2497 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

I'm so sorry that being given a fair amount of land isn't the greatest gift ever for being one of the allies recruited to help defend Ferelden. Clearly Anora should have gifted the the Dales, not being in her territory and all.

Looks like Leaguer disagrees about it being a bug. ~_^

[Cainhurst Crow]

Silfren wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The human families in the dales have been living in the dales longer than any of these dalish clans have. That to me gives both of them claim to the land. If it were up to me, both would be allowed ti live in the land. If they can't co-exist in the territory, than whoever tries to drive the other out or causes unneeded problems should not be allowed the land anymore.

How would you account for individuals acting badly as opposed to carrying out predations sanctioned by the whole?  Even if elves and humans somehow did reach a consensus and signed a treaty, there is no reason to think that the odd lone individual or group wouldn't violate it.   The whole "you share the land, and the first one of you to violate the treaty gets moved out" is a very untenable solution.  At the bare minimum you would have one group trying to provoke an attack by the other in order to make them violate the terms, etc.  And if individual skirmishes did break out, who did what first would ultimately be a very difficult thing to prove.  And since humans have the advantage of numbers and the automatic sympathies of other humans....well.  Let's just say that this scenario still puts the elves at a distinct disadvantage.

Just a cursory look at the relations between, say, the native peoples of the Americas, and European colonialists, would show plainly how riddled with holes such a "solution" actually is.

Well, outside of a compromise,  there's a choice between the elves staying nomadic or displacing thousands of humans with hundreds of years of history on the land.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...


By which logic dragons are completely powerless, since I'm given to understand Cassandra kills two of them? What a PC or other main character can do doesn't really represent what an average peasant, average assassin, or even average soldier can do.

Completly powerless not but she killed 2 young dragons not high-dragon 2 slavers or small group of assasin was enough to mage must escape or turn into abomnation so wong...

Nor do you sepak about proper spelling and grammar.

You are clearly speaking about gameplay with much of that. And a flamethrower is a lot less weak than it's represented as in-game. And if people aren't crying out in pain, blistering all over, and looking like Sandor Clegane decades after, I'll have to conclude the same about the other media. For a more accurate look at what magical fire would look like, see the image from Dragon Age: Until We Sleep where a Qunari is melting.

Wait wait do you even know what gameplay is and that cutscenes aren't gameplay?

They are beaten by main characters. And not always without losses. I'm pretty sure someone with an actual name dies at the end of Redemption.

Slavers are main character? Assasins after sketch are main characters? Seekers not couting cassandra are main characters?Leliana in da 2 is main character?Templars in asunder are main characters?

[BlueMagitek]

Silfren wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well that's because the Dalish decide to uproot themselves and move to Kirkwall. Not Ferelden's fault.

That wasn't the Dalish.  It was a single clan.

Yes, the Dalish Clan gifted the land in the first place.  If your Warden is Dalish, anyway.

The Dalish also have settlements near Anivia (or Rivain, it was one or the other).  You're asking a group of nomads, some of which are perfectly happy with their lifestyle, to abandon their current path to go to an unsettled land.  Oh, and the people who are supposed to be doing the groundwork ran off to Kirkwall.  Sounds attractive.

[Silfren]

leaguer of one wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Even if you aren't a Dalish Warden, the Dalish are afforded the Hinterlands, I believe, if they assist against the Blight.

That's a glitch.

No It's not...
http://dragonage.wik...ilogue_(Origins)

A Dalish[/b] Warden may ask that the Dalish be officially granted territorial sovereignty.Note:[/b] If Nature of the Beast is resolved in favor of the elves, the Dalish are given lands during the epilogue even if this boon isn't chosen. However, the Dalish will only receive the Hinterlands if the Dalish Warden requests this boon.[/list][/list]These are the gliches...

Bug![/b]  If Anora is queen and you opted to take Morrigan up on her dark promise, requesting from the queen that the Grey Wardens not be forgotten causes her to speak of Alistair as if he were dead, yet he is standing near you on the dais.Bug![/b]  If Alistair was not made King, Morrigan's dark ritual was accepted, and Loghain was executed at the Landsmeet, you must select Alistair for your final group in Denerim to face the Archdemon if you wish him to appear at the coronation. If he is left behind to defend the gate, he will be absent from the coronation.Bug![/b]  If Alistair marries Anora but sacrifices himself to kill the Archdemon, the Epilogue will state that Alistair and Anora ruled jointly.
If Alistair is king and the Warden lives, the epilogue slide for the alienage will be the same regardless of whether this boon was chosen; a 'bad flag' is preventing alternative slides from triggering. It will only mention that the Hahren has been raised to the court of Denerim, upsetting the nobility.

Did you bother reading this part of that page?  "If Dalish, the Warden may request that land be granted to his/her people (the Dalish will only be given the Hinterlands at the Warden's request; a bug shows this epilogue slide for all Wardens as long as Lanaya becomes the new Keeper).

Modifié par Silfren, 14 octobre 2013 - 03:41 .

[Silfren]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Silfren wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well that's because the Dalish decide to uproot themselves and move to Kirkwall. Not Ferelden's fault.

That wasn't the Dalish.  It was a single clan.

Yes, the Dalish Clan gifted the land in the first place.  If your Warden is Dalish, anyway.

The Dalish also have settlements near Anivia (or Rivain, it was one or the other).  You're asking a group of nomads, some of which are perfectly happy with their lifestyle, to abandon their current path to go to an unsettled land.  Oh, and the people who are supposed to be doing the groundwork ran off to Kirkwall.  Sounds attractive.

Regardless, the gift was given to the Dalish as a whole, not a singular clan.  That Marethari felt there was a reason for the clan to sojourn in Kirkwall is irrelevant to this.

[BlueMagitek]

You're missing the part where the Dalish get land anyway.

"If Nature of the Beast is resolved in favor of the elves, the Dalish are given lands during the epilogue even if this boon isn't chosen. However, the Dalish will only receive the Hinterlands if the Dalish Warden requests this boon."

So either way they get land, just more if the Warden is Dalish.

[Silfren]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Silfren wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well that's because the Dalish decide to uproot themselves and move to Kirkwall. Not Ferelden's fault.

That wasn't the Dalish.  It was a single clan.

Yes, the Dalish Clan gifted the land in the first place.  If your Warden is Dalish, anyway.

The Dalish also have settlements near Anivia (or Rivain, it was one or the other).  You're asking a group of nomads, some of which are perfectly happy with their lifestyle, to abandon their current path to go to an unsettled land.  Oh, and the people who are supposed to be doing the groundwork ran off to Kirkwall.  Sounds attractive.

Er, no, I'm not asking a group of nomads to do any such thing.  I simply jumped into the argument over whether the Dalish would be in the right to reclaim ancestral lands against the current human squatters.  

[Silfren]

BlueMagitek wrote...

You're missing the part where the Dalish get land anyway.

"If Nature of the Beast is resolved in favor of the elves, the Dalish are given lands during the epilogue even if this boon isn't chosen. However, the Dalish will only receive the Hinterlands if the Dalish Warden requests this boon."

So either way they get land, just more if the Warden is Dalish.

And the fact remains, that part of the epilogue is part and parcel of the Dalish boon.  If you get it without having that boon, it IS a bug.  Deal with it.

[BlueMagitek]

Silfren wrote...

Regardless, the gift was given to the Dalish as a whole, not a singular clan.  That Marethari felt there was a reason for the clan to sojourn in Kirkwall is irrelevant to this.

Yes but is there any evidence that she let any other clan know?  The Sabre clan might know if they're alive. 

So why is it that they just don't go back there?  I've heard that Merrill makes some implication with Alistair, but that could range from natural disaster to being forced out by humans to another Keeper going crazy and getting everyone killed.

[TEWR]

leaguer of one wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Even if you aren't a Dalish Warden, the Dalish are afforded the Hinterlands, I believe, if they assist against the Blight.

That's a glitch.

No It's not...
http://dragonage.wik...ilogue_(Origins)

A Dalish[/b] Warden may ask that the Dalish be officially granted territorial sovereignty.Note:[/b] If Nature of the Beast is resolved in favor of the elves, the Dalish are given lands during the epilogue even if this boon isn't chosen. However, the Dalish will only receive the Hinterlands if the Dalish Warden requests this boon.[/list][/list]

Bolded mine.

While in Origins the Dalish will receive land no matter what, in the context of how the game was indeed supposed to handle this (meaning dev comments and whatnot) only the Dalish Warden's request is treated as having actually happened, which is the reason why the premise will only be imported in a Dalish playthrough, wherein Alistair acknowledges it.

And for what it's worth, his comments indicate that the Dalish weren't at fault for why the idea went badly.

Just because the wiki says something, doesn't mean it's accurate. The DA wiki is written by the fans, and information is always falling through the cracks.

Whether it's a bug or not is irrelevant. Semantics is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that the only way the Dalish-land premise is considered to have happened is if you play a Dalish Warden.

This does not stop Bioware from adding it on later, though it would've been nice if they would've had the Merrill-Alistair dialogue happen regardless in DAII, should they choose for the future to go "Well let's say it did happen."

[BlueMagitek]

Silfren wrote...

And the fact remains, that part of the epilogue is part and parcel of the Dalish boon.  If you get it without having that boon, it IS a bug.  Deal with it.

And as I have shown, Bioware acknowledges prominent bugs.  If this does play every time the Dalish aren't destroyed, they'll most likely acknowledge it in some way.

[Silfren]

leaguer of one wrote...

Silfren wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Silfren wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

GodWood wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Personally I would see it as karma

Expelling a population of oppressed peasants who had no involvement in an even that happened hundreds of years ago?

Humans weren't complaining when they stole the Dales from the elves so they don't get to whine when the same thing happens to them.

Oh I see. You support the primitive idea that people inherit the sins of their fathers ergo you must support the subjugation and domination of the mage populace for inflicting the darkspawn on the world.

Stupid and misguided but whatever keeps you in line.

I agree with Gowood. Exiling humans out of the dales would start more wars. The elves can make any proper place there home land.

Unless and until the humans decide they want it, you mean.  If real world history is any indication, Elves couldn't just pick any "proper" place because sooner or later the humans would become aware of the qualities of that land and try to expel the elves yet again.  The only time such a people are ever left alone is when that land is truly worthless.

But that Elves do have places that humans allow them to have land like that.... In Rivan and inFerelden if you are a dalish warden. Even the commoner warden has there own Arl ship,

Keyword, the humans "allow" them this land.  See the problem? 

The epilogue in Origins that refers to the Dalish land also indicates that it hardly resolves all the problems between elves and humans, and anyway, we all already know that none of the epilogues can be taken as gospel.

Sorry but Elve can't get a sovergin with out human support. Even the Dales was given to them because of Andraste. So what if there is some problem with hUman with the new land, that does not mean it will not be worked out. It would be far less problmatic that trying to take and hold the dales.

I don't agree that they have to have human support to have their own lands.  But I should note that if the aforementioned Right of Conquest is a thing, then it stands to reason that humans wouldn't have a problem with elves recapturing any land.  I mean, Right of Conquest, right? Right?  Amirite?  I guess not, since that's not the reality of how humans would react.

Were there a quality, unclaimed and unspoiled land available, I would totally support the elves taking that, but I don't agree that they would require human support.  They'd probably have to deal with human greed, but....

The only thing the Elves would have to have from humans is the right to be left the f*ck alone. 

[Silfren]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Silfren wrote...

And the fact remains, that part of the epilogue is part and parcel of the Dalish boon.  If you get it without having that boon, it IS a bug.  Deal with it.

And as I have shown, Bioware acknowledges prominent bugs.  If this does play every time the Dalish aren't destroyed, they'll most likely acknowledge it in some way.

Until they actually do, however you can't really use this to mean anything about this particular issue.

[Xilizhra]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Silfren wrote...

And the fact remains, that part of the epilogue is part and parcel of the Dalish boon.  If you get it without having that boon, it IS a bug.  Deal with it.

And as I have shown, Bioware acknowledges prominent bugs.  If this does play every time the Dalish aren't destroyed, they'll most likely acknowledge it in some way.

It's acknowledged in DA2 if you bring Merrill to the meeting with King Alistair... for Dalish Wardens only.

[TEWR]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Regardless, the gift was given to the Dalish as a whole, not a singular clan.  That Marethari felt there was a reason for the clan to sojourn in Kirkwall is irrelevant to this.

Yes but is there any evidence that she let any other clan know?  The Sabre clan might know if they're alive. 

So why is it that they just don't go back there?

No halla. No money. No love in the human lands.

I've heard that Merrill makes some implication with Alistair, but that could range from natural disaster to being forced out by humans to another Keeper going crazy and getting everyone killed.

Alistair makes the implication that says that the Elves were not at fault for why this idea failed. Merrill simply asks if the rumors were true.

Which, honestly, kinda bugs me because Mahariel's godmother equivalent was a part of that clan, so unless she got killed by bandits on the way there the Sabrae clan should've known.

But then you have to wonder why she wouldn't have been given some sort of escort considering she was savvy to important information and would've served as a faux-ambassador.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 octobre 2013 - 03:52 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...


By which logic dragons are completely powerless, since I'm given to understand Cassandra kills two of them? What a PC or other main character can do doesn't really represent what an average peasant, average assassin, or even average soldier can do.

Completly powerless not but she killed 2 young dragons not high-dragon 2 slavers or small group of assasin was enough to mage must escape or turn into abomnation so wong...

Because they don't wear armor, most of the time. You know, in the name of mages not being insanely OP. And if you're referring to Grace, I don't think she was combat trained.

Nor do you sepak about proper spelling and grammar.

You are clearly speaking about gameplay with much of that. And a flamethrower is a lot less weak than it's represented as in-game. And if people aren't crying out in pain, blistering all over, and looking like Sandor Clegane decades after, I'll have to conclude the same about the other media. For a more accurate look at what magical fire would look like, see the image from Dragon Age: Until We Sleep where a Qunari is melting.

Wait wait do you even know what gameplay is and that cutscenes aren't gameplay?

There weren't any cutscenes jumping to mind for much of what you described. Also, not my main point.

They are beaten by main characters. And not always without losses. I'm pretty sure someone with an actual name dies at the end of Redemption.

Slavers are main character? Assasins after sketch are main characters? Seekers not couting cassandra are main characters?Leliana in da 2 is main character?Templars in asunder are main characters?

Templars are specifically able to block magic. That's not the Templar being more powerful than the mage, it's the Templar being specifically the worst thing a mage can run across. Seekers are trained templars as well, I believe. We don't see Sketch failing to take on the assassins, either, and even if we did that's not evidence that magic isn't powerful. Guns are better weapons than swords; that doesn't mean you want the swordsman to get too close. And the only time we see slavers going after mages successfully (to the best of my memory) those mages weren't combat trained. And Danzig was a mage. As for Leiliana, yes, she is a main character or the equivalent. Or have you missed that she was a companion in DA;O, had her own DLC, and has been basically stated to have a part in Inquisition?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 octobre 2013 - 03:59 .

[BlueMagitek]

It's exceptionally weird to see someone arguing for segregation based on race/species. >_>

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It was a gift to all the Dalish, not just the Sabrae Clan. After all, Merrill said they had heard the Dalish were given land. How could that be if it was only for them and they never went?

We don't know what went wrong. All Alistair's dialouge seems to imply is that he believes it's something he could and still should make up to the Dalish becuase he owes it to the Hero of Ferelden.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 14 octobre 2013 - 03:52 .

[leaguer of one]

Silfren wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

You're missing the part where the Dalish get land anyway.

"If Nature of the Beast is resolved in favor of the elves, the Dalish are given lands during the epilogue even if this boon isn't chosen. However, the Dalish will only receive the Hinterlands if the Dalish Warden requests this boon."

So either way they get land, just more if the Warden is Dalish.

And the fact remains, that part of the epilogue is part and parcel of the Dalish boon.  If you get it without having that boon, it IS a bug.  Deal with it.

But it still means it's possible to be there. They can have lands in fereldin as sovereignty. Added we also have lands in Rivain.

[BlueMagitek]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

No halla. No money. No love in the human lands.

Alistair makes the implication that says that the Elves were not at fault for why this idea failed. Merrill simply asks if the rumors were true.

Which, honestly, kinda bugs me because Mahariel's godmother equivalent was a part of that clan, so unless she got killed by bandits on the way there the Sabrae clan should've known.

And Merrill.  Well skilled woodworkers would most certainly be able to make at least some money over ten years.

Oh?  Well it's Alistair, considering the Dalish didn't kill Duncan he has all the heartstrings left to pull.  But if there were Dalish at Ostagar, phew, man, he'd be more for killing them off than Shale protecting Cairdan. 

Seriously though, with just an implication that can still range from there being a natural disaster and humans didn't help to humans being actively hostile (which would be very weird because to get there they'd more or less need to go through blighted lands.... not really worth the effort).

I recall that

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm inclined to think it's a bug in the epilogues, because I took Merrill with me to see King Alistair in my Human Noble and Dalish Elf imports and she only spoke during the latter.

[BlueMagitek]

Silfren wrote...

Until they actually do, however you can't really use this to mean anything about this particular issue.

Then they still have settlements in Rivain which don't appear to be harassed any more than a normal settlement.

[Silfren]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I'm so sorry that being given a fair amount of land isn't the greatest gift ever for being one of the allies recruited to help defend Ferelden. Clearly Anora should have gifted the the Dales, not being in her territory and all.

Looks like Leaguer disagrees about it being a bug. ~_^

You can't see how being given lands worthless to humans isn't really an awesome gift?  It's basically a way of saying "well, sincethis land is worthless to me and my people, and nobody wants it anyway, and therefore none of my subjects will be terribly put out over it, I can totally afford to oh-so-generously give you this worthless stretch of land."

[Silfren]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

It was a gift to all the Dalish, not just the Sabrae Clan. After all, Merrill said they had heard the Dalish were given land. How could that be if it was only for them and they never went?

We don't know what went wrong. All Alistair's dialouge seems to imply is that he believes it's something he could and still should make up to the Dalish becuase he owes it to the Hero of Ferelden.

Wait?  Is that how that dialogue goes down?  Merrill says that her clan heard the Dalish were given land?  Now that IS odd, since it was that clan's Keeper who was present when the boon was granted.