2497 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

yep "history" is good word because now they wipe the floor their own faces or just start turn into abomnation their only way to win. smilie

The Lore makes it clear that abominations are rare. The Andrastian nations were losing horribly to the Qunari until the mages were called in, and they didn't need to go all 'abomination' to win. They won because mages and their magic were able to match the Qunari's technology. The lore is very clear on this.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I know what institution wrote the books, I know what that
insititution's biases are. That's reasonably good fuel for inductive
logic.

Chantry as organization yes but every member of the chantry is biased nope and opinion on mage will vary who do you will ask so...

You're not supposed to get hurt
if you can fight at range and the majority of the infantry are
swordsmen. (Having tanks is very much a help with this purpose, but not
neccesary if you can off them fast enough. The fact remains, however,
that without a meat shield you really are in danger regardless of your
weapon.) This is why archers didn't suck too badly in actual warfare
(not to be confused with gameplay, where they do in every game, Skryim
being a possible exception which I have not played.) Meanwhile, even the
nerfed mages of Thedas can do things archers cannot dream of.

Crap they don't have luck maybe after another 1000 years they will find army of unarmed peasants with defect of the spine and then they will prove own strenght but they must be without their another kryptonite... forks!
Yes they can turn into abomnation!  x2

Both. The two can be reconciled if you note that mages never really seem to be fighting in ideal conditions.

^

Yes, but except on that matter the two versions agree.

Well i would argue on that  demonic warrior is knight in shining armor?




"The Lore makes it clear that abominations are rare. The
Andrastian nations were losing horribly to the Qunari until the mages
were called in, and they didn't need to go all 'abomination' to win.
They won because mages and their magic were able to match the Qunari's
technology. The lore is very clear on this."
Yeah i responded many times if you meet something many times it isn't rare so "codex can say abomnations are rare" but if i meet army of them they aren't!

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 15 octobre 2013 - 11:02 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Andrastian nations had actually fought the Qunari to a standstill without the mages. Once the mages joined, they started pushing the Qunari back.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

[quote]TheKomandorShepard wrote...

[quote]
I know what institution wrote the books, I know what that
insititution's biases are. That's reasonably good fuel for inductive
logic.
[/quote]
Chantry as organization yes but every member of the chantry is biased nope and opinion on mage will vary who do you will ask so...[/quote]

The Chantry as an organization presumably has veto power. That's usually how it works in non-free-speech countries. It's easy to get stuff published in the modern, relatively free world. In Thedas? I don't think the printing press has even been invented yet.

[quote]
[quote]
You're not supposed to get hurt
if you can fight at range and the majority of the infantry are
swordsmen. (Having tanks is very much a help with this purpose, but not
neccesary if you can off them fast enough. The fact remains, however,
that without a meat shield you really are in danger regardless of your
weapon.) This is why archers didn't suck too badly in actual warfare
(not to be confused with gameplay, where they do in every game, Skryim
being a possible exception which I have not played.) Meanwhile, even the
nerfed mages of Thedas can do things archers cannot dream of.
[/quote]
Crap they don't have luck maybe after another 1000 years they will find army of unarmed peasants with defect of the spine and then they will prove own strenght but they must be without their another kryptonite... forks!
Yes they can turn into abomnation!  x2 [/quote]

They've already got their own strength. What they need is an army to use it as part of. Would you try taking on a reasonably well balanced army with just archers? With just swordsmen? What I'm arguing is that mages are useful against the Qunari and darkspawn, not that they can solo them.

[quote]
Yes, but except on that matter the two versions agree.

[/quote]

Well i would argue on that  demonic warrior is knight in shining armor?
[/quote]

The guys ruled by his descendents believe him to have been a Knight in Shining Armor, who used the Circle as a weapon and had mage assistants. The Qunari believe him to have been a demonic warrior who gained his throne partially due to his own magic. (You might have missed my subtle hint that this was worthy of discussion in the context of this argument.) The Fereldens have forgotten that he's a Reaver, but the Qunari apparently concede that the bits they do say about him are either true or half-true.

[Silfren]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

I know what institution wrote the books, I know what that
insititution's biases are. That's reasonably good fuel for inductive
logic.

Chantry as organization yes but every member of the chantry is biased nope and opinion on mage will vary who do you will ask so...

The Chantry as an organization presumably has veto power. That's usually how it works in non-free-speech countries. It's easy to get stuff published in the modern, relatively free world. In Thedas? I don't think the printing press has even been invented yet.

You're not supposed to get hurt
if you can fight at range and the majority of the infantry are
swordsmen. (Having tanks is very much a help with this purpose, but not
neccesary if you can off them fast enough. The fact remains, however,
that without a meat shield you really are in danger regardless of your
weapon.) This is why archers didn't suck too badly in actual warfare
(not to be confused with gameplay, where they do in every game, Skryim
being a possible exception which I have not played.) Meanwhile, even the
nerfed mages of Thedas can do things archers cannot dream of.

Crap they don't have luck maybe after another 1000 years they will find army of unarmed peasants with defect of the spine and then they will prove own strenght but they must be without their another kryptonite... forks!
Yes they can turn into abomnation!  x2

They've already got their own strength. What they need is an army to use it as part of. Would you try taking on a reasonably well balanced army with just archers? With just swordsmen? What I'm arguing is that mages are useful against the Qunari and darkspawn, not that they can solo them.

Yes, but except on that matter the two versions agree.

Well i would argue on that  demonic warrior is knight in shining armor?

The guys ruled by his descendents believe him to have been a Knight in Shining Armor, who used the Circle as a weapon and had mage assistants. The Qunari believe him to have been a demonic warrior who gained his throne partially due to his own magic. (You might have missed my subtle hint that this was worthy of discussion in the context of this argument.) The Fereldens have forgotten that he's a Reaver, but the Qunari apparently concede that the bits they do say about him are either true or half-true.

.....I've got to start reading the comics.  Clearly I'm missing out on a lot of fill-in lore.

Modifié par Silfren, 15 octobre 2013 - 11:13 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...


"The Lore makes it clear that abominations are rare. The
Andrastian nations were losing horribly to the Qunari until the mages
were called in, and they didn't need to go all 'abomination' to win.
They won because mages and their magic were able to match the Qunari's
technology. The lore is very clear on this."
Yeah i responded many times if you meet something many times it isn't rare so "codex can say abomnations are rare" but if i meet army of them they aren't!

Have you considered that Hawke and the Warden might just be the people who meet all of them? Most people aren't killers, but the cops encounter most of the people that become so since it falls to the cops to protect everyone else. It's the same with PCs and abominations.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 octobre 2013 - 11:24 .

[dragonflight288]

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

I know what institution wrote the books, I know what that
insititution's biases are. That's reasonably good fuel for inductive
logic.

Chantry as organization yes but every member of the chantry is biased nope and opinion on mage will vary who do you will ask so...

The Chantry as an organization presumably has veto power. That's usually how it works in non-free-speech countries. It's easy to get stuff published in the modern, relatively free world. In Thedas? I don't think the printing press has even been invented yet.

You're not supposed to get hurt
if you can fight at range and the majority of the infantry are
swordsmen. (Having tanks is very much a help with this purpose, but not
neccesary if you can off them fast enough. The fact remains, however,
that without a meat shield you really are in danger regardless of your
weapon.) This is why archers didn't suck too badly in actual warfare
(not to be confused with gameplay, where they do in every game, Skryim
being a possible exception which I have not played.) Meanwhile, even the
nerfed mages of Thedas can do things archers cannot dream of.

Crap they don't have luck maybe after another 1000 years they will find army of unarmed peasants with defect of the spine and then they will prove own strenght but they must be without their another kryptonite... forks!
Yes they can turn into abomnation!  x2

They've already got their own strength. What they need is an army to use it as part of. Would you try taking on a reasonably well balanced army with just archers? With just swordsmen? What I'm arguing is that mages are useful against the Qunari and darkspawn, not that they can solo them.

Yes, but except on that matter the two versions agree.

Well i would argue on that  demonic warrior is knight in shining armor?

The guys ruled by his descendents believe him to have been a Knight in Shining Armor, who used the Circle as a weapon and had mage assistants. The Qunari believe him to have been a demonic warrior who gained his throne partially due to his own magic. (You might have missed my subtle hint that this was worthy of discussion in the context of this argument.) The Fereldens have forgotten that he's a Reaver, but the Qunari apparently concede that the bits they do say about him are either true or half-true.

.....I've got to start reading the comics.  Clearly I'm missing out on a lot of fill-in lore.

In the comics, it says Alistair started taking lyrium (again according to the comics) so he can use templar abilities....it's a retcon on what he said in origins and the need for lyrium.

But on the brighter side...he found Maric and worked with Varic and Isabella to try and rescue him.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Chantry as an organization presumably has veto power. That's
usually how it works in non-free-speech countries. It's easy to get
stuff published in the modern, relatively free world. In Thedas? I don't
think the printing press has even been invented yet.

Well if chantry had this simply could take any mage hero like champion or the warden or even shale master and arrest them but they can't.

They've already got their own strength. What they need is an
army to use it as part of. Would you try taking on a reasonably well
balanced army with just archers? With just swordsmen? What I'm arguing
is that mages are useful against the Qunari and darkspawn, not that they
can solo them.

With power most mages presented doubt that they are useful most of them couldn't even use fireball add to this abomnation and please spare that abomnations are rare because it will end like 5 times before i will give you many rly many examples and you still tell me that they are rare

The guys ruled by his descendents believe him to have been a Knight
in Shining Armor, who used the Circle as a weapon and had mage
assistants. The Qunari believe him to have been a demonic warrior who
gained his throne partially due to his own magic. (You might have missed
my subtle hint that this was worthy of discussion in the context of
this argument.) The Fereldens have forgotten that he's a Reaver, but the
Qunari apparently concede that the bits they do say about him are
either true or half-true.

so is he a reaver who made deal with flemeth or knight in shining armor you can't be both one
excludes other.With blood plot i would say that latter.  

Have you considered that Hawke and the Warden might just be the
people who meet all of them? Most people aren't killers, but the cops
encounter most of the people that become so since it falls to the cops
to protect everyone else. It's the same with PCs and abominations.

Only warden and hawke nah asunder and dawn of the seeker.And most of peoples aren't killers but we have many killers in da well warriors except accident with peasants in lothering but hey they were desperate.
. 

In the comics, it says Alistair started taking lyrium (again according
to the comics) so he can use templar abilities....it's a retcon on what
he said in origins and the need for lyrium.

But on the brighter side...he found Maric and worked with Varic and Isabella to try and rescue him.

I wonder how many changes we will have in Inquisition because da 2 changed some things.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 15 octobre 2013 - 11:41 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

[quote]TheKomandorShepard wrote...

[quote]
The Chantry as an organization presumably has veto power. That's
usually how it works in non-free-speech countries. It's easy to get
stuff published in the modern, relatively free world. In Thedas? I don't
think the printing press has even been invented yet.[/quote]

Well if chantry had this simply could take any mage hero like champion or the warden or even shale master and arrest them but they can't.[/quote]

That's not the same kind of power. The Chantry steps lightly around public opinion and the sensibilities of rulers, but as for representing the events of centuries past or places distant they can basically write anything credible due to the genius nobles handing control of most scholarship to them. If what they write is at least believable, they control the way the people of the future will see the past.

Come to think of it, that power comes in different sorts is most of this argument, isn't it?

[quote]
They've already got their own strength. What they need is an
army to use it as part of. Would you try taking on a reasonably well
balanced army with just archers? With just swordsmen? What I'm arguing
is that mages are useful against the Qunari and darkspawn, not that they
can solo them.
[/quote]
With power most mages presented doubt that they are useful most of them couldn't even use fireball add to this abomnation and please spare that abomnations are rare because it will end like 5 times before i will give you many rly many examples and you still tell me that they are rare[/quote]

Then find the more powerful ones. That's largely the point of the Circle; to Tranqulize the weak ones and strengthen the strong.

[quote]
[quote]

The guys ruled by his descendents believe him to have been a Knight
in Shining Armor, who used the Circle as a weapon and had mage
assistants. The Qunari believe him to have been a demonic warrior who
gained his throne partially due to his own magic. (You might have missed
my subtle hint that this was worthy of discussion in the context of
this argument.) The Fereldens have forgotten that he's a Reaver, but the
Qunari apparently concede that the bits they do say about him are
either true or half-true.
[/quote]

so is he a reaver who made deal with flemeth or knight in shining armor you can't be both one
excludes other.With blood plot i would say that latter.  
[/quote]

Oh, that's how you interpreted that. Sorry, what I meant to say was that the Qunari and Ferelden both agree that he conquered them, and that his descendents now rule. Those are the basics of what happened. But the people ruled by his descendents say he was a Knight in Shining Armor, whereas the Qunari say he was a Reaver. That's pretty much the only place where they disagree, or so I understand. That's what I meant by the two stories not really conflicting as much as you say.

Edit: Also, I totally played my Berserker-Reaver as a Lawful Good King who got that way through political scheming. Which, as it turns out, is less ironic than I thought.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 octobre 2013 - 11:51 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Have you considered that Hawke and the Warden might just be the
people who meet all of them? Most people aren't killers, but the cops
encounter most of the people that become so since it falls to the cops
to protect everyone else. It's the same with PCs and abominations.

Only warden and hawke nah asunder and dawn of the seeker.And most of peoples aren't killers but we have many killers in da well warriors except accident with peasants in lothering but hey they were desperate.

Fine. The main characters of the various media of the series meet most of them. Is that better?

In the comics, it says Alistair started taking lyrium (again according
to the comics) so he can use templar abilities....it's a retcon on what
he said in origins and the need for lyrium.

But on the brighter side...he found Maric and worked with Varic and Isabella to try and rescue him.

I wonder how many changes we will have in Inquisition because da 2 changed some things.

I hope not too many. Retcons hurt my brain, especially poorly done ones that contradict stuff that was established as fact.

On the plus side, one thing Bioware has stated is that they'll cut down on is stuff where what you see during gameplay (or cutscenes, you nitpicker) doesn't line up with the lore. So, you'll see fewer abominations, and they'll be more likely to resemble Connor or Uldred than the ones in the previous games.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's not the same kind of power. The Chantry steps lightly
around public opinion and the sensibilities of rulers, but as for
representing the events of centuries past or places distant they can
basically write anything credible due to the genius
nobles handing control of most scholarship to them. If what they write
is at least believable, they control the way the people of the future
will see the past.

Come to think of it, that power comes in different sorts is most of this argument, isn't it?

Can they?They remove shartan but it seems this is know at least by some peoples common peoples don't know crap and listen chantry so this is normal but how many peoples knew that mages helped with qunari?

They have control but not absolute.

Then find the more powerful ones. That's largely the point of the Circle; to Tranqulize the weak ones and strengthen the strong.

Well when i talk about weak circle mages that what i was meant strong mages are much less common mages like wynne or morrigan are stronger.

Also, I totally played my Berserker-Reaver as a Lawful Good King who got
that way through political scheming. Which, as it turns out, is less
ironic than I thought.

So you made deal with cultist killer to turn into monster-warrior with dark powers hardly lawful good decision at best neutral good or chaotic good when you killed them in the end.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

That's not the same kind of power. The Chantry steps lightly
around public opinion and the sensibilities of rulers, but as for
representing the events of centuries past or places distant they can
basically write anything credible due to the genius
nobles handing control of most scholarship to them. If what they write
is at least believable, they control the way the people of the future
will see the past.

Come to think of it, that power comes in different sorts is most of this argument, isn't it?

Can they?They remove shartan but it seems this is know at least by some peoples common peoples don't know crap and listen chantry so this is normal but how many peoples knew that mages helped with qunari?

They have control but not absolute.

Yes, but they nonetheless have a large amount of influence over how the past is seen by most people. And you'd think that if they were going to try and use this to lie, it would not be in favor of the mages.

Then find the more powerful ones. That's largely the point of the Circle; to Tranqulize the weak ones and strengthen the strong.

Well when i talk about weak circle mages that what i was meant strong mages are much less common mages like wynne or morrigan are stronger.

And in case of a Blight or Qunari attack, the strong mages from every Circle are gathered and sent to the trouble spot. Along with a bunch of the weaker ones, since hey, they're still useful against a line of ordinary swordsmen. (Assuming they're standing behind another line of ordinary swordsmen, but those are pretty plentiful in wars.)

Also, I totally played my Berserker-Reaver as a Lawful Good King who got
that way through political scheming. Which, as it turns out, is less
ironic than I thought.

So you made deal with cultist killer to turn into monster-warrior with dark powers hardly lawful good decision at best neutral good or chaotic good when you killed them in the end.

Actually, I'd unlocked Reaver as my Chaotic Evil Blood-Mage Spirit Healer, and had already taken that spec as my Cousland by the time I rampaged through Kolgrim's base and killed all his dudes.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 16 octobre 2013 - 12:19 .

[billy the squid]

dp

Modifié par billy the squid, 16 octobre 2013 - 12:36 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Fine. The main characters of the various media of the series meet most of them. Is that better?

Well they still meet them whether or not they are main characters so still not rare but you can blame devs for inconsistent story if you want:P.

Yes, but they nonetheless have a large amount of influence over how
the past is seen by most people. And you'd think that if they were going
to try and use this to lie, it would not be in favor of the mages.

In cricle tower i heard that my warden slept with isabela and nug , hawke eats dragon and we have current hawke reputation what have not much with what rly happened.

And in case of a Blight or Qunari attack, the strong mages from
every Circle are gathered and sent to the trouble spot. Along with a
bunch of the weaker ones, since hey, they're still useful against a line
of ordinary swordsmen. (Assuming they're standing behind another line
of ordinary swordsmen, but those are pretty plentiful in wars.)

maybe stronger one still we don't have many mages and i don't even mention stronger one plus abomnations and add that templar order with very well trained and equipped warriors are after them having templar army is much more better than mage small weak ticking bomb army and still we have idea mages as golems but for me it is pri*** but not bad idea for someone ruthless

Actually, I'd unlocked Reaver as my Chaotic Evil Blood-Mage Spirit
Healer, and had already taken that spec as my Cousland by the time I
rampaged through Kolgrim's base and killed all his dudes.

So technicly you are raver only in gameplay..

 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 16 octobre 2013 - 12:53 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

[quote]TheKomandorShepard wrote...

[quote]
Fine. The main characters of the various media of the series meet most of them. Is that better?
[/quote]
Well they still meet them whether or not they are main characters so still not rare but you can blame devs for inconsistent story if you want:P.[/quote][/quote]


That's still not a sign of them being common, just that those specific, powerful people who seek out trouble tend to find them in insanely large numbers. But either way, It's not like they haven't promised to be more in line with the reality you're trying to deny in Inquisition anyway.


[quote]Yes, but they nonetheless have a large amount of influence over how
the past is seen by most people. And you'd think that if they were going
to try and use this to lie, it would not be in favor of the mages.
[/quote]

In cricle tower i heard that my warden slept with isabela and nug , hawke eats dragon and we have current hawke reputation what have not much with what rly happened.[/quote]

What does that have to do with the point I made? All I'm saying is that the Chantry has a lot to do with what people centuries foward think.

[quote]
[quote]And in case of a Blight or Qunari attack, the strong mages from
every Circle are gathered and sent to the trouble spot. Along with a
bunch of the weaker ones, since hey, they're still useful against a line
of ordinary swordsmen. (Assuming they're standing behind another line
of ordinary swordsmen, but those are pretty plentiful in wars.)
[/quote]
maybe stronger one still we don't have many mages and i don't even mention stronger one plus abomnations and add that templar order with very well trained and equipped warriors are after them having templar army is much more better than mage small weak ticking bomb army and still we have idea mages as golems but for me it is pri*** but not bad idea for someone ruthless[/quote]

A weak gun is still able to kill a man. It's the same with a weak mage; if they're poweful enough to be worth the Harrowing, an ordinary person would rather not face them. The only reason the swordsmen are there is because that weak mage doesn't want to get stabbed by ten men at once. Weak magic is still an advantage.

[quote]
[quote]Actually, I'd unlocked Reaver as my Chaotic Evil Blood-Mage Spirit
Healer, and had already taken that spec as my Cousland by the time I
rampaged through Kolgrim's base and killed all his dudes.

[/quote]
So technicly you are raver only in gameplay..
[/quote]

Probably. I still thought it was deliciously ironic to be a good guy with powers like that.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 16 octobre 2013 - 01:05 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's still not a sign of them being common, just that those
specific, powerful people who seek out trouble tend to find them in
insanely large numbers. But either way, It's not like they haven't
promised to be more in line with the reality you're trying to deny in
Inquisition anyway.

Hmm dao , daa , da 2 dawn of the seeker , asunder seeking trouble or abomnation openly are two different things than abomnations on road or on every street and well we have red templars already.

What does that have to do with the point I made? All I'm saying is that
the Chantry has a lot to do with what people centuries foward think.

That how rumors become truth at least in public opinion.

Chantry doesn't big mastermind to destroy their enemies in a perfect way destroying their reputation on purposely and mage part is only that for chantry was created.

A weak gun is still able to kill a man. It's the same with a weak
mage; if they're poweful enough to be worth the Harrowing, an ordinary
person would rather not face them. The only reason the swordsmen are
there is because that weak mage doesn't want to get stabbed by ten men
at once. Weak magic is still an advantage.

Hands are able to kill man as well but sketch couldn't handle few mercenaries and he was trained in combat mage soo weak mage...

Probably. I still thought it was deliciously ironic to be a good guy with powers like that.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadPowersGoodPeople

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

That's still not a sign of them being common, just that those
specific, powerful people who seek out trouble tend to find them in
insanely large numbers. But either way, It's not like they haven't
promised to be more in line with the reality you're trying to deny in
Inquisition anyway.

Hmm dao , daa , da 2 dawn of the seeker , asunder seeking trouble or abomnation openly are two different things than abomnations on road or on every street and well we have red templars already.

Abominations on every street seems like you're describing Dragon Age II. Varric is an admitted liar who exaggerates for effect whenever he can get away with it. His word isn't strong evidence that Kirkwall is really like that, and frankly if it was then Kirkwall would not exist. Whatever our disagreements about how strong mages are, I think we agree that abominations are truly dangerous. I don't know to what extent you have a point about Asunder and Dawn of the Seeker, though, having not read/watched them. I didn't think abominations were a major part of either story, though.

What does that have to do with the point I made? All I'm saying is that
the Chantry has a lot to do with what people centuries foward think.

That how rumors become truth at least in public opinion.

Chantry doesn't big mastermind to destroy their enemies in a perfect way destroying their reputation on purposely and mage part is only that for chantry was created.

Actually, they kind of are. They demonize Tevinter at least in part due to hatred of them (though it must be said they deserve it) and altered the Chant to remove a hero who was now racially impractical. The elves, mages, Qunari, and most notably the Tevinters are all current or former enemies of the Chantry and all are hated for religious reasons by basically all of Thedas; this is despite the fact that only the Tevinters have unambigously earned that hatred. I think all this inclination towards demonization means that if there was a slant to those Chantry writings, it would not be pro-mage.

A weak gun is still able to kill a man. It's the same with a weak
mage; if they're poweful enough to be worth the Harrowing, an ordinary
person would rather not face them. The only reason the swordsmen are
there is because that weak mage doesn't want to get stabbed by ten men
at once. Weak magic is still an advantage.

Hands are able to kill man as well but sketch couldn't handle few mercenaries and he was trained in combat mage soo weak mage...

Because he was squishy and they'd have gotten him if he didn't get all of them in one shot. The main weakness of mages in this setting (and lore and gameplay both agree with me here) is that they're deliberately kept physically weak and dressed in robes rather than armor so that they don't get too powerful, since being able to fight physically and magically is power the Chantry would rather mages not have. I don't think you get that.

Probably. I still thought it was deliciously ironic to be a good guy with powers like that.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadPowersGoodPeople

That, yes.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 16 octobre 2013 - 07:02 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Lore makes it clear that abominations are rare. The Andrastian nations were losing horribly to the Qunari until the mages were called in, and they didn't need to go all 'abomination' to win. They won because mages and their magic were able to match the Qunari's technology. The lore is very clear on this.

False. Stop spreading lies.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

I wonder how many changes we will have in Inquisition because da 2 changed some things.

Templars needed lyrium was the original concept idea.
DA:O was supposed to have lyrium addiction mechanic, but it was cut in the last minute (you can find refferences in the code) and Alistairs line was changed to reflect that.

So tempalrs needing lyrium isn't a change going against the original vision. It IS the original vision.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Lore makes it clear that abominations are rare. The Andrastian nations were losing horribly to the Qunari until the mages were called in, and they didn't need to go all 'abomination' to win. They won because mages and their magic were able to match the Qunari's technology. The lore is very clear on this.

False. Stop spreading lies.

I dunno. The first Qunari war was supposed to have been a real bloodbath, and I think the same is true of the second one.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

I wonder how many changes we will have in Inquisition because da 2 changed some things. 

Templars needed lyrium was the original concept idea. 
DA:O was supposed to have lyrium addiction mechanic, but it was cut in the last minute (you can find refferences in the code) and Alistairs line was changed to reflect that.

So tempalrs needing lyrium isn't a change going against the original vision. It IS the original vision.

Yes, but it's still a change from previously published material.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 16 octobre 2013 - 07:35 .

[MisterJB]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
I dunno. The first Qunari war was supposed to have been a real bloodbath, and I think the same is true of the second one.

And the very first people the Qunari faced were the tevinters and the rivaini both of which are more magically friendly than the rest of Thedas. Therefore, the idea that the Qunari were winning easily and then the mages came in and saved everyone doesn't really hold water because the Qunari had to have faced the most powerful mages in Thedas in the Tevinter Magisters early on.
We have some timeline of the Qunari Wars in The World of Thedas but it doesn't say "mages join the fight". Rather, it talks about both the White and the Black Chantry uniting to retake lands conquered by Qunari; it talks of Free Marches cities fighting off Qunari; of the orlesians retaking Kirkwall, etc.
The codex does speak of the mages as the greatest weapon against the Qunari; which I can accept but it does not mean victory would have been impossible to win without them; but it also speaks of the large numbers of non-mages giving Thedosians the advantage.
In conclusion, rather than the introduction of mages being the fulcral point that turned the war in the favor of Thedosians, I believe the Qunari were beaten back to Seheron because ALL groups in Thedas;orlesians, tevinters, mages, templars, soldiers, raiders, etc; united to bring the fight to them.

[Xilizhra]

And the very first people the Qunari faced were the tevinters and the rivaini both of which are more magically friendly than the rest of Thedas. Therefore, the idea that the Qunari were winning easily and then the mages came in and saved everyone doesn't really hold water because the Qunari had to have faced the most powerful mages in Thedas in the Tevinter Magisters early on.

Rivain's religious doctrine was pretty weak, so they could afford to play it more nicely there and spend more time converting than killing. Tevinter, they fought but were unable to penetrate, so they headed further south.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
I dunno. The first Qunari war was supposed to have been a real bloodbath, and I think the same is true of the second one.

Of course it was. Wars are always bloodbaths.
And the quanri one was a very large war.

Qunari are unified. Thedas was now.
They had a great initial sucess because it took time for Thedas to mount an organized resistance.
Have you any idea how long it takes for various armies from Thedas to even get there (let alone for hte news of quanri invasion to reach them)?

The lore is clear - the war was a standstill. TheDas was matching everything the quanri could throw at them.
They couldn't push them back (yet) but the balance of power at that point was established as equal.
Then the Circles unleashed the mages and the balance of the scales tipped.

[dragonflight288]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Lore makes it clear that abominations are rare. The Andrastian nations were losing horribly to the Qunari until the mages were called in, and they didn't need to go all 'abomination' to win. They won because mages and their magic were able to match the Qunari's technology. The lore is very clear on this.

False. Stop spreading lies.

If what I'm saying is a lie, provide evidence that proves me wrong.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Lore makes it clear that abominations are rare. The Andrastian nations were losing horribly to the Qunari until the mages were called in, and they didn't need to go all 'abomination' to win. They won because mages and their magic were able to match the Qunari's technology. The lore is very clear on this.

False. Stop spreading lies.

If what I'm saying is a lie, provide evidence that proves me wrong.

I am trying to hunt down the page on the DA Wiki that I know backs up what you are saying. I definitely remember reading the same thing you did... but "The greatest advantage of the Chantry-led forces was the Circle of Magi. For all their technology, the Qunari appeared to harbor great hatred for magic. Faced with cannons, the Chantry responded with lightning and balls of fire."
----Codex entry: Par Vollen: The Occupied North