2497 réponses à ce sujet

[cjones91]

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

[addiction21]

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Humans weren't complaining when they stole the Dales from the elves so they don't get to whine when the same thing happens to them.

Oh I see. You support the primitive idea that people inherit the sins of their fathers ergo you must support the subjugation and domination of the mage populace for inflicting the darkspawn on the world.

Stupid and misguided but whatever keeps you in line.

Lets not forget to mention that was no ones lands before it was given to the elves but the usually will selectivally forget that land was given to the elves it was never their homeland.

Modifié par addiction21, 14 octobre 2013 - 02:06 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

cjones91 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

Yes, yes they do. The current humans had nothing to do with that particular crime against elvenkind, and the vast majority of them were not accessory to any comparable ones.

[addiction21]

cjones91 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

Then you don't get to complain when the elves step up and get butchered.

[cjones91]

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Humans weren't complaining when they stole the Dales from the elves so they don't get to whine when the same thing happens to them.

Oh I see. You support the primitive idea that people inherit the sins of their fathers ergo you must support the subjugation and domination of the mage populace for inflicting the darkspawn on the world.

Stupid and misguided but whatever keeps you in line.

You sure do assume alot.I said I don't care about the Dales situation so trying to compare the elves taking back their lands to mages being unfairly blamed for something they did'nt do is absurd.

[cjones91]

addiction21 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

Then you don't get to complain when the elves step up and get butchered.

That won't happen since Orlais is in turmoil right now.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Okay. Now what does this have to do with what a player should do in-game, since in context Gaider's made pretty clear he's not going to move technology forward far enough to match magic in the space of these games?

it is like saying that atheists don't exist in da humanity will go forward unless we have world with bizarre rules and da world is more or less like our peoples still have that same desires and flaws like in our so peoples are like in our world. 

That doesn't answer the question. How exactly is the fact that Thedas will one day have modern technology that can kill every single darkspawn (and I don't think the people who advocate for this comprehend how dangerous the darkspawn are, nor how hard you'll have to look to be sure you've got them all) relevant to a medieval tech Inquisitor who's trying to decide what to do with the mages?

Who said that will be one day technology it will take ages as well next blight darkspawn are dengerous because they have outnumber others and because of archdemon after dao and daa they get a beating .Even without mages archdemon can be killed so

[Reaverwind]

cjones91 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

You're right - they get to violently resist.

[cjones91]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

Yes, yes they do. The current humans had nothing to do with that particular crime against elvenkind, and the vast majority of them were not accessory to any comparable ones.

So if someone stole land from your family,you would'nt try to get it back because the thief moved their friends/family onto the land?

[Silfren]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Humans have so much land at this point ,that to argue that they would be in trouble if they left a land that was never theirs to begin with is pretty out there.

This is an unbelievably stupid assertion.

Humans are not an organized, unified group. Uprooting and deporting an entire population to a foreign land is  undoubtedly going to cause suffering, hostility and discontent to those being uprooted, those being forced to accept the influx of refugees and those who are responsible for the forced exile.

I need not even point out the silliness of the "never theirs to begin with" argument.

So it's okay to do to Elves, and only becomes reprehensible when applied to humans?

Aren't  double standards fun?Next thing he will say is it's somehow wrong to launch a attack on human lands and force them to live as nomads but the elves deserve it.

No. The point is that it's wrong to do it elves therefore it's also wrong to do it humans. If you think what happened to the elves is wrong, but think that the elves should reclaim the Dales and force all humans there off their lands then THAT is the double standard.

Hardly.  I'm thinking that reclaiming your land that was stolen from you is hardly a double standard.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

cjones91 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

Yes, yes they do. The current humans had nothing to do with that particular crime against elvenkind, and the vast majority of them were not accessory to any comparable ones.

So if someone stole land from your family,you would'nt try to get it back because the thief moved their friends/family onto the land?

The original claimants of the elven land are dead. Their direct heirs are dead. The direct heirs direct heirs are dead, as are their direct heirs. And ditto for the original offenders. By this point I'd call it quits, unless the land was big enough to share. (And there's at least one large city in the Dales, so there's that.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 octobre 2013 - 02:16 .

[cjones91]

Reaverwind wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

You're right - they get to violently resist.

It's kind of funny really.....it's like a thief complaining about someone robbing them,most people would just roll their eyes and say karma got them.Yet when the elves want to get back something that's dear to them people just want them to shut up and die.

Modifié par cjones91, 14 octobre 2013 - 02:15 .

[GodWood]

cjones91 wrote...
You sure do assume alot.I said I don't care about the Dales situation

Yet you see the expulsion and suffering of a group of people justified by virtue of their race.

so trying to compare the elves taking back their lands

Elves haven't 'owned' or lived in those lands in hundreds of years. Meanwhile the humans have been living there for generations.

to mages being unfairly blamed for something they did'nt do is absurd.

Yet it is not so when it is humans.

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Okay. Now what does this have to do with what a player should do in-game, since in context Gaider's made pretty clear he's not going to move technology forward far enough to match magic in the space of these games?

it is like saying that atheists don't exist in da humanity will go forward unless we have world with bizarre rules and da world is more or less like our peoples still have that same desires and flaws like in our so peoples are like in our world. 

That doesn't answer the question. How exactly is the fact that Thedas will one day have modern technology that can kill every single darkspawn (and I don't think the people who advocate for this comprehend how dangerous the darkspawn are, nor how hard you'll have to look to be sure you've got them all) relevant to a medieval tech Inquisitor who's trying to decide what to do with the mages?

Who said that will be one day technology it will take ages as well next blight darkspawn are dengerous because they have outnumber others and because of archdemon after dao and daa they get a beating .Even without mages archdemon can be killed so

You keep saying the archdemon can be killed without mages, but it patently cannot.  Without the Grey Wardens the archdemon cannot be permanently killed, and without the Joining there are no Grey Wardens...but without mages there is no Joining.  But you ALSO forget that there's always a sea of darkspawn to deal with at the same time.  Mages may not be absolutely vital for this as they are against the Archdemon itself, but only a fool would deny the distinct advantage that having mages provides...especially since the darkspawn have their own mages.

[addiction21]

cjones91 wrote...

That won't happen since Orlais is in turmoil right now.

Yes because Orlais is the total population of Thedas and just remind me. What happened the last time the elves marched a army and started sacking cities?

You are the elves worst enemy.

[Silfren]

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
You sure do assume alot.I said I don't care about the Dales situation

Yet you see the expulsion and suffering of a group of people justified by virtue of their race.

so trying to compare the elves taking back their lands

Elves haven't 'owned' or lived in those lands in hundreds of years. Meanwhile the humans have been living there for generations.

For the very reason that this argument didn't matter to the humans when they originally stole the land from the Elves when they had lived there for generations, I'm finding it hard to be sympathetic.

[Reaverwind]

cjones91 wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

You're right - they get to violently resist.

It's kind of funny really.....it's like a thief complaining about someone robbing them,most people would just roll their eyes and say karma got them.Yet when the elves want to get back something that's dear to them people just want them to shut up and die.

Uh huh - just not buying that garbage. It's comparable to forcibly relocating the state of New York to return land to the natives. Not going to happen.

[cjones91]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Like I said before,humans have been treating elves like **** for hundreds of years.They don't get to complain when the elves try to take back their lands that were stolen from them centuries before.

Yes, yes they do. The current humans had nothing to do with that particular crime against elvenkind, and the vast majority of them were not accessory to any comparable ones.

So if someone stole land from your family,you would'nt try to get it back because the thief moved their friends/family onto the land?

The original claimants of the elven land are dead. Their direct heirs are dead. The direct heirs direct heirs are dead, as are their direct heirs. And ditto for the original offenders. By this point I'd call it quits, unless the land was big enough to share. (And there's at least one large city in the Dales, so there's that.)

But if that land was special to you where generations of your family had lived and died on, then surely it's not immoral to take it back from thieves no matter if their descendants had nothing to do with the theft?Most wealthy people fight for property that was stolen from them and there were even courts that settled disputes over stolen land.

[GodWood]

Silfren wrote...
For the very reason that this argument didn't matter to the humans when they originally stole the land from the Elves when they had lived there for generations, I'm finding it hard to be sympathetic.

The humans that supposedly stole the land are dead. The elves who owned the land are dead.

Modifié par GodWood, 14 octobre 2013 - 02:29 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Okay. Now what does this have to do with what a player should do in-game, since in context Gaider's made pretty clear he's not going to move technology forward far enough to match magic in the space of these games?

it is like saying that atheists don't exist in da humanity will go forward unless we have world with bizarre rules and da world is more or less like our peoples still have that same desires and flaws like in our so peoples are like in our world. 

That doesn't answer the question. How exactly is the fact that Thedas will one day have modern technology that can kill every single darkspawn (and I don't think the people who advocate for this comprehend how dangerous the darkspawn are, nor how hard you'll have to look to be sure you've got them all) relevant to a medieval tech Inquisitor who's trying to decide what to do with the mages?

Who said that will be one day technology it will take ages as well next blight darkspawn are dengerous because they have outnumber others and because of archdemon after dao and daa they get a beating .Even without mages archdemon can be killed so

You keep saying the archdemon can be killed without mages, but it patently cannot.  Without the Grey Wardens the archdemon cannot be permanently killed, and without the Joining there are no Grey Wardens...but without mages there is no Joining.  But you ALSO forget that there's always a sea of darkspawn to deal with at the same time.  Mages may not be absolutely vital for this as they are against the Archdemon itself, but only a fool would deny the distinct advantage that having mages provides...especially since the darkspawn have their own mages.

i don't think that having walking bombs who are five second demon is advantage magic isn't so powerful otherwise mages would be free much earlier.How much mages do you even need for joining 3-5 and it will be good and that if you need them.So army of abomnations we seen in both games should be prove that mages aren't advantage.  

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Silfren wrote...

Hardly.  I'm thinking that reclaiming your land that was stolen from you is hardly a double standard.

Ethnic cleansing is always wrong. Saying it's only wrong to happen to one people, but right for others IS a double standard.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 14 octobre 2013 - 02:22 .

[The Hierophant]

Thieves i thought the Dalish lost that land after they invaded Val Royeaux and lost the conflict?

[cjones91]

addiction21 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

That won't happen since Orlais is in turmoil right now.

Yes because Orlais is the total population of Thedas and just remind me. What happened the last time the elves marched a army and started sacking cities?

You are the elves worst enemy.

Orlais was the one who stole the Dales and hardly anyone is going to help when they have problems of their own.Why should the other nations get involved when they had no involvement in the Dales being stolen?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

cjones91 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Yes, yes they do. The current humans had nothing to do with that particular crime against elvenkind, and the vast majority of them were not accessory to any comparable ones.

So if someone stole land from your family,you would'nt try to get it back because the thief moved their friends/family onto the land?

The original claimants of the elven land are dead. Their direct heirs are dead. The direct heirs direct heirs are dead, as are their direct heirs. And ditto for the original offenders. By this point I'd call it quits, unless the land was big enough to share. (And there's at least one large city in the Dales, so there's that.)

But if that land was special to you where generations of your family had lived and died on, then surely it's not immoral to take it back from thieves no matter if their descendants had nothing to do with the theft?Most wealthy people fight for property that was stolen from them and there were even courts that settled disputes over stolen land.

To the expense of people who have had the land for so long as to have similar motivation to defend it? Who have noplace else to stay due to the way poor Orlesians are treated? And when the land is manifestly large enough to have room for the descendents of both parties?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 octobre 2013 - 02:23 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

cjones91 wrote...
You sure do assume alot.I said I don't care about the Dales situation so trying to compare the elves taking back their lands to mages being unfairly blamed for something they did'nt do is absurd.

The humans who live in the Dales today didn't steal it from the elves. Why are humans guilty by association for crimes centuries ago but mages are not?