the Circles to exist.

Given that the modus operandi of the Circles is why he wasn't in one... no.

Not really.  I mean don't get me wrong it was a factor but it was primarily Isolde's fears with regards to her own history.  She admits that the mages in her family have been, historically, horrible people, and she worried that Connor might become one of them.  Not to mention that what we find out about Eamon with regards to Cailin's marriage suggests she might have had a not entirely unjustified fear that if Connor were found to be a mage she'd be cast aside.  Her concerns were not about how Connor would be treated in the Circle, they were entirely focused on her wants and needs and how those were best served.

Also because I've noticed it brought up in this and other threads, the Circle is not a punishment.  The Chantry doesn't lock up mages because of what mages have historically done; we know this because the original system did not involve isolating and imprisoning mages, merely restricting their use of magic.  The Circle is, and always has been, a place where mages can practice magic without endangering the general populace.  The Chantry locks mages up because any use of magic can cause harm if the mage fails to maintain control.  Perfect example is the mage apprentice who lights himself on fire.  It isn't about blaming them for the past actions of the Imperium, it's about taking proper precautions.  You can live free if you agree to only practice magic under controlled, supervised, and approved circumstances, or you can live in controlled, supervised and approved circumstances and practice magic pretty much whenever you want.  You can't have both.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra: Mental weakness your character could NEVER possess right? Because you would never - ever - be tempted. Even as a blood mage who, according to the actual lore of the game and not head canon - is MORE susceptible to possession.

Specific types of mental weakness like... being a mortal with emotions.

Both strong emotions and a lack of willpower, such that if you didn't have enough for this, you wouldn't be a mighty adventurer to begin with. And blood mages aren't inherently more vulnerable to possession, they just can cast spells that bring more demons in.

As for an in game mage who becomes possessed without invitation... I assume you are going to state that duress is still invitation. Which - of course - your uber mage is impervious to.

Invitation, or being in a thin-Veiled area.

BTW - Amalia and Kitty.

Neither one is a mage.

Also because I've noticed it brought up in this and other threads, the Circle is not a punishment. The Chantry doesn't lock up mages because of what mages have historically done; we know this because the original system did not involve isolating and imprisoning mages, merely restricting their use of magic. The Circle is, and always has been, a place where mages can practice magic without endangering the general populace. The Chantry locks mages up because any use of magic can cause harm if the mage fails to maintain control. Perfect example is the mage apprentice who lights himself on fire. It isn't about blaming them for the past actions of the Imperium, it's about taking proper precautions. You can live free if you agree to only practice magic under controlled, supervised, and approved circumstances, or you can live in controlled, supervised and approved circumstances and practice magic pretty much whenever you want. You can't have both.

Have a way to hop back and forth between supervision and regular life.

[Br3admax]

Uh, Amalia is a mage. She's just young. Second, blood magic is stated to make one easier to possess. That's lore.

[DPSSOC]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also because I've noticed it brought up in this and other threads, the Circle is not a punishment. The Chantry doesn't lock up mages because of what mages have historically done; we know this because the original system did not involve isolating and imprisoning mages, merely restricting their use of magic. The Circle is, and always has been, a place where mages can practice magic without endangering the general populace. The Chantry locks mages up because any use of magic can cause harm if the mage fails to maintain control. Perfect example is the mage apprentice who lights himself on fire. It isn't about blaming them for the past actions of the Imperium, it's about taking proper precautions. You can live free if you agree to only practice magic under controlled, supervised, and approved circumstances, or you can live in controlled, supervised and approved circumstances and practice magic pretty much whenever you want. You can't have both.

Have a way to hop back and forth between supervision and regular life.

That'd be option 1 - live free and only practice in controlled, supervised circumstances with appropriate approvals.  The Mages weren't satisfied with this arrangement before, but admittedly they were never allowed to do much.

[Xilizhra]

That'd be option 1 - live free and only practice in controlled, supervised circumstances with appropriate approvals. The Mages weren't satisfied with this arrangement before, but admittedly they were never allowed to do much.

That's why my situation has other mages doing the supervising, not the Chantry. Just do the groundbreaking experiments at the lab, not your own house.

[DPSSOC]

Xilizhra wrote...

That'd be option 1 - live free and only practice in controlled, supervised circumstances with appropriate approvals. The Mages weren't satisfied with this arrangement before, but admittedly they were never allowed to do much.

That's why my situation has other mages doing the supervising, not the Chantry. Just do the groundbreaking experiments at the lab, not your own house.

I'd disagree.  When determining which uses of magic are worth endangering people for, you really need to have somebody representing the interests of the people in danger.  Mages could and should be involved, but the final decision should fall to someone who's more sympathetic to the common people than mages, and no mage is ever going to meet that criteria and it'd be unreasonable to expect them to.

[Xilizhra]

DPSSOC wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

That'd be option 1 - live free and only practice in controlled, supervised circumstances with appropriate approvals. The Mages weren't satisfied with this arrangement before, but admittedly they were never allowed to do much.

That's why my situation has other mages doing the supervising, not the Chantry. Just do the groundbreaking experiments at the lab, not your own house.

I'd disagree.  When determining which uses of magic are worth endangering people for, you really need to have somebody representing the interests of the people in danger.  Mages could and should be involved, but the final decision should fall to someone who's more sympathetic to the common people than mages, and no mage is ever going to meet that criteria and it'd be unreasonable to expect them to.

I think an equal sharing of power works, not with someone having final authority over the other. I'd rather avoid dominance.

[leaguer of one]

Lord Aesir wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...
@Lord Aesir: And what if the pathetic little weakling turns to blood magic like Jowan?

Demons "seem" to think blood mages are hell-arious - look at the Hunger Demon that mocks Avernus.

Sometimes the weaklings - if also craven power mongers - might be the most dangerous.

I don't doubt it.  As mages gain greater skill and knowledge in magical power, they become more attractive to demons.  That's what the Harrowing is for, a way for mages to prove they can resist the predation of your average demon and thus be allowed to become full mages with all the additional access to study and further power that entails.

Mages attract demon reguardless if they become more powerful or not. Remember, there is a history of untrain mages who get turned and attract demons.

When they make use of their talent without control, yeah.  However the lore states that the more powerful a Mage becomes the more attractive they become to demons.  The same is true in reverse.  Your average new apprentice is barely more interesting to a demon than someone who is not a Mage.

Your still not getting it.  Even if a mage lacks power or is low powered they attract  demons. Saying more powerful mages do not mean less powerful mages don't  attract  demons.  If you have two mages, mage a and mage b, if mage b is the more powerful they will go after them. But if mage b is not there  but mage a is there , they will go after mage a  regardless of power. They do go after the more powerful mages fight but there is none they go after any mage reguardless of power. The only time a mage does nto attract demons is if they are tranquil.

[LobselVith8]

Medhia Nox wrote...

BTW - Amalia and Kitty.

Kitty seemed to be in Amalia's head, and she runs off when she realizes that there's something malevolent about Kitty when the Desire Demon verbally promises not to proceed with possessing her, which possibly voids any unbeknownst contract Amalia might have entered into (like Connor did with the 'bad lady' of his dreams).

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

Uh, Amalia is a mage. She's just young. Second, blood magic is stated to make one easier to possess. That's lore.

But the cat is a mage?

[leaguer of one]

DPSSOC wrote...



Probably in the Circle some time between showing signs of magic (age 6ish) and however long it takes to determine whether they possess "significant magical ability," which would likely be around the time they're lining up for the Harrowing (early adulthood).

But what attract demons to mages is the ability to use magic. It matter not how mych that ability it.

[Medhia Nox]

The Codex on Abominations states that demons can possess by force.

I just read earlier tonight, but cannot find now, the Codex that states that blood mages are more susceptible to possession.

You are making things up to fit your headcanon Xilizhra.

It's late - I'm done with this conversation. I'll find the Codex entry about blood mages some later time.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 03 octobre 2013 - 04:10 .

[Xilizhra]

The Codex on Abominations states that demons can possess by force.

They can... when the Veil is thin.

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: Stop making things up - the Codex on abominations does not signify when.

Find me the Codex or appropriate statement in one of the games where it specifically states they can only do it forcefully when the Veil is thin.

Otherwise - your assertions are baseless.