2497 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

KainD wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Except logic can work without emotions.

No it can't. Logic is reasoning, you can't have any reasons for anything if you have no emotions, because all your actions are always based on your wants, and if you don't have emotions you don't want anything, or have any kind of opinion. 

Your assuming empirical observation of better circumstances does not exist, which is wrong. That is the only way you could make as dumb an argument as you have.

[Cainhurst Crow]

KainD wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The explanation given is that obedience is prudent. (We have this from a Tranquil who disobeys while her Templar masters aren't looking.)

But no emotions... prudent..  I really wish David explained properly how tranquil function. 

So you think survival is tied to emotions and not a need installed into us through genetics? Tranquil still have survival instincts,  at least owain did. They also seem to be capable of forming attachments to routines, another things humans do that is more tied into psychology than emotions.

[Medhia Nox]

And look at cashiers at your local grocery store... they're practically zombies, yet the still manage to pull your groceries over the scanner and bag them.

I'm not falling for this want/emotion story.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 12 octobre 2013 - 04:25 .

[KainD]

Medhia Nox wrote...

So, you're saying plants have emotions right?

No, plants do not perform any actions, they are not sentient. They don't have a choice, it's just how they function. People on the other hand have a choice. 

[Medhia Nox]

Plants don't perform any actions?

[KainD]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Your assuming empirical observation of better circumstances does not exist, which is wrong. That is the only way you could make as dumb an argument as you have.

It is not wrong. Better is subjective, and is tied to emotions. 

[KainD]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Plants don't perform any actions?

Yes they don't. Saying that plants are performing any actions is the same as saying that person x is pumping blood through his veins, even though it's his heart, and he doesn't really have a direct control over that, other than killing himself, which is an emotional action. 

[KainD]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So you think survival is tied to emotions and not a need installed into us through genetics? Tranquil still have survival instincts,  at least owain did. They also seem to be capable of forming attachments to routines, another things humans do that is more tied into psychology than emotions.

People have too much direct control over their functions, that is not part of spinal brain and instincts, and those are governed by emotions. 

Modifié par KainD, 12 octobre 2013 - 04:33 .

[KainD]

J. Reezy wrote...

The absence of conscious thought doesn't stop an action from being.

Direct control stops an action from being when you don't have any reasons to perform the action. 

[TEWR]

It doesn't matter whether or not it effects the non-magical citizenry though, not to the people making or enforcing the laws. The rulers have made a law regarding blood magic in their lands, they are well within their rights to do so, and they will enforce it, unless the mages are willing to violently carve out and maintain a territory, they are going to have to work within the confines of the law of the lands they inhabit, they can't just decide which rules they feel like following.

If the Circles became autonomous sections in their own right, this wouldn't be an issue. It would be a little dot of land in the countries that would be bound under its own laws. A state within a state, if you will.

So were a Mage to practice blood magic inside the Circle, he'd be legally allowed to do so. If he stepped foot onto the borders of Fereldan soil and slit his wrists while dancing naked under the moonlight, then he'd be subject to Ferelden's laws about the illegality of it all.

That's primarily what the fight for the Mages entails, I feel. The fight for the Circles to be considered autonomous areas (but with regulations, of course, like the Templars and Chantry. They wouldn't be in control, but they'd help keep control).

We've no indication that the First Enchanter, Senior Enchanters, or Fraternity Heads are elected to their positions.

Actually, the First Enchanter is always picked from among the ranks of the Senior Enchanters. The SEs decide who will succeed a FE.

Democracy, at least a little bit.

[Medhia Nox]

KainD: So, what you're saying is... that plants perform no actions independent of programming.

Do you have proof that humans perform actions independent of programming?

[Xilizhra]

KainD: So, what you're saying is... that plants perform no actions independent of programming.

Do you have proof that humans perform actions independent of programming?

Given that humans in DA seem to have souls independent of physical programming, yes.

[Cainhurst Crow]

KainD wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Plants don't perform any actions?

Yes they don't. Saying that plants are performing any actions is the same as saying that person x is pumping blood through his veins, even though it's his heart, and he doesn't really have a direct control over that, other than killing himself, which is an emotional action. 

Plants do preform actions, and some even have reactions to their enviroments. Venus Fly traps, Mimosa pudica, Waterwheel Plants, all preform empirically observable actions.

[KainD]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Do you have proof that humans perform actions independent of programming?

People all act different. Plants all act the same. 

Modifié par KainD, 12 octobre 2013 - 04:41 .

[KainD]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Plants do preform actions, and some even have reactions to their enviroments. Venus Fly traps, Mimosa pudica, Waterwheel Plants, all preform empirically observable actions.

Those are not actions they perform through will. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

J. Reezy wrote...

KainD wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Plants don't perform any actions?

Yes they don't. Saying that plants are performing any actions is the same as saying that person x is pumping blood through his veins, even though it's his heart, and he doesn't really have a direct control over that, other than killing himself, which is an emotional action. 

The absence of conscious thought doesn't stop an action from being. What does direct control have to do with anything?

Somebody say DIRECT CONTROL?

https://encrypted-tb...rrxWlQrg7LFNaqT

[Medhia Nox]

@KainD: And how much exposure - as a botanist or horticulturalist have you had with plants?

Smoking them doesn't count.

[KainD]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Somebody say DIRECT CONTROL?

https://encrypted-tb...rrxWlQrg7LFNaqT

This is an awesome example. When someone is under direct control, they do all sorts of things that don't benefit survival at all. 

[KainD]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@KainD: And how much exposure - as a botanist or horticulturalist have you had with plants?

Smoking them doesn't count.

I took general biology education classes, it included botanics. 

Modifié par KainD, 12 octobre 2013 - 04:44 .

[Medhia Nox]

@KainD: Ahh - so, not much then.

Okay, moving on.

====

So I suppose animals don't do much either then?

Unscientific anthropomorphism aside.

[Dio Demon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

If the Circles became autonomous sections in their own right, this wouldn't be an issue. It would be a little dot of land in the countries that would be bound under its own laws. A state within a state, if you will.

So were a Mage to practice blood magic inside the Circle, he'd be legally allowed to do so. If he stepped foot onto the borders of Fereldan soil and slit his wrists while dancing naked under the moonlight, then he'd be subject to Ferelden's laws about the illegality of it all.

Isn't that essentially what the Tevinter Imperium is; except on a smaller scale?

[CynicalShep]

doublepost

Modifié par CynicalShep, 12 octobre 2013 - 04:51 .