2497 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Dalish are serious business.

So it seems!  My Dalish Origins playthrough was one of my most fun.  It's a curious mindset to have for a PC, a Dalish Warden.

[Gwydden]

Morocco Mole wrote...

How dare you mock the plight of the People!?

What plight?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Oooh we're talking about the Dalish again. Funny how this thread seems to go in cycles.

[Gwydden]

Eighty pages talking about mages vs templars gets old fast, I guess.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well, truth be told I do find them more interesting than the Mage vs Templar conflict, personally.

Anyway, when it comes to Alistair's comments on lyrium, I do see that it's something of a retcon and I do understand why people would be upset with that. Normally I'd be up in arms about something like that too, but this time I don't really feel that way. Firstly because it was something that was suppose to be in the first game, but more importantly, templars don't really make sense without it. I never really understood where Templars' powers were supposed to come from unless they were taking lyrium to get them,.

[Xilizhra]

Genocide: the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

In whole or in part. Exiling them also counts.

All right. You want the elves to have a homeland, and you're willing to have them come into it by right of conquest. No one gives a damn about historical claim. It's a nonsensical mess. If the elves want the Dales, they will have to sink to the level of Orlais and won't be able to claim the moral highground anymore.

So how do you propose they get the place back?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Gwydden wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

How dare you mock the plight of the People!?

What plight?

Plight of Blight?

[Gwydden]

Xilizhra wrote...

In whole or in part. Exiling them also counts.

Exile and genocide are two completely different things. You can't just swap their meanings randomly. There wasn't persecution, or systematic extermination. Orlais occupied the Dales and the elves left, simple as that.

Xilizhra wrote...

So how do you propose they get the place back?

Why not look for different land? Unhabited land? Or, considering that the dalish could gain their own land if they helped against the Blight, getting off the high horse and trying to make themselves useful? I'll expect an elf Inquisitor to be able to mediate between humans and his/her kind.

[Br3admax]

Gwydden wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

How dare you mock the plight of the People!?

What plight?

These random tag of misfits is close to extinction friend. People like you are why they keep breeding into humans. 

[Xilizhra]

Exile and genocide are two completely different things. You can't just swap their meanings randomly. There wasn't persecution, or systematic extermination. Orlais occupied the Dales and the elves left, simple as that.

They both count as ethnic cleansing, which this was. The Dalish had to flee to avoid death or virtual enslavement.

Why not look for different land? Unhabited land? Or, considering that the dalish could gain their own land if they helped against the Blight, getting off the high horse and trying to make themselves useful? I'll expect an elf Inquisitor to be able to mediate between humans and his/her kind.

Because there's no ****ing reason the Dalish should have to suck up to humans to get back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

They both count as ethnic cleansing, which this was. The Dalish had to flee to avoid death or virtual enslavement.

They really don't.

Because there's no ****ing reason the Dalish should have to suck up to humans to get back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.

Oh, you have a right to land? I was under the impression that the land belongs to whoever can keep it. But in that case, all of Canada is rightfully mine, and I want it back because I had a random ancestor who lived their once before England took it. Give me back Canada, yo. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In whole or in part. Exiling them also counts.

Exile and genocide are two completely different things. You can't just swap their meanings randomly. There wasn't persecution, or systematic extermination. Orlais occupied the Dales and the elves left, simple as that.

Xilizhra wrote...

So how do you propose they get the place back?

Why not look for different land? Unhabited land? Or, considering that the dalish could gain their own land if they helped against the Blight, getting off the high horse and trying to make themselves useful? I'll expect an elf Inquisitor to be able to mediate between humans and his/her kind.

No offense but this. The whole clinging to the past and tradition and living in seclusion and isolation thing may give them this noble spirit vibe, but it also makes them more useless than the bunch of burnt out hippies occupying wall street now. If they lent their service to a cause than they would probably be more recognized as great warriors and valuable allies, and given rewards as such. They helped andraste and got rewared with new land, they turned against it and lost it, that's just how things went.

At the very least they should be mounting expiditions beyond the map of thedas to see what lies beyond the mountians, or up to the north, or down south, or something more than just going from nation to nation being brooding and murderous.

[Gwydden]

Xilizhra wrote...

They both count as ethnic cleansing, which this was. The Dalish had to flee to avoid death or virtual enslavement.

Fair enough.

Xilizhra wrote...

Because there's no ****ing reason the Dalish should have to suck up to humans to get back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.

I offered three options, and those were only the ones I could think of. I'm sure the elves can come up with quite a few possibilites they could try before armed conflict, if they bothered to.

[Xilizhra]

They really don't.

Read the full definition if you doubt me.

No offense but this. The whole clinging to the past and tradition and living in seclusion and isolation thing may give them this noble spirit vibe, but it also makes them more useless than the bunch of burnt out hippies occupying wall street now. If they lent their service to a cause than they would probably be more recognized as great warriors and valuable allies, and given rewards as such. They helped andraste and got rewared with new land, they turned against it and lost it, that's just how things went.

And if that's all that's morally necessary, we'll grind Orlais into the dirt and call it justified.

[Gwydden]

Br3ad wrote...

These random tag of misfits is close to extinction friend. People like you are why they keep breeding into humans. 

My bad. Sorry.

[Gwydden]

Xilizhra wrote...

And if that's all that's morally necessary, we'll grind Orlais into the dirt and call it justified.

As I said, the elves are free to do so, but it'd only make them hypocrites.

[Xilizhra]

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And if that's all that's morally necessary, we'll grind Orlais into the dirt and call it justified.

As I said, the elves are free to do so, but it'd only make them hypocrites.

So you're saying there's no moral option other than sucking up to thieves and usurpers?

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

They really don't.

Read the full definition if you doubt me.

I would ask you to do the same.

No offense but this. The whole clinging to the past and tradition and living in seclusion and isolation thing may give them this noble spirit vibe, but it also makes them more useless than the bunch of burnt out hippies occupying wall street now. If they lent their service to a cause than they would probably be more recognized as great warriors and valuable allies, and given rewards as such. They helped andraste and got rewared with new land, they turned against it and lost it, that's just how things went.

And if that's all that's morally necessary, we'll grind Orlais into the dirt and call it justified.

Well they can do that, as in they can try. Good luck though. If a country can't protect itself, there is no point in it being a country. Today we only operate differently because of trade and such. 

[Medhia Nox]

Somebody needs to tell LobselVith8 that this thread got back to the Dalish topic.

[Gwydden]

Xilizhra wrote...

So you're saying there's no moral option other than sucking up to thieves and usurpers?

Actually, I'd say there's plenty of options if the elves are willing to try then. And doesn't the Way of the Bow say that you should "bent but never break"? The dalish seem to gleefully ignore the "bent" part.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Xilizhra wrote...

They both count as ethnic cleansing, which this was. The Dalish had to flee to avoid death or virtual enslavement.

You know, I can maybe agree with this. For the most part. It's exactly why I think the Dalish trying to take back the Dales is the worst possible decision because it will lead to more of the same, for one or both sides.

Xilizhra wrote...
Because there's no ****ing reason the Dalish should have to suck up to humans to get back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.

The Dalish can't pretend that humans needs aren't important. Some form of compromise with somebody will be necessary for them to survive or thrive. Seeing as they've been nomads for centuries already and thus they live everywhere in Thedas, it would be more practical for them to look to another piece of land for their future.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 18 octobre 2013 - 07:09 .

[Senya]

Well, I live in the U.S. on land that was stolen from Native Americans about 200 years ago, but I'm not giving it back. I didn't steal it. I purchased it.

Modifié par almostinsane99, 18 octobre 2013 - 07:19 .

[Medhia Nox]

@almostinsane99: Please, PLEASE don't bring the indigenous Americans into this.

The Dalish are nothing like them.

Also - you're still stealing it (as am I), as the indigenous populations have been put into zoos and you're still occupying their land. Only - nobody cares about that.

Instead we argue about fictional snotty shallow hipster elves and their "plight".

[Gwydden]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@almostinsane99: Please, PLEASE don't bring the indigenous Americans into this.

The Dalish are nothing like them.

Also - you're still stealing it (as am I), as the indigenous populations have been put into zoos and you're still occupying their land. Only - nobody cares about that.

Instead we argue about fictional snotty shallow hipster elves and their "plight".

You're making a lot of assumptions. You're assuming people here don't argue, or even do something, about such things. You're also assuming that they don't hold the same standards for a fictional people than for a real group.

Let's keep RL out of this, shall we?