2497 réponses à ce sujet

[Ser Alicia]

Morristair wrote...

The way I see it, as long as the Circle is run like it is in Ferelden, mages have nothing to complain about. They aren't free, but at least it's not as bad as the Circle in Kirkwall. I can honestly say that I see both sides of the issue, but I'll still always support mages in the game. Provided they aren't slitting their wrists and rampaging through the streets, of course.

I completely agree. Especially with that last sentence.
I personally support the mages, but I do understand why some would want to support the templars. This mage vs templar issue is an extremely grey area, and I love it. Sometimes I see myself swaying between sides, not sure of who I want to support. Like, during DAII, I didn't know if I was pro-mage or pro-templar until the very end and even then I was hesitant. (I mean, seriously, Orsino? Why would you want to prove Meredith right?)

Modifié par TheBioticAssassin, 30 septembre 2013 - 03:22 .

[Plaintiff]

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Morristair wrote...

The way I see it, as long as the Circle is run like it is in Ferelden, mages have nothing to complain about. They aren't free, but at least it's not as bad as the Circle in Kirkwall. I can honestly say that I see both sides of the issue, but I'll still always support mages in the game. Provided they aren't slitting their wrists and rampaging through the streets, of course.

I completely agree. Especially with that last sentence.
I personally support the mages, but I do understand why some would want to support the templars. This mage vs templar issue is an extremely grey area, and I love it. Sometimes I see myself swaying between sides, not sure of who I want to support. Like, during DAII, I didn't know if I was pro-mage or pro-templar until the very end and even then I was hesitant. (I mean, seriously, Orsino? Why would you want to prove Meredith right?)

Lol.

Sure, as long as the circles are run like the one in Ferelden, where mages get their children stolen from them, and apprentices are needlessly murdered, there's nothing to complain about.

Wut.

[Senya]

BlueMagitek wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If you help the mages, all elves die. Bioware make it happen.

Don't do this bioware... I will seriously kill every mage if you do this.

Pick Orlais -> Elves gain full rights as citizens, Mages return to Circles.
Pick Tevinter -> All elves are enslaved to pre-Andraste levels, Mages gain full rights as citizens and join lower nobility status.

Do this Bioware!:devil::devil::devil::devil:

Ah, Greyness.

[Thunderfox]

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sorry, but they is no way to make so that mages are 100% resistant from demons. Even the one that pass the harrowing  must be vigilet and fight demons all there lives. It's a case that it would never be perfect.

The Circle doesn't even try to arm its students properly, it just lobotomizes, imprisons and kills them based on an arbitrary, subjective judgement of "weakness".

Ok I Lied I'm back.

Look at Uldred, he was senior Enchanter and up there in the Ferelden Circle Hierarchy. Look at Orsino. He semi-condoned whats-his-name's necromantic experiments. There are plenty of examples of older, more experienced, "Stronger Mages" succumbing and becoming Abominations. So who then will "arm the students"? The Tevinter Magisters so they can teach Mage Supremacy and glory of Slavery?

If the end result is a reduction in demonic possessions, then sure, why not.

But given what we know of Tevinter, I don't think they'd be interested.

The Circle has had a thousand years to develop better methods of repelling demons. That it hasn't done so is a flaw of the system.

Sometimes there is no better system. Besides if there was a more fool-proof way of warding off possession the setting would be alot less interesting.

Modifié par ThunderfoxF, 30 septembre 2013 - 03:32 .

[Ser Alicia]

Plaintiff wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Morristair wrote...

The way I see it, as long as the Circle is run like it is in Ferelden, mages have nothing to complain about. They aren't free, but at least it's not as bad as the Circle in Kirkwall. I can honestly say that I see both sides of the issue, but I'll still always support mages in the game. Provided they aren't slitting their wrists and rampaging through the streets, of course.

I completely agree. Especially with that last sentence.
I personally support the mages, but I do understand why some would want to support the templars. This mage vs templar issue is an extremely grey area, and I love it. Sometimes I see myself swaying between sides, not sure of who I want to support. Like, during DAII, I didn't know if I was pro-mage or pro-templar until the very end and even then I was hesitant. (I mean, seriously, Orsino? Why would you want to prove Meredith right?)

Lol.

Sure, as long as the circles are run like the one in Ferelden, where mages get their children stolen from them, and apprentices are needlessly murdered, there's nothing to complain about.

Wut.

If you compare it to Kirkwall's circle, you'll see that, in spite of it's major flaws, Ferelden's circle was much better for the mages.
I'd much rather have mages be free than in a circle, but if they have to be in a circle, I hope it's like Ferelden's.

[Plaintiff]

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Morristair wrote...

The way I see it, as long as the Circle is run like it is in Ferelden, mages have nothing to complain about. They aren't free, but at least it's not as bad as the Circle in Kirkwall. I can honestly say that I see both sides of the issue, but I'll still always support mages in the game. Provided they aren't slitting their wrists and rampaging through the streets, of course.

I completely agree. Especially with that last sentence.
I personally support the mages, but I do understand why some would want to support the templars. This mage vs templar issue is an extremely grey area, and I love it. Sometimes I see myself swaying between sides, not sure of who I want to support. Like, during DAII, I didn't know if I was pro-mage or pro-templar until the very end and even then I was hesitant. (I mean, seriously, Orsino? Why would you want to prove Meredith right?)

Lol.

Sure, as long as the circles are run like the one in Ferelden, where mages get their children stolen from them, and apprentices are needlessly murdered, there's nothing to complain about.

Wut.

If you compare it to Kirkwall's circle, you'll see that, in spite of it's major flaws, Ferelden's circle was much better for the mages.
I'd much rather have mages be free than in a circle, but if they have to be in a circle, I hope it's like Ferelden's.

"If you compare it to being murdered outright, you'll see that, in spite of its major flaws, having your face ripped off and force-fed to you is much better."

"Much better" isn't good enough.

[Plaintiff]

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sorry, but they is no way to make so that mages are 100% resistant from demons. Even the one that pass the harrowing  must be vigilet and fight demons all there lives. It's a case that it would never be perfect.

The Circle doesn't even try to arm its students properly, it just lobotomizes, imprisons and kills them based on an arbitrary, subjective judgement of "weakness".

Ok I Lied I'm back.

Look at Uldred, he was senior Enchanter and up there in the Ferelden Circle Hierarchy. Look at Orsino. He semi-condoned whats-his-name's necromantic experiments. There are plenty of examples of older, more experienced, "Stronger Mages" succumbing and becoming Abominations. So who then will "arm the students"? The Tevinter Magisters so they can teach Mage Supremacy and glory of Slavery?

If the end result is a reduction in demonic possessions, then sure, why not.

But given what we know of Tevinter, I don't think they'd be interested.

The Circle has had a thousand years to develop better methods of repelling demons. That it hasn't done so is a flaw of the system.

Sometimes there is no better system. Besides if there was a more fool-proof way of warding off possession the setting would be alot less interesting.

That's no excuse to stop looking for it. But as far as can be seen, no effort was ever made.

[Vit246]

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Morristair wrote...

The way I see it, as long as the Circle is run like it is in Ferelden, mages have nothing to complain about. They aren't free, but at least it's not as bad as the Circle in Kirkwall. I can honestly say that I see both sides of the issue, but I'll still always support mages in the game. Provided they aren't slitting their wrists and rampaging through the streets, of course.

I completely agree. Especially with that last sentence.
I personally support the mages, but I do understand why some would want to support the templars. This mage vs templar issue is an extremely grey area, and I love it. Sometimes I see myself swaying between sides, not sure of who I want to support. Like, during DAII, I didn't know if I was pro-mage or pro-templar until the very end and even then I was hesitant. (I mean, seriously, Orsino? Why would you want to prove Meredith right?)

Lol.

Sure, as long as the circles are run like the one in Ferelden, where mages get their children stolen from them, and apprentices are needlessly murdered, there's nothing to complain about.

Wut.

If you compare it to Kirkwall's circle, you'll see that, in spite of it's major flaws, Ferelden's circle was much better for the mages.
I'd much rather have mages be free than in a circle, but if they have to be in a circle, I hope it's like Ferelden's.

Of course, compared to Kirkwall, Ferelden's Circle was better. But for the part where Ferelden mages have nothing to complain about.....well thats debatable.

[Senya]

d-boy15 wrote...

A good read from lead writer turn in to stupid SSDD discussion about Templar and Mage.

Really? You're surprised? It's why I don't spend much time on these threads.

Believe it or not, I was a Mage supporter before I read some posts from the Mage supporters here.

[Ser Alicia]

Vit246 wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Morristair wrote...

The way I see it, as long as the Circle is run like it is in Ferelden, mages have nothing to complain about. They aren't free, but at least it's not as bad as the Circle in Kirkwall. I can honestly say that I see both sides of the issue, but I'll still always support mages in the game. Provided they aren't slitting their wrists and rampaging through the streets, of course.

I completely agree. Especially with that last sentence.
I personally support the mages, but I do understand why some would want to support the templars. This mage vs templar issue is an extremely grey area, and I love it. Sometimes I see myself swaying between sides, not sure of who I want to support. Like, during DAII, I didn't know if I was pro-mage or pro-templar until the very end and even then I was hesitant. (I mean, seriously, Orsino? Why would you want to prove Meredith right?)

Lol.

Sure, as long as the circles are run like the one in Ferelden, where mages get their children stolen from them, and apprentices are needlessly murdered, there's nothing to complain about.

Wut.

If you compare it to Kirkwall's circle, you'll see that, in spite of it's major flaws, Ferelden's circle was much better for the mages.
I'd much rather have mages be free than in a circle, but if they have to be in a circle, I hope it's like Ferelden's.

Of course, compared to Kirkwall, Ferelden's Circle was better. But for the part where Ferelden mages have nothing to complain about.....well thats debatable.

Yeah, I had forgotten most of the bad things he had mentioned.  I haven't played DAO in ages, so my memory of it is a bit rusty. I mostly remember it being a lot better compared to Kirkwall's circle.

[addiction21]

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

I'd much rather have mages be free than in a circle, but if they have to be in a circle, I hope it's like Ferelden's.

I'd prefer townships then circles. Where they are allowed to live lives and apply their talents. Whether it be runes, healing or other uses of magic. Places where they may be watched but are taught by the experienced mages and not to repeat the mistakes of the past.  Of course their would be a "police force" but it wouldn't be tied to a religious dogma.

[Ser Alicia]

Plaintiff wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

Morristair wrote...

The way I see it, as long as the Circle is run like it is in Ferelden, mages have nothing to complain about. They aren't free, but at least it's not as bad as the Circle in Kirkwall. I can honestly say that I see both sides of the issue, but I'll still always support mages in the game. Provided they aren't slitting their wrists and rampaging through the streets, of course.

I completely agree. Especially with that last sentence.
I personally support the mages, but I do understand why some would want to support the templars. This mage vs templar issue is an extremely grey area, and I love it. Sometimes I see myself swaying between sides, not sure of who I want to support. Like, during DAII, I didn't know if I was pro-mage or pro-templar until the very end and even then I was hesitant. (I mean, seriously, Orsino? Why would you want to prove Meredith right?)

Lol.

Sure, as long as the circles are run like the one in Ferelden, where mages get their children stolen from them, and apprentices are needlessly murdered, there's nothing to complain about.

Wut.

If you compare it to Kirkwall's circle, you'll see that, in spite of it's major flaws, Ferelden's circle was much better for the mages.
I'd much rather have mages be free than in a circle, but if they have to be in a circle, I hope it's like Ferelden's.

"If you compare it to being murdered outright, you'll see that, in spite of its major flaws, having your face ripped off and force-fed to you is much better."

"Much better" isn't good enough.

Well, it's never going to be perfect, is it? Nothing is ever good enough.
Can we just end this discussion? I doubt people want to watch us squabble back and forth.

Modifié par TheBioticAssassin, 30 septembre 2013 - 03:49 .

[Ser Alicia]

addiction21 wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

I'd much rather have mages be free than in a circle, but if they have to be in a circle, I hope it's like Ferelden's.

I'd prefer townships then circles. Where they are allowed to live lives and apply their talents. Whether it be runes, healing or other uses of magic. Places where they may be watched but are taught by the experienced mages and not to repeat the mistakes of the past.  Of course their would be a "police force" but it wouldn't be tied to a religious dogma.

Plus, they'd have more freedom, which is what I truly want for mages.

[Thunderfox]

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sorry, but they is no way to make so that mages are 100% resistant from demons. Even the one that pass the harrowing  must be vigilet and fight demons all there lives. It's a case that it would never be perfect.

The Circle doesn't even try to arm its students properly, it just lobotomizes, imprisons and kills them based on an arbitrary, subjective judgement of "weakness".

Ok I Lied I'm back.

Look at Uldred, he was senior Enchanter and up there in the Ferelden Circle Hierarchy. Look at Orsino. He semi-condoned whats-his-name's necromantic experiments. There are plenty of examples of older, more experienced, "Stronger Mages" succumbing and becoming Abominations. So who then will "arm the students"? The Tevinter Magisters so they can teach Mage Supremacy and glory of Slavery?

If the end result is a reduction in demonic possessions, then sure, why not.

But given what we know of Tevinter, I don't think they'd be interested.

The Circle has had a thousand years to develop better methods of repelling demons. That it hasn't done so is a flaw of the system.

Sometimes there is no better system. Besides if there was a more fool-proof way of warding off possession the setting would be alot less interesting.

That's no excuse to stop looking for it. But as far as can be seen, no effort was ever made.

Yes, because we know the whole history of the Circle and all its research projects...

Modifié par ThunderfoxF, 30 septembre 2013 - 04:00 .

[dragonflight288]

Well, it's never going to be perfect, is it? Nothing is ever good enough.
Can we just end this discussion? I doubt people want to watch us squabble back and forth.

But the discussion is so much fun. lol

Anyway, I thin Ferelden's Circle would be good, if they allowed family visits, didn't take children away from the parents at birth, didn't force tranquility on people, and didn't kill children.

Not much to ask for.

[TEWR]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

My eyes

MY EYES

You're supposed to wear the goggles!

...wait! The goggles do nothing!

[In Exile]

Although people love relating mages to weapons, I don't think that's the right analogy. The right analogy is mages to the ultra wealthy. In an ideal society, the danger of inequality and oppression won't come from a mage spontaneously nuking a town (hell, they don't even do that in Tevinter and that place is a "LOL" on the good-evil scale).

We're not talking about gun control as a policy, but socialism vs. libertarianism. The solution offered by the Chantry, though, is gun control, which is what makes it so useless (putting aside how immoral it is in theory and practice).

Modifié par In Exile, 30 septembre 2013 - 04:31 .

[Fredward]

The only simplistic thing here is the belief that the fanbase's feels on this topic can be separated into two dichotomies. Have you read some of the arguments? With the regular customers it is NEVER that straightforward. I particularly dislike the implication* of Western values being the contributing factor to wanting mage freedom and not like, independent thought.

But it's human to make generilizations about large groups of people. Especially if the most salient group is loud and negative a lot of the time, it's not fun or easy to form individual, nuanced opinions when a bulk of 'em is spitting vitriol on your nice carpet.

* - implication.

[Lotion Soronarr]

*reads DG's message*

Some faith in DG: Restored.

[Vicious]

Got nothing against mages, plenty of people have mages in their families and they like sitting around drinking beer just like you and me. Got nothing against Templars, they just want to protect normal people.

But I have everything against demons though... because IF IT WASN'T FOR DEMONS WE'D HAVE NO PROBLEM AT ALL!

I think i'm gonna storm the black city myself and kick their asses. WHO'S WITH ME?

/inquisition is formed

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ukki wrote...

Mage revolution is not a cliche. In fact it is kind of reversed andrastian overthroving of current powers.

A opressed minority rising up and ending the status quo, which ends in happines for everyone - that is a cliche he was reffering to.

For example, assuming 10% of Humans in Thedas are Mages.

They're not. Mages are far rarer than that.
Try 1%.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sorry, but they is no way to make so that mages are 100% resistant from demons. Even the one that pass the harrowing  must be vigilet and fight demons all there lives. It's a case that it would never be perfect.

The Circle doesn't even try to arm its students properly, it just lobotomizes, imprisons and kills them based on an arbitrary, subjective judgement of "weakness".

Ok I Lied I'm back.

Look at Uldred, he was senior Enchanter and up there in the Ferelden Circle Hierarchy. Look at Orsino. He semi-condoned whats-his-name's necromantic experiments. There are plenty of examples of older, more experienced, "Stronger Mages" succumbing and becoming Abominations. So who then will "arm the students"? The Tevinter Magisters so they can teach Mage Supremacy and glory of Slavery?

If the end result is a reduction in demonic possessions, then sure, why not.

But given what we know of Tevinter, I don't think they'd be interested.

The Circle has had a thousand years to develop better methods of repelling demons. That it hasn't done so is a flaw of the system.

Sometimes there is no better system. Besides if there was a more fool-proof way of warding off possession the setting would be alot less interesting.

That's no excuse to stop looking for it. But as far as can be seen, no effort was ever made.

If the Imperium hasn't found a way to do it, what makes you think anyone else will?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@LobselVith8: Then Mr.House wouldn't be talking about those people.

But if you think there are not certain posters on here that excuse any mage behavior because: bad day, hurt feelings, heard of some mage who once had a Templar say something mean - I think you're not paying attention.

Plenty of posters like that. Mages are never to blame. It's always the Chantry..or the templars. Usually both.
Case in point: Connor.

Xil wrte..
What I'm saying is that it'd be considered just as "good" an option if no side has any moral superiority over any other.

And yet you keep claiming that one side does have a clear moral superiority to all others.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...
I don't ignore it, I just don't care.

Same difference.

In the real world, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many things possess the ability to kill me, or kill a lot of people at once. Electricity, for instance. Radiation. Cars.

Like these technologies and more, the dangers of magic are proportional to its considerable benefits. If the Chantry and its adherents want to cower in fear of it like ignorant cavemen, that's their business. I'm more intereted in leading Thedas out of its primitive quagmire.

Neither electricity, radiation or cars can mind control you, compeltely loose control if they have a bad day (or get drunk) nor have demons whispering to them every night.
Also, cars can't get into your house and murder you in your sleep.

[Plaintiff]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sorry, but they is no way to make so that mages are 100% resistant from demons. Even the one that pass the harrowing  must be vigilet and fight demons all there lives. It's a case that it would never be perfect.

The Circle doesn't even try to arm its students properly, it just lobotomizes, imprisons and kills them based on an arbitrary, subjective judgement of "weakness".

Ok I Lied I'm back.

Look at Uldred, he was senior Enchanter and up there in the Ferelden Circle Hierarchy. Look at Orsino. He semi-condoned whats-his-name's necromantic experiments. There are plenty of examples of older, more experienced, "Stronger Mages" succumbing and becoming Abominations. So who then will "arm the students"? The Tevinter Magisters so they can teach Mage Supremacy and glory of Slavery?

If the end result is a reduction in demonic possessions, then sure, why not.

But given what we know of Tevinter, I don't think they'd be interested.

The Circle has had a thousand years to develop better methods of repelling demons. That it hasn't done so is a flaw of the system.

Sometimes there is no better system. Besides if there was a more fool-proof way of warding off possession the setting would be alot less interesting.

That's no excuse to stop looking for it. But as far as can be seen, no effort was ever made.

If the Imperium hasn't found a way to do it, what makes you think anyone else will?

Tevinter isn't a demon-ravaged wasteland, so it probably has. I just meant they wouldn't be interested in helping other nations do the same.