2497 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
.....

1.Wait what she didn't want draw attention and she didn't kill spiders because of that but she sends the warden to kill them wait what?

2.?

3.well not that we heard about rampages by one guy who killed dozens with gun.

4.corry vs non mage hawke finisher shows that not only templars can avoide spells.

5.again back to sketch who was trained in combat mage but can't handle few guys with warrior on his side. 

6.Where and how?

Silfren wrote...
...

1. trained person would shoot them without problems and sketch was trained.
2.Is that well probably is but country still is alive only because blood magic and well and is fueled by that not officially of course.Qunari doesn't waste resources thats why. 

Re: the point about guns and swordsmen:  gunmen rampages are not comparable to the original point because they usually involve taking unarmed people by surprise.  Also, even trained gunmen are going to be hard pressed against multiple people armed with swords.  Even trained people aren't infallible, and again, unless you're sporting a gun with hi-capacity ammo, you're liable to run out of ammo before your opponents are dead.  Being a trained gunfighter doesn't make you a Hollywood crackshot. 

Re: the qunari...wow, but you're damned good at bringing up irrelevancies, huh?  The REASON that the qunari keep their mages around is beside the point, which is that they use mages in their battles, which means it would be stupid to not use mages against them.  So far as I know, Templars are only good in a fight against mages in close quarters, whereas mages can fight from a fair distance, and it hardly makes sense to wait that long to raise a defense against Qunari magical forces.  But I DO have to point out that since the Qunari don't waste resources, why the HELL should the rest of Thedas?  If the Qunari keep one of their best weapons on hand, it would be blatantly stupid for everyone else to forfeit theirs.  

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

What do you think? Trolling, or just unable to admit error?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 octobre 2013 - 05:31 .

[Silfren]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

What do you think? Trolling, or just unable to admit error?

Hard to say, really, the way they swear gameplay and Hollywood badassery trumps official lore.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
...

1.Wait what she have key to door and is store overseer it is very suspicious that overseer is in store.

2.if you fight with peasant sure.

3.If someone would be such idiot and let them to do that true.

4.Still non-mage hawke defated one of strongest mages ever.

5.i answered that already.

6.eee yeah depending on what gun you have sure if they are scattered that might be trouble but they weren't here.

7.To be honest i don't see blood magic as something morally wrong however it makes you an easier target for possession much easier so again if we don't want abomnation army on our side well who kills ours peoples i doubt that you want blood magic just look on plot and see what magic (blood) caused.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
.....

1.Wait what she didn't want draw attention and she didn't kill spiders because of that but she sends the warden to kill them wait what?

2.?

3.well not that we heard about rampages by one guy who killed dozens with gun.

4.corry vs non mage hawke finisher shows that not only templars can avoide spells.

5.again back to sketch who was trained in combat mage but can't handle few guys with warrior on his side. 

6.Where and how?

Silfren wrote...
...

1. trained person would shoot them without problems and sketch was trained.
2.Is that well probably is but country still is alive only because blood magic and well and is fueled by that not officially of course.Qunari doesn't waste resources thats why. 

Re: the qunari...wow, but you're damned good at bringing up irrelevancies, huh?  The REASON that the qunari keep their mages around is beside the point, which is that they use mages in their battles, which means it would be stupid to not use mages against them.  So far as I know, Templars are only good in a fight against mages in close quarters, whereas mages can fight from a fair distance, and it hardly makes sense to wait that long to raise a defense against Qunari magical forces.  But I DO have to point out that since the Qunari don't waste resources, why the HELL should the rest of Thedas?  If the Qunari keep one of their best weapons on hand, it would be blatantly stupid for everyone else to forfeit theirs.  

yy hello qunari brings everything what can fight they don't waste resources and it isn't irrevelant because they will bring squirrel if it will fight with enemy so i don't see don't have few soldiers more.And collar for mages they neutralized danger of mages to minimum but for me that pri***.
about guns i responded on that before and i doubt that this is best weapon.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
...

1.Wait what she have key to door and is store overseer it is very suspicious that overseer is in store.

She's overseeing the store. Of course she's in it.

2.if you fight with peasant sure.

... you think you have to be a peasant to be afraid of flamethrowers?

3.If someone would be such idiot and let them to do that true.

It's not necessarily a matter of volition. Several charging at once, distanced so you can't get them all at once? Doable.

4.Still non-mage hawke defated one of strongest mages ever.

Probably by getting close and stabbing, the way the assassins would have killed Sketch. (Though is it really outright stated that he couldn't have gotten them all?)

5.i answered that already.

6.eee yeah depending on what gun you have sure if they are scattered that might be trouble but they weren't here.

Or if they come up behind. Point is, power isn't the final arbiter.

7.To be honest i don't see blood magic as something morally wrong however it makes you an easier target for possession much easier so again if we don't want abomnation army on our side well who kills ours peoples i doubt that you want blood magic just look on plot and see what magic (blood) caused.

Do we have anything that really proves that bit of lore is true? That blood mages really are easier targets for possession? It's plausible, but the only source we have it from is also (from the dev quotes) mistaken on whether or not blood magic is innately corruptive.

[dragonflight288]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
...

1.Wait what she have key to door and is store overseer it is very suspicious that overseer is in store.

She had only been promoted two weeks earlier and didn't want to appear incompetent...although her actions to make her appear more competent actually only highlighted her own incompetence. That doesn't make a case that magic is weak.

2.if you fight with peasant sure.

If this is still about the gun thing, then I can answer since I have a few guns myself and I go out to the range regularly to shoot them. (3 handguns, a compact bow, a 22 rifle and a hunting rifle. I sometimes shoot my brother's shotgun.)

I have a gun for nearly every range, but without proper training, it is very easy to have the gun go off and shoot your own foot, if you try shooting from the hip like the movies. It's also really easy to forget to take off the safety and lose 5 seconds. If someone is running at me with a sword and I forgot the safety on the gun was on, by the time I turned it off and aimed, I'd have already lost my head. If I did have a handgun aimed and ready to go against a group of people, I better hope I'm a crackshot. If I hit something non-vital, I may take them down but I won't take them out, and a few moments later they can be up and going again, not at 100%, and likely not as fast, but with numbers and limited ammo, that's all that may be needed.

Guns arent the solve-all kill-all with one shot that Hollywood presents them to be.

3.If someone would be such idiot and let them to do that true.

Okay...I've actually forgotten what the rest of what you're responding to is, so I have to go back and look it up before I can add my own two cents for the rest of these, including this number 3.

Will get to it shortly.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 14 octobre 2013 - 05:48 .

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
...

1.Wait what she have key to door and is store overseer it is very suspicious that overseer is in store.

It's not suspicious, but given she didn't want to leave her post, it is reasonable to conclude that she thought if she went to the storeroom and was gone for a lengthy period, her absence would be noticed and her screwup discovered--say, if someone assumed she was in the storeroom and followed her in there to find her.  And hey, maybe she was just afraid of spiders.  =) And before you try it, it's plenty conceivable that a mage could forget about having the ability to nuke a spider before it gets close--that very thing happens to plenty of real people with arachnophobia, lol

4.Still non-mage hawke defated one of strongest mages ever.

Doesn't mean much of anything given that mage Hawke can do it, too.

[Br3admax]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Guns arent the solve-all kill-all with one shot that Hollywood presents them to be.

Percisely. But these are trained individuals. Very cunning and very dangerous. That is why I recommend an ogre for every mage.

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
.....

1.Wait what she didn't want draw attention and she didn't kill spiders because of that but she sends the warden to kill them wait what?

2.?

3.well not that we heard about rampages by one guy who killed dozens with gun.

4.corry vs non mage hawke finisher shows that not only templars can avoide spells.

5.again back to sketch who was trained in combat mage but can't handle few guys with warrior on his side. 

6.Where and how?

Silfren wrote...
...

1. trained person would shoot them without problems and sketch was trained.
2.Is that well probably is but country still is alive only because blood magic and well and is fueled by that not officially of course.Qunari doesn't waste resources thats why. 

Re: the qunari...wow, but you're damned good at bringing up irrelevancies, huh?  The REASON that the qunari keep their mages around is beside the point, which is that they use mages in their battles, which means it would be stupid to not use mages against them.  So far as I know, Templars are only good in a fight against mages in close quarters, whereas mages can fight from a fair distance, and it hardly makes sense to wait that long to raise a defense against Qunari magical forces.  But I DO have to point out that since the Qunari don't waste resources, why the HELL should the rest of Thedas?  If the Qunari keep one of their best weapons on hand, it would be blatantly stupid for everyone else to forfeit theirs.  

yy hello qunari brings everything what can fight they don't waste resources and it isn't irrevelant because they will bring squirrel if it will fight with enemy so i don't see don't have few soldiers more.And collar for mages they neutralized danger of mages to minimum but for me that pri***.
about guns i responded on that before and i doubt that this is best weapon.

Well yes, that qunari don't waste resources only covers the REASON they don't get rid of their mages, and instead use them in battle, but otherwise doesn't have anything to do with the price of tea in China.  The point simply is that they DO make use of their mages, so it would be stupid for armies fighting against them not to use their mages, too.

Having said that, your last paragraph is kind of, well, totally incomprehensible. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Silfren wrote...

You're not even making sense, and if you're claiming magic is weak you are completely disregarding the lore.  Certainly you shouldn't be using gameplay for your argument.  And you can't say that the nations of Thedas can win against the Qunari when the lore has been very clear that it's specifically due to the powers of mages that the Qunari have been held in check. 

This one is actually not entirely correct.

The nations of Thedas stopped the Qunari advance and the battle was essentially a draw. No side could gain enough of an advantage to push. Historical wars like that have been one by one side or the other eventually.

Now, once mages joined TheDas pushed the Qunari back. But to say they COULDN'T win without mages is not correct. We simply do not know, but what it is possible is that they could win without them.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Silfren wrote...

Theory shmeory.  The odds of being able to kill every last darkspawn, down to the last individual, is a difficult enough venture that it's not worth positing as a viable solution at all.

It is a viable solution.
Darkspawn aren't human that can mingle and hide easily in the nmasses. They are very destinct and hteir presence easily detected (partially due to the Blighting effect too)

Humans have eradicated entire species . So possible. Get enough people and eanought tech and be patient and metodical enough and you can do it.

Of course, it would help if you have machineguns.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

Personally I would see it as karma but I don't really care if the elves get back the Dales or not.What I do care about is this notion that if the elves forced the humans off the Dales that it's somehow worse that what happened to them ten times over during the past couple of centuries.

You want to apply karma to humanity as a whole and groups of people unconnected to the crimes?
How is that karmic at all?
Karma is about repaing the consequences of immoral/bad actions - but when those innocent of those action reap the bitter consequences, that is not karma.

And bt.w. - two wrongs don't make a right.
You are trying to enumerate it one some scale of "horriblness" and argue that if it's less horrible than what happened to the elves, it's somehow OK. No, it's not.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I have the strangest feeling that there's been a plot lost somewhere.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Theory shmeory.  The odds of being able to kill every last darkspawn, down to the last individual, is a difficult enough venture that it's not worth positing as a viable solution at all.

It is a viable solution.
Darkspawn aren't human that can mingle and hide easily in the nmasses. They are very destinct and hteir presence easily detected (partially due to the Blighting effect too)

Humans have eradicated entire species . So possible. Get enough people and eanought tech and be patient and metodical enough and you can do it.

Of course, it would help if you have machineguns.

With only the current levels of technology (which is pretty much required in context of the games) and no magic (which is the premise), it's impossible. Even the golems weren't enough to wipe out the darkspawn.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 octobre 2013 - 07:15 .

[Silfren]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Theory shmeory.  The odds of being able to kill every last darkspawn, down to the last individual, is a difficult enough venture that it's not worth positing as a viable solution at all.

It is a viable solution.
Darkspawn aren't human that can mingle and hide easily in the nmasses. They are very destinct and hteir presence easily detected (partially due to the Blighting effect too)

Humans have eradicated entire species . So possible. Get enough people and eanought tech and be patient and metodical enough and you can do it.

Of course, it would help if you have machineguns.

No, it isn't a viable solution, especially not without magic, as was the point of this allegedly great idea to begin with.  Darkspawn are not exactly entirely comparable to animals, having some degree of cunning.  More importantly, however, the darkspawn live underground and the level of technology Thedas does have, as opposed to technology it only ever might have, does not lend itself to a comprehensive extinction agenda of untold scores of thousands of underground dwelling creatures with the breeding capacity of broodmothers.  The logistics are far more complicated than is being suggested here.

Modifié par Silfren, 14 octobre 2013 - 07:23 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Silfren wrote...

Except it's more like handing a starving man a sandwich laden with worms and mud rather than meat...it's an act of spite more than anything, even if the monarch has genuinely good intentions.  Where the hell you get your version is beyond me, because that's not even remotely the case--the Dalish were given the WORST land, not the best, which is my entire point.  The monarch of Ferelden could afford to give them the Hinterlands ONLY because it wasn't worth anything to Ferelden.

Well, if that the only thing you can give to the starved man, then he should either accept it or not.
MOST of Ferelden was blighted at that point, and alistair, as king answers also to his people.
He couldn't given the elves the best land even if he wanted to.

[Silfren]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Except it's more like handing a starving man a sandwich laden with worms and mud rather than meat...it's an act of spite more than anything, even if the monarch has genuinely good intentions.  Where the hell you get your version is beyond me, because that's not even remotely the case--the Dalish were given the WORST land, not the best, which is my entire point.  The monarch of Ferelden could afford to give them the Hinterlands ONLY because it wasn't worth anything to Ferelden.

Well, if that the only thing you can give to the starved man, then he should either accept it or not.
MOST of Ferelden was blighted at that point, and alistair, as king answers also to his people.
He couldn't given the elves the best land even if he wanted to.

I'm well aware of this.  It doesn't change the fact that giving the elves land that isn't exactly prime real estate even when it isn't Blighted, is hardly a grand gesture.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

How can the Dalish boon be an act of spite and well intentioned at the same time?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 14 octobre 2013 - 07:50 .

[Silfren]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

How can the Dalish boon be an act of spite and well intentioned at the same time?

What, you've never heard of someone offering a gift to another person, thinking that they were doing something nice without realizing it was actually a backhanded slap?  Much as I like him, it's especially possible in Alistair's case.

Modifié par Silfren, 14 octobre 2013 - 08:05 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

But even if that were true, it's not really spite, it's just the best he can offer.

[ianvillan]

Br3ad wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Guns arent the solve-all kill-all with one shot that Hollywood presents them to be.

Percisely. But these are trained individuals. Very cunning and very dangerous. That is why I recommend an ogre for every mage.

only if their sibling is a mage will they then be killed, if their sibling is a warrior the ogre wont get them.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Silfren wrote...

I'm well aware of this.  It doesn't change the fact that giving the elves land that isn't exactly prime real estate even when it isn't Blighted, is hardly a grand gesture.

Giving them ANY land is a grand gesture...because the ruler doesn't have to give them anything.
And it is still HIS/HER land he/she is giving.

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
We know from the lore that blood mages aren't the only ones capable of sundering the veil. The Veil in the Brecilian forest was sundered due to war long ago. The Rivaini Chantry sundered the veil with their localized Exalted March on the Qunari who refused to leave because the violence and slaughter was so large-scale.

In the games, books and comics, I have yet to see a single instance, or even hear rumors of a single instance, of a non-mage being able to mend the veil where it is torn. You'd need someone with a great deal of experience with the Fade, likely a Spirit Mage, but you would need a mage.

Hum-hum. You need magic but mages aren't the only things with magic in Thedas. Lyrium and demons also possess that ability.
In Warden's Keep, a non-mage Warden is perfectably capable of tricking a demon into mending the Veil and there are smiths skilled enough to be able to use lyrium to produce effects remarkably close to magic; if it became urgent, it shouldn't be impossible to be able to use lyrium to mend the Veil.
Bottom line, even if all mage suddenly dropped dead, there would still be options.

[ianvillan]

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
We know from the lore that blood mages aren't the only ones capable of sundering the veil. The Veil in the Brecilian forest was sundered due to war long ago. The Rivaini Chantry sundered the veil with their localized Exalted March on the Qunari who refused to leave because the violence and slaughter was so large-scale.

In the games, books and comics, I have yet to see a single instance, or even hear rumors of a single instance, of a non-mage being able to mend the veil where it is torn. You'd need someone with a great deal of experience with the Fade, likely a Spirit Mage, but you would need a mage.

Hum-hum. You need magic but mages aren't the only things with magic in Thedas. Lyrium and demons also possess that ability.
In Warden's Keep, a non-mage Warden is perfectably capable of tricking a demon into mending the Veil and there are smiths skilled enough to be able to use lyrium to produce effects remarkably close to magic; if it became urgent, it shouldn't be impossible to be able to use lyrium to mend the Veil.
Bottom line, even if all mage suddenly dropped dead, there would still be options.

Without mages you would not be able to do the joining so no more grey wardens, and non-mage people cannot touch lyrium or they go insane. So you suggest that the way to fix it is to deal with demons but say mages are dangerous because of demons. We know that demons can possess non mages so we should have lots of non mages who have no experience with demons or haven't undergone the harrowing calling up demons without any problems.