2497 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

I think Lotion is taking umbrage with dragonflight's use of the words "losing horribly".

A "greatest advantage" is instrumental in winning - but it doesn't mean that the struggle against the Qunari was rendered effortless by magic.

Though it does reference fireballs and lightning - I would imagine it was the Creation school mages that really made the war winnable.

To that end - it was the armies of mundanes bolstered by mages that made them the "greatest asset".

I will concede that's not what it says, but fireballs and lightning bolts wouldn't do much against a cannon - look at the range of the spells? Even if it were quadrupled I doubt it would even come to half the range of our earliest canons.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Lore makes it clear that abominations are rare. The Andrastian nations were losing horribly to the Qunari until the mages were called in, and they didn't need to go all 'abomination' to win. They won because mages and their magic were able to match the Qunari's technology. The lore is very clear on this.

False. Stop spreading lies.

If what I'm saying is a lie, provide evidence that proves me wrong.

I am trying to hunt down the page on the DA Wiki that I know backs up what you are saying. I definitely remember reading the same thing you did... but "[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)">The greatest advantage of the ]-led forces was the [/color]Circle of Magi. For all their technology, the Qunari appeared to harbor great hatred for magic. Faced with cannons, the Chantry responded with lightning and balls of fire."
----Codex entry: Par Vollen: The Occupied North

I've found it.

Tales of the Destruction of Thedas, written by Brother Genitivi.

http://dragonage.wik...ction_of_Thedas

Here's a direct quote of when the Qunari arrived.

"The defenders of those lands were hardly a match for Qunari discipline
and technology. One shot of the mighty cannons, the likes of which our
ancestors of the time had never seen before, brought troops to their
knees. Qunari warriors in glittering steel armor carved through the
defenders with ease. History calls this the First Qunari War, but it was
mostly a one-sided bloodbath, with the Qunari advancing far into Tevinter within ten years."

That's near the end of chapter 1 of the qunari tales.

Then in chapter 3, about the New Exalted Marches, it talks about how it took an alliance of nations, including Tevinter to begin driving the Qunari back in the Storm Age. It was called the grandest mobilization of forces since the fourth blight.

It seems to me that the lore makes it clear that it took every nation, including the magically inclined Tevinters to push the qunari back, and the story by Genitivi also says that a large part of that has to do with mages being their answer to the Qunari's technology.

[dragonflight288]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I think Lotion is taking umbrage with dragonflight's use of the words "losing horribly".

A "greatest advantage" is instrumental in winning - but it doesn't mean that the struggle against the Qunari was rendered effortless by magic.

Though it does reference fireballs and lightning - I would imagine it was the Creation school mages that really made the war winnable.

To that end - it was the armies of mundanes bolstered by mages that made them the "greatest asset".

I will concede that's not what it says, but fireballs and lightning bolts wouldn't do much against a cannon - look at the range of the spells? Even if it were quadrupled I doubt it would even come to half the range of our earliest canons.

The lore says "one sided blood bath."

[MisterJB]

And what is it referring to? Tevinter, the most magically adept nation in Thedas.
Therefore, the Qun fought a great deal of mages early on and defeated them easily. This does not support your suggestion of the mages being the most important reason Thedas is not toiling under the Qun nowadays.

[dragonflight288]

MisterJB wrote...

And what is it referring to? Tevinter, the most magically adept nation in Thedas.
Therefore, the Qun fought a great deal of mages early on and defeated them easily. This does not support your suggestion of the mages being the most important reason Thedas is not toiling under the Qun nowadays.

It doesn't refer to Tevinter, but Rivain and Seheron.

[MisterJB]

"With the Qunari advancing far into Tevinter within ten years".
Plus Seheron was part of Tevinter at the time and Rivain also has free mages in positions of authority.

And here is a quote from the very page you posted
"The Imperial Chantry in Minrathous (the only unnacopied major Tevinter city)"
Which makes it clear that every single major Tevinter city fell to the Qun. Regardless of mages.

Modifié par MisterJB, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:59 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Mages were A deciding factor, not THE deciding factor in the Qunari Wars. I believe 'World of Thedas' also tells that before the Circles joined the war, the Andrastian nations had fought the Qunari to a standstill.

[dragonflight288]

MisterJB wrote...

"With the Qunari advancing far into Tevinter within ten years".
Plus Seheron was part of Tevinter at the time and Rivain also has free mages in positions of authority.

And here is a quote from the very page you posted
"The Imperial Chantry in Minrathous (the only unnacopied major Tevinter city)"
Which makes it clear that every single major Tevinter city fell to the Qun. Regardless of mages.

And it took an alliance of nations to push them back, including mages.

I call that a one-sided blood bath either way.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The first Qunari invasion was a one sided bloodbath. The Qunari conquered everything except Minrathous down to the Free Marches, basically the entire North-East third of Thedas within just 10 years. But that eventually ground to a halt way before the Chantry unleashed mages in the New Exalted Marches. They were apparently attacking the Free Marches for 40 years and couldn't advance further.

But Tevinter was almost entirely conquered. That's why the codex says that it was 50 years before the Imperium freed itself, but "the rest of Northern Thedas wasn't so lucky." Even by the time the New Exalted Marches started the Qunari were still entrenched in the eastern part of Tevinter.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 octobre 2013 - 06:46 .

[dragonflight288]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The first Qunari invasion was a one sided bloodbath. The Qunari conquered everything except Minrathous down to the Free Marches, basically the entire North-East third of Thedas within just 10 years. But that eventually ground to a halt way before the Chantry unleashed mages in the New Exalted Marches. They were apparently attacking the Free Marches for 40 years and couldn't advance further.

But Tevinter was almost entirely conquered. That's why the codex says that it was 50 years before the Imperium freed itself, but "the rest of Northern Thedas wasn't so lucky." Even by the time the New Exalted Marches started the Qunari were still entrenched in the eastern part of Tevinter.

Hmm....

That adds weight to Fenris's statement that if the Qunari simply wanted to take Tevinter, they would.

I don't recall the New Exalted Marches mentioning that they already fought the Qunari to a standstill before the mages of the Circles's were brought in to counter the qunari technology, but maybe I'll just read them again.

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
And it took an alliance of nations to push them back, including mages.

I call that a one-sided blood bath either way.

You seem to be missing the point.
You said that Thedas was losing badly until the mages started to fight. But I pointed out how the very first nation that fell to the Qun was Tevinter.
Yes, it was one sided bloodbath...despite Tevinter boasting the most powerful and, probrably, greatest number of mages in Thedas. Therefore, it doesn't make sense for the Andrastian Circles to have made all the difference if the Tevinter mages were defeated so handily.

[Medhia Nox]

Are we arguing that mages are not useful in a battle?

Cause that seems like a pointless argument.

Are we arguing that mages are detrimental to battle? Because I don't think the Wardens would risk the Blight if Warden mage were becoming abominations.

Abominations are a risk - possession is a risk (and I believe they're both different) - but it seems nobody on Thedas thinks the risk is bigger than the reward.

So the argument seems rather moot.

[MisterJB]

I think we're arguing whether the Qunari would have steamrolled over Thedas had there not been mages.

Modifié par MisterJB, 16 octobre 2013 - 07:22 .

[Medhia Nox]

But to what end?

The Chantry felt it prudent to include mages in their Exalted Marches - mages proved to be the "greatest advantage" those Exalted Marches had.

So - the in game group made to regulate mage action - saw it totally worthwhile to include mages and, in reflection upon the war, saw that the mages were their "greatest advantage".

It doesn't matter "why" really.

====

Unlike the current scenario - where the mages are too stupid to realize that, while things NEED to change, it could be a lot worse - and they're leaving all of Thedas vulnerable with their rebellion.

The mages during the Exalted Marches knew if the Qunari won - the least of their worries would have been the abusals of some demented Templars.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 16 octobre 2013 - 07:25 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I believe the discussion arose from the claims that mages are indispensable because, among other things, they were the only reason that the Qunari didn't conquer Thedas in the Qunari Wars. Which some people didn't believe was the case.

I don't know about the larger issue of mages, but I was arguing that, while important, neither mages nor any other single factor in the war was entirely responsible for the outcome. The nations of Thedas could have survived even without mages.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Okay, sure, maybe. The mages might not have been indispensable for that purpose. They're still a large part of it. Even were we to ignore this (and even the Chantry isn't,) they're still necessary for the Joining, and the arguments given that that's not necessary for the continued existence of Thedas are really reaching.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 16 octobre 2013 - 07:52 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Hmm....

That adds weight to Fenris's statement that if the Qunari simply wanted to take Tevinter, they would.

I don't recall the New Exalted Marches mentioning that they already fought the Qunari to a standstill before the mages of the Circles's were brought in to counter the qunari technology, but maybe I'll just read them again.

Well the codex doesn't say that specifically, but the timeline of the Qunari Wars indicates it was the case. The New Exalted Marches began in 7:25 Storm, 103 years after the Qunari first invaded. By then the Qunari had been pushed back from their furthest positions. Genetivi's codex entry on the Llomerryn Accord says that the Imperium rebelled against Qunari rule after 50 years and "a century long seige resulted." World of Thedas says the same. The human counterattack began decades before the New Exalted Marches, where Genetivi describes how the mages were the Chantry's greatest weapon. I suppose it's possible mages were also with the armies that pushed the Qunari out of Antiva and the Free Marches but seeing as the Chantry controls the mages didn't get involved until afterward, I would suspect most mages came during the last third of the war.

Both the Dragon Age Wiki pages on the timeline of the Steel and Storm Age and the timeline on World of Thedas confirm the Qunari forward momentum had been halted by the time the Divines called the Exalted Marches. The Ages page on the Dragon Age wiki says that there was an impasse by 7:23 Storm following the Battle of the Nocen Sea which ended in a stalemate. That would be the best place to look. I believe most of the entrys on those pages come from the Dragon Age Prima Guide from years back. That's the source for most of the lore that wasn't in the games, and most of it reappeared in World of Thedas.

That's why I think it's fair to say Circle Mages were important in breaking the deadlock and liberating the remaining occupied territory of Seheron, eastern Tevinter and Rivain, but not in preventing the Qunari from conquering all Thedas.

[Senya]

I'd say it took everything the human nations had to push the Qunari back, including Mages. I would say that magic was a deciding factor, but not the deciding factor. The Felicisima Armada was a similar key factor as, otherwise, the Qunari would have maintained naval superiority and almost certainly have won the war.

That is why I think that the fourth game will bring us the Qunari renewing their war of conquest with a weakened Thedas. They would be just about the only threat that could rival the mysterious evil in Inquisition and the Darkspawn in Origins. It would also be fair to say that an extremely pro-Mage or pro-Templar ending would backfire on us in the fourth game given the weakening of the Templars or Mages, both of which would be needed. Not to mention the pockets of resistance that would remain without a compromise.

That last paragraph is just my speculation, of course. I could be completely wrong.

[dragonflight288]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Hmm....

That adds weight to Fenris's statement that if the Qunari simply wanted to take Tevinter, they would.

I don't recall the New Exalted Marches mentioning that they already fought the Qunari to a standstill before the mages of the Circles's were brought in to counter the qunari technology, but maybe I'll just read them again.

Well the codex doesn't say that specifically, but the timeline of the Qunari Wars indicates it was the case. The New Exalted Marches began in 7:25 Storm, 103 years after the Qunari first invaded. By then the Qunari had been pushed back from their furthest positions. Genetivi's codex entry on the Llomerryn Accord says that the Imperium rebelled against Qunari rule after 50 years and "a century long seige resulted." World of Thedas says the same. The human counterattack began decades before the New Exalted Marches, where Genetivi describes how the mages were the Chantry's greatest weapon. I suppose it's possible mages were also with the armies that pushed the Qunari out of Antiva and the Free Marches but seeing as the Chantry controls the mages didn't get involved until afterward, I would suspect most mages came during the last third of the war.

Both the Dragon Age Wiki pages on the timeline of the Steel and Storm Age and the timeline on World of Thedas confirm the Qunari forward momentum had been halted by the time the Divines called the Exalted Marches. The Ages page on the Dragon Age wiki says that there was an impasse by 7:23 Storm following the Battle of the Nocen Sea which ended in a stalemate. That would be the best place to look. I believe most of the entrys on those pages come from the Dragon Age Prima Guide from years back. That's the source for most of the lore that wasn't in the games, and most of it reappeared in World of Thedas.

That's why I think it's fair to say Circle Mages were important in breaking the deadlock and liberating the remaining occupied territory of Seheron, eastern Tevinter and Rivain, but not in preventing the Qunari from conquering all Thedas.

Fair enough.

I missed those timelines, so I think you're right.

[leaguer of one]

MisterJB wrote...

I think we're arguing whether the Qunari would have steamrolled over Thedas had there not been mages.

Yes, they would. There is no arguing this.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Abominations on every street seems like you're describing Dragon Age II. Varric is an admitted liar who exaggerates for effect whenever he can get away with it. His word isn't strong evidence that Kirkwall is really like that, and frankly if it was then Kirkwall would not exist. Whatever our disagreements about how strong mages are, I think we agree that abominations are truly dangerous. I don't know to what extent you have a point about Asunder and Dawn of the Seeker, though, having not read/watched them. I didn't think abominations were a major part of either story, though.

So now you want question entire game not only one piece?Doubt that they will put sorry didn't happened on most of the game. Well we have unbound in denerim still exist.How strong abomnation is that depends on what type of demon is that when weaker rather couldn't handle entrie city only village.In asunder not more in dawn of the seeker.

Actually, they kind of are. They demonize Tevinter at least in part
due to hatred of them (though it must be said they deserve it) and
altered the Chant to remove a hero who was now racially impractical. The
elves, mages, Qunari, and most notably the Tevinters are all current or
former enemies of the Chantry and all are hated for religious reasons
by basically all of Thedas; this is despite the fact that only the
Tevinters have unambigously earned that hatred. I think all this
inclination towards demonization means that if there was a slant to
those Chantry writings, it would not be pro-mage.

Elthina wasn't pro-templar and pro mage he was lazy bi*** true not every person in chantry is pro-templar some may be pro-mage doubt that they will control them well justinia passed until she screwd up as leader and lambert was just better than her.To be honest everyone demonize tevinter probably because of magic and slavery in second part some are hypocrites but how it goes depends who is in charge even if control is minor .



 

Because he was squishy and they'd have gotten him if he didn't
get all of them in one shot. The main weakness of mages in this setting
(and lore and gameplay both agree
with me here) is that they're deliberately kept physically weak and
dressed in robes rather than armor so that they don't get too powerful,
since being able to fight physically and magically is power the Chantry would rather mages not have. I don't think you get that.

In gameplay yes outside gameplay i don't think so as i said they got wrecked they don't have impresive power at least most of them so practically most of them are peasants with homemade flamethrower and be not nothing more unless da proves me otherwise with something more than codex entry where "mages are very powerfu" *five minutes later* help help (mage attacked by mercenary).


 

Templars needed lyrium was the original concept idea.
DA:O was
supposed to have lyrium addiction mechanic, but it was cut in the last
minute (you can find refferences in the code) and Alistairs line was
changed to reflect that.

So tempalrs needing lyrium isn't a change going against the original vision. It IS the original vision.

Doesn't matter final version was that templars don't need lyrium.

leaguer of one wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

I think we're arguing whether the Qunari would have steamrolled over Thedas had there not been mages.

Yes, they would. There is no arguing this.

Even if i forget about what i saw on mage side and their failures it is what if... scenario like what could happen if the warden died in ostagar without darkspawn chronicles we can't rly say i was surprised that alistair managed to get this far.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 16 octobre 2013 - 11:27 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

[quote]TheKomandorShepard wrote...

[quote]
Abominations on every street seems like you're describing Dragon Age II. Varric is an admitted liar who exaggerates for effect whenever he can get away with it. His word isn't strong evidence that Kirkwall is really like that, and frankly if it was then Kirkwall would not exist. Whatever our disagreements about how strong mages are, I think we agree that abominations are truly dangerous. I don't know to what extent you have a point about Asunder and Dawn of the Seeker, though, having not read/watched them. I didn't think abominations were a major part of either story, though.

[/quote]

So now you want question entire game not only one piece?Doubt that they will put sorry didn't happened on most of the game. Well we have unbound in denerim still exist.How strong abomnation is that depends on what type of demon is that when weaker rather couldn't handle entrie city only village.In asunder not more in dawn of the seeker.[/quote]

Not the entire game. The whole point of the ending was that even through all of Varric's exaggerations, the very basic plot (Hawke's mother, the Arishok, Anders, Meredith, the basics of the DLCs) is true. He just exaggerated whenever he could manage to make Hawke look more like a physical god, adding more enemies and making them all weaker.

Edit: And one demon in Denerim isn't the same as them being on every street.

[quote]
[quote]
Actually, they kind of are. They demonize Tevinter at least in part
due to hatred of them (though it must be said they deserve it) and
altered the Chant to remove a hero who was now racially impractical. The
elves, mages, Qunari, and most notably the Tevinters are all current or
former enemies of the Chantry and all are hated for religious reasons
by basically all of Thedas; this is despite the fact that only the
Tevinters have unambigously earned that hatred. I think all this
inclination towards demonization means that if there was a slant to
those Chantry writings, it would not be pro-mage.
[/quote]
Elthina wasn't pro-templar and pro mage he was lazy bi*** true not every person in chantry is pro-templar some may be pro-mage doubt that they will control them well justinia passed until she screwd up as leader and lambert was just better than her.To be honest everyone demonize tevinter probably because of magic and slavery in second part some are hypocrites but how it goes depends who is in charge even if control is minor .[/quote]

Yes, but why does everyone demonize the elves? Because they were enemies of the Chantry.

[quote]
 [quote]
Because he was squishy and they'd have gotten him if he didn't
get all of them in one shot. The main weakness of mages in this setting
(and lore and gameplay both agree
with me here) is that they're deliberately kept physically weak and
dressed in robes rather than armor so that they don't get too powerful,
since being able to fight physically and magically is power the Chantry would rather mages not have. I don't think you get that.
[/quote]

In gameplay yes outside gameplay i don't think so as i said they got wrecked they don't have impresive power at least most of them so practically most of them are peasants with homemade flamethrower and be not nothing more unless da proves me otherwise with something more than codex entry where "mages are very powerfu" *five minutes later* help help (mage attacked by mercenary).[/quote]

Except that gameplay agrees with the Codex. I think that's a little bit bigger than you imply. Or a lot.

Also, a peasant with a homemade flamethrower? Assuming it doesn't fall apart and kill him, that guy's fracking dangerous. I think you don't understand what fire does to people, and unless you develop some idea (ideally through research rather than experimentation) this is going to go nowhere.

[quote]
 [quote]
Templars needed lyrium was the original concept idea.
DA:O was
supposed to have lyrium addiction mechanic, but it was cut in the last
minute (you can find refferences in the code) and Alistairs line was
changed to reflect that.

So tempalrs needing lyrium isn't a change going against the original vision. It IS the original vision.
[/quote]

Doesn't matter final version was that templars don't need lyrium. [/quote]

Agreed. This is still a retcon, despite the original plan for the second game containing it, because the final product did not.

[quote]
[quote]leaguer of one wrote...

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

I think we're arguing whether the Qunari would have steamrolled over Thedas had there not been mages.

[/quote]Yes, they would. There is no arguing this.
[/quote]

Even if i forget about what i saw on mage side and their failures it is what if... scenario like what could happen if the warden died in ostagar without darkspawn chronicles we can't rly say i was surprised that alistair managed to get this far.
[/quote]

The mages were the by their own admission the single largest weapon the Chantry had. I think if they hadn't been used, the war would at best have gone on a good deal longer. (That's not "best for the Qunari.")

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 17 octobre 2013 - 12:35 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not the entire game. The whole point of the ending was that even
through all of Varric's exaggerations, the very basic plot (Hawke's
mother, the Arishok, Anders, Meredith, the basics of the DLCs) is true.
He just exaggerated whenever he could manage to make Hawke look more
like a physical god, adding more enemies and making them all weaker.

I doubt that varric distorted the facts he added somethings but not entirely and somehow i don't find reason why varric would tell all hawke side quests and minor quest also.Even quests shows in act 3 that 2/3 mages in meredith quest are abomnations i don't even mention orsino quest where almost every mage is abomination hell even orsino with dumb reason turned into one however i shouldn't even take that as example because that was just stupid on mage side and just for boss battle.

Yes, but why does everyone demonize the elves? Because they were enemies of the Chantry.

Here you must find answer on your own and ask yourself why black peoples were treated very bad in past (well even today we have racist). Well of course throws wood to the fire but see leliana reaction if you are elf warden because she is orlesian.

Except that gameplay agrees with the Codex. I think that's a little bit bigger than you imply. Or a lot.

Also,
a peasant with a homemade flamethrower? Assuming it doesn't fall apart
and kill him, that guy's fracking dangerous. I think you don't
understand what fire does to people, and unless you develop some idea
(ideally through research rather than experimentation) this is going to
go nowhere.

Where?By the way almost every codex entry is wrriten by human not narrator who know everything and even some entries just for game mechanic reasons.
By homemade flamethrower i mean hair spray and lighter just mages have little bigger range no comparing to rl flamethrower range.
I understand what fire can do but we have enchanted items what protects from magic and other stuff and with mage range just throw knife or use bow or crossbows , shield or have enchanted stuff.

The mages were the by their own admission the single largest
weapon the Chantry had. I think if they hadn't been used, the war would
at best have gone on a good deal longer. (That's not "best for the
Qunari.")

Still i don't belive in that better than excellent trained peoples with combat and strategic experience what have much much more peoples like templars and you know they can't turn into abomination however golems still rocks yes i know i know... 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

[quote]TheKomandorShepard wrote...

[quote]
Not the entire game. The whole point of the ending was that even
through all of Varric's exaggerations, the very basic plot (Hawke's
mother, the Arishok, Anders, Meredith, the basics of the DLCs) is true.
He just exaggerated whenever he could manage to make Hawke look more
like a physical god, adding more enemies and making them all weaker.
[/quote]

I doubt that varric distorted the facts he added somethings but not entirely and somehow i don't find reason why varric would tell all hawke side quests and minor quest also.Even quests shows in act 3 that 2/3 mages in meredith quest are abomnations i don't even mention orsino quest where almost every mage is abomination hell even orsino with dumb reason turned into one however i shouldn't even take that as example because that was just stupid on mage side and just for boss battle.[/quote]

With regards to the abomination, he wants to give Hawke more badass feats to boast about. He's taking a hero, sprinkling him with exaggerations, and letting him percolate through a good audience. (Or however he put that.) I didn't see you argue against this one major point in favor of that interpretation; that given how dangerous abominations are, there would be no city if it was so infested with them as the game shows. The sidequests are presumably in case she (or in context of Inquisition, they) run(s) across any consequences of such later.

[quote]
[quote]
Yes, but why does everyone demonize the elves? Because they were enemies of the Chantry.
[/quote]

Here you must find answer on your own and ask yourself why black peoples were treated very bad in past (well even today we have racist). Well of course throws wood to the fire but see leliana reaction if you are elf warden because she is orlesian. [/quote]

I've already given my take, and already seen that scene. (I have done the latter repeatedly.)

[quote]
[quote]
Except that gameplay agrees with the Codex. I think that's a little bit bigger than you imply. Or a lot.

Also,
a peasant with a homemade flamethrower? Assuming it doesn't fall apart
and kill him, that guy's fracking dangerous. I think you don't
understand what fire does to people, and unless you develop some idea
(ideally through research rather than experimentation) this is going to
go nowhere.
[/quote]
Where?[/quote]Internet. Don't do so on a full stomach, by the way.[quote]By the way almost every codex entry is wrriten by human not narrator who know everything and even some entries just for game mechanic reasons.[/quote]
Yes, I have accounted for this in my arguments. You are preaching to the choir.
[quote]
By homemade flamethrower i mean hair spray and lighter just mages have little bigger range no comparing to rl flamethrower range. [/quote]

Sorry, I was picturing a super-soaker with gasoline. This spell, by the way, is one of the very shortest range spells mages have in-game. Everything else reaches a good deal longer.

[quote]
I understand what fire can do but we have enchanted items what protects from magic and other stuff and with mage range just throw knife or use bow or crossbows , shield or have enchanted stuff.[/quote]

Hence my suggestion of having them either put in armor or put behind a phalanx. Do try to keep up.

[quote]
[quote]The mages were the by their own admission the single largest
weapon the Chantry had. I think if they hadn't been used, the war would
at best have gone on a good deal longer. (That's not "best for the
Qunari.")

[/quote]

Still i don't belive in that better than excellent trained peoples with combat and strategic experience what have much much more peoples like templars and you know they can't turn into abomination however golems still rocks yes i know i know... 
[/quote]

... I'm not saying that's better than people with combat and strategic experience. I'm saying that such people can use mages, if they do so intelligently. (See the strategy meeting at Ostagar for what I don't mean.) The Rivain Circle Codex states that the FE managed to stem the Templars temporarily by having that experience due to being a pirate's daughter. Now imagine if they had a rank of pikemen or two. That's what I'm getting at, that mages have a place in a balanced army.

[Medhia Nox]

There could also be a very good reason 'why' the Qunari don't want Tevinter (if indeed they could take it if they desired to)

That land could very well be heavily damaged from all the abuse of magic.

Taking it over would be FAR more effort than it was worth.

Not saying that's the "truth/fact/gospel" reason - but if it were ever mentioned as to why they might want to skirt around Tevinter - I would totally believe it.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 17 octobre 2013 - 01:36 .