2497 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Tevinter does have horrible human rights violations though.

Though I guess it is different when the mages do the oppressing.

I never said it was better at all. I don't see how what goes on in Tevinter is even relevant to the situation elsewhere.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 30 septembre 2013 - 07:12 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...
If you feel that mind control is worse than cancer, or being murdered outright, or that demons are worse than gasoline fires or nuclear explosives, then feel free to stay in your cave.

Seriously?
Yes. Very much yes.

Being mind controled by a blood mages is  about the worst thing that can happen. You are forced to do ANYTHING without any possibiltiy of escape.
"You there slave, take this knife and carve your name into your wifes chest...not too deep. I don't want her dead...yet.
Now you're gonna watch as I rape her and you're gonna cheer for me all the way!"

Faaaaaaaaaaaaar worse then a desease you can fight.


And demons & gasoline? Last time I checked, gasoline doesn't have a mind of it's own and is outright attempting to wear you like a sweater.

That post of yours is too hillarious to be true. You seriously are going forth with that argument? What on earth made you think it was a good one?
You drunk or something?

It's like you're deliberately spreading your butthole and painting a big target on it.
Easy pickin's

[CynicalShep]

Mr.House wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Good and evil are best saved for star wars. This is dragon age, let meritocratic morality decide.

Agent and trooper story do grey better then DA.

Hell, Sith Warrior does grey better than DA

[Vicious]

CynicalShep wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Good and evil are best saved for star wars. This is dragon age, let meritocratic morality decide.

Agent and trooper story do grey better then DA.

Hell, Sith Warrior does grey better than DA

dat budget

[CynicalShep]

Plaintiff wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm well aware of the difficulty of the situation. and that didn't stop me from picking a side very easily.

It is very easy to pick sides when you ignore everything that does not support your impulsive predisposition. 

I don't ignore it, I just don't care.

In the real world, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many things possess the ability to kill me, or kill a lot of people at once. Electricity, for instance. Radiation. Cars.

Like these technologies and more, the dangers of magic are proportional to its considerable benefits. If the Chantry and its adherents want to cower in fear of it like ignorant cavemen, that's their business. I'm more intereted in leading Thedas out of its primitive quagmire.

I never knew any of that could mind control a person or summon a demon that could bring corpses to life to ravage a town.

If you feel that mind control is worse than cancer, or being murdered outright, or that demons are worse than gasoline fires or nuclear explosives, then feel free to stay in your cave.

Come again? Mind control is worse than both cancer and death. First tortures me, second kills me and the third can make me kill my family. I can fight fire with water and radiation with a radiation suit. What am I going to fight demons with, a fork? I'll live in a cave if the alternative is bathing in molten lava. 

[Plaintiff]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Seriously?
Yes. Very much yes.

Being mind controled by a blood mages is  about the worst thing that can happen. You are forced to do ANYTHING without any possibiltiy of escape.
"You there slave, take this knife and carve your name into your wifes chest...not too deep. I don't want her dead...yet.
Now you're gonna watch as I rape her and you're gonna cheer for me all the way!"

Faaaaaaaaaaaaar worse then a desease you can fight.

You can fight mind control. We've seen it done.

And none of that sounds worse to me than being dead. I can recover from all that. Hell, rape isn't even in my list of top ten worst things that can happen to a person.

And demons & gasoline? Last time I checked, gasoline doesn't have a mind of it's own and is outright attempting to wear you like a sweater.

They both have the potential to horribly mutilate and ultimately kill you. Beyond that, you're just splitting hairs.

It's like you're deliberately spreading your butthole and painting a big target on it.
Easy pickin's

Again, more comments on my sexual proclivities. What is it with you people?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 30 septembre 2013 - 07:27 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sorry, but they is no way to make so that mages are 100% resistant from demons. Even the one that pass the harrowing  must be vigilet and fight demons all there lives. It's a case that it would never be perfect.

The Circle doesn't even try to arm its students properly, it just lobotomizes, imprisons and kills them based on an arbitrary, subjective judgement of "weakness".

Ok I Lied I'm back.

Look at Uldred, he was senior Enchanter and up there in the Ferelden Circle Hierarchy. Look at Orsino. He semi-condoned whats-his-name's necromantic experiments. There are plenty of examples of older, more experienced, "Stronger Mages" succumbing and becoming Abominations. So who then will "arm the students"? The Tevinter Magisters so they can teach Mage Supremacy and glory of Slavery?

If the end result is a reduction in demonic possessions, then sure, why not.

But given what we know of Tevinter, I don't think they'd be interested.

The Circle has had a thousand years to develop better methods of repelling demons. That it hasn't done so is a flaw of the system.

Sometimes there is no better system. Besides if there was a more fool-proof way of warding off possession the setting would be alot less interesting.

That's no excuse to stop looking for it. But as far as can be seen, no effort was ever made.

If the Imperium hasn't found a way to do it, what makes you think anyone else will?

Tevinter isn't a demon-ravaged wasteland, so it probably has. I just meant they wouldn't be interested in helping other nations do the same.

Yeah, their solution is to allow mages to kill eachother so that the strong thrive and the weak die underfoot. And even than, there are accounts of magisters becoming abominations and needing to be destroyed.

So It's not really a solution, just a very darwinian way to reduce the problem.

[Plaintiff]

CynicalShep wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm well aware of the difficulty of the situation. and that didn't stop me from picking a side very easily.

It is very easy to pick sides when you ignore everything that does not support your impulsive predisposition. 

I don't ignore it, I just don't care.

In the real world, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many things possess the ability to kill me, or kill a lot of people at once. Electricity, for instance. Radiation. Cars.

Like these technologies and more, the dangers of magic are proportional to its considerable benefits. If the Chantry and its adherents want to cower in fear of it like ignorant cavemen, that's their business. I'm more intereted in leading Thedas out of its primitive quagmire.

I never knew any of that could mind control a person or summon a demon that could bring corpses to life to ravage a town.

If you feel that mind control is worse than cancer, or being murdered outright, or that demons are worse than gasoline fires or nuclear explosives, then feel free to stay in your cave.

Come again? Mind control is worse than both cancer and death. First tortures me, second kills me and the third can make me kill my family. I can fight fire with water and radiation with a radiation suit. What am I going to fight demons with, a fork? I'll live in a cave if the alternative is bathing in molten lava.

Literally every single demon we've ever seen went down like a ****, even without a mage on the team.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...

Preventing people from researching blood magic and demons also prevents you from researching any effective way to combat them.

Research is restrictedon far more variables than that.
Blood Magic and demonic research is not compeltely forbidden - it is heavily monitored and restricted.

We do have books writen by Cirlce mages on their researches. Like the mages that summoned demons to study them.

The circle does train their mages to the point they can repeal demons and not miss use there magic.

Yeah, that's worked out really well for them so far. Derp.

If mages are being trained to repel Demons, then how come a significant portion fail their Harrowing? How come a significant portion of mages are made Tranquil before even getting the chance?

If circle training was in any way effective, that wouldn't be happening.

Assumption. Assumption that without training, things wouldn't be far worse. (also an assumption that significant portion of mages fail the Harrowing)

Assumption that resisting possesion is something that even can be tought, or that it is easy to teach.

Lack of resoruces and the candidate being judged a liabiltiy.

[Bionuts]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
If you feel that mind control is worse than cancer, or being murdered outright, or that demons are worse than gasoline fires or nuclear explosives, then feel free to stay in your cave.

Seriously?
Yes. Very much yes.

Being mind controled by a blood mages is  about the worst thing that can happen. You are forced to do ANYTHING without any possibiltiy of escape.
"You there slave, take this knife and carve your name into your wifes chest...not too deep. I don't want her dead...yet.
Now you're gonna watch as I rape her and you're gonna cheer for me all the way!"

Faaaaaaaaaaaaar worse then a desease you can fight.


And demons & gasoline? Last time I checked, gasoline doesn't have a mind of it's own and is outright attempting to wear you like a sweater.

That post of yours is too hillarious to be true. You seriously are going forth with that argument? What on earth made you think it was a good one?
You drunk or something?

It's like you're deliberately spreading your butthole and painting a big target on it.
Easy pickin's

:D:D:D:D
lol

[Vicious]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Because you're the PC. You are the mary sue to end all mary sues

Most Bioware fans will settle for nothing less.

[GodWood]

It's good to see Gaider's approach to the mage/Templar debate is still reasonable. Of course he still had such opinions during the writing of DA2 and that was handled poorly.

Thanks to the DA team's ability to treat complex issues in a morally grey way I'm still keeping my eye on the DA franchise however I will remain skeptical.

Xilizhra wrote...
No it doesn't. Magic is just a tool used by the magisters in the pursuit of tyranny; it's not the cause of tyranny.

With or without magic tyranny may still exist yes, however with 'free' magic tyranny's existence is not only likely but inevitable.

A free mage society creates an uneven distribution of power and ability between mages and non-mages. Due to the necessity for mages to be trained and educated they will more likely be more educated then their non-mage kin; because of their magical ability they will have greater productive use; because of their greater education and greater productive use they will inevitably be the leaders of production, industry and so on.

Eventually thanks to the mages distinct advantages over the non-mages they will be in control of all forms of power be it political, economic, social, etc. This will inevitably lead to environment where the only 'competitors' for power are the mages with the most magical power. Of course this will create a power struggle where the most important way to ascertain power over other mages is to have greater magical power and the most effective way to have greater magical power is through death and blood-magic.

This leads to the inevitable use of non-mages (and lesser mages) as merely sacks of potential magical power to be enslaved and butchered en masse to fuel their magical power against rival mages.

Modifié par GodWood, 30 septembre 2013 - 08:02 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm well aware of the difficulty of the situation. and that didn't stop me from picking a side very easily.

It is very easy to pick sides when you ignore everything that does not support your impulsive predisposition. 

I don't ignore it, I just don't care.

In the real world, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many things possess the ability to kill me, or kill a lot of people at once. Electricity, for instance. Radiation. Cars.

Like these technologies and more, the dangers of magic are proportional to its considerable benefits. If the Chantry and its adherents want to cower in fear of it like ignorant cavemen, that's their business. I'm more intereted in leading Thedas out of its primitive quagmire.

I never knew any of that could mind control a person or summon a demon that could bring corpses to life to ravage a town.

If you feel that mind control is worse than cancer, or being murdered outright, or that demons are worse than gasoline fires or nuclear explosives, then feel free to stay in your cave.

Come again? Mind control is worse than both cancer and death. First tortures me, second kills me and the third can make me kill my family. I can fight fire with water and radiation with a radiation suit. What am I going to fight demons with, a fork? I'll live in a cave if the alternative is bathing in molten lava.

Literally every single demon we've ever seen went down like a ****, even without a mage on the team.

, the segregation between lore and gameplay. It’s something
we’ve been trying to address, but ultimately a player mage (or the mages
in the player’s party) don’t really encounter the same issues that
mages at large do.

...

Could we force such difficulties on the player? We could, and perhaps
it will come to that. That’s an issue of agency, however, which relates
to gameplay. It’s the same reason that player Templars didn’t need to
be addicted to lyrium, or how non-Warden party members in DAO happened
to never contract the Blight despite repeated close encounters with
darkspawn. Lucky them!

Applies to other aspects as well, like how the player can easily overcome demons when they are suppose to be much harder to kill.

[Vicious]

Of course he still had such opinions during the writing of DA2 and that was handled poorly.

How so? While I prefer a more realistic approach to conflicts, given the universe we simply can't ignore that pretty much everything that happened in Kirkwall that wasn't Qunari was heavily influenced by demons - and where magic is involved, you can't escape them. They even infiltrated the templars to an unknown degree.

I really saw no problem with the templar/mage portrayal of DA2... it was never very good, but it was acceptable. But as the years wear it went south when outside sources began having their way... Meredith didn't go crazy due to the idol itself... the spirits haunting her (the ones that haunt red lyrium, period) did...

Not a cop out or bad writing in a fantasy universe with tons of precedence behind it.

[CynicalShep]

Plaintiff wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm well aware of the difficulty of the situation. and that didn't stop me from picking a side very easily.

It is very easy to pick sides when you ignore everything that does not support your impulsive predisposition. 

I don't ignore it, I just don't care.

In the real world, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many things possess the ability to kill me, or kill a lot of people at once. Electricity, for instance. Radiation. Cars.

Like these technologies and more, the dangers of magic are proportional to its considerable benefits. If the Chantry and its adherents want to cower in fear of it like ignorant cavemen, that's their business. I'm more intereted in leading Thedas out of its primitive quagmire.

I never knew any of that could mind control a person or summon a demon that could bring corpses to life to ravage a town.

If you feel that mind control is worse than cancer, or being murdered outright, or that demons are worse than gasoline fires or nuclear explosives, then feel free to stay in your cave.

Come again? Mind control is worse than both cancer and death. First tortures me, second kills me and the third can make me kill my family. I can fight fire with water and radiation with a radiation suit. What am I going to fight demons with, a fork? I'll live in a cave if the alternative is bathing in molten lava.

Literally every single demon we've ever seen went down like a ****, even without a mage on the team.

I'm not a battle hardened warden in full-body armor, accompanied by a death squad. I've had hand to hand training, self-defense against knives and blunt weapons and I run pretty fast. I'm better equipped than three quarters of the DA universe and 90% of humanity and I still don't stand a chance if a lesser demon was to somehow get the jump on me. 
Also, it is my understanding that you conceded the point regarding mind control?

Modifié par CynicalShep, 30 septembre 2013 - 07:51 .

[Plaintiff]

CynicalShep wrote...
I'm not a battle hardened warden in full-body armor, accompanied by a death squad. I've had hand to hand training, self-defense against knives and blunt weapons and I run pretty fast. I'm better equipped than three quarters of the DA universe and 90% of humanity and I still don't stand a chance if a lesser demon was to somehow get the jump on me. 
Also, it is my understanding that you conceded the point regarding mind control?

No, I haven't conceded the point. If you think being mind-controlled is worse than a bunch of other awful things that can happen to you, then that's your prerogative. I maintain that they're roughly on par with each other.

[CynicalShep]

Plaintiff wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...
I'm not a battle hardened warden in full-body armor, accompanied by a death squad. I've had hand to hand training, self-defense against knives and blunt weapons and I run pretty fast. I'm better equipped than three quarters of the DA universe and 90% of humanity and I still don't stand a chance if a lesser demon was to somehow get the jump on me. 
Also, it is my understanding that you conceded the point regarding mind control?

No, I haven't conceded the point. If you think being mind-controlled is worse than a bunch of other awful things that can happen to you, then that's your prerogative. I maintain that they're roughly on par with each other.

Depends on your priorities. To me, my family's life is infinitely more important than my own. I'd rather endure torture and die in the most horrible agony imaginable than be forced to do this to them. If you value your life above everything and everyone else this conversation is pointless because we will never reach an agreement. 
And you're still a Mary Sue. You're the BAMF of the DA universe. You can and will kill armies in a DA game. The fact that you, the top dog, can easily down a demon and load the game should he kill you doesn't mean demons are on par with gasoline fire and radiation. 

[PinkysPain]

Frankly I think the OP won't be satisfied until after supporting the mages the game says "the mages won, demons overran the earth ... game over, make the right decision next time".

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...

I never said magic shouldn't be regulated. But it shouldn't be regulated by an organization with a clear religious bias.

As opposed to an organization with some other kind of bias?
You're always gonan have interestes and bias.
So what makes this worse than any other bias?
Nothing.

[Rolling Flame]

Morocco Mole wrote...

No, I haven't conceded the point. If you think being mind-controlled is worse than a bunch of other awful things that can happen to you, then that's your prerogative. I maintain that they're roughly on par with each other.

losing control of your actions and being puppeted by someone else is a pretty terrible thing my friend. Many would argue that it is worse than death.

Keep in mind that the mage is also using your blood to dictate your movement. That would not be a pleasant feeling.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...
"Much better" isn't good enough.

It will have to be.

There are no perfect solutions and mages sometimes suffering from abuse of pwoer is no differentthan anyone else sometimes suffering from abuse of power. Abuse of power will AWLAYS happen.
Perfect systems don't exist, especially not in medieval societies. You can only work to recude it.

Your way of thinking it extremist to the extreeme.
"A police officer murder a guy and got away with it because there was no evidence! KIL ALL THE POLICE!"

[Ravensword]

Morocco Mole wrote...

No, I haven't conceded the point. If you think being mind-controlled is worse than a bunch of other awful things that can happen to you, then that's your prerogative. I maintain that they're roughly on par with each other.

losing control of your actions and being puppeted by someone else is a pretty terrible thing my friend. Many would argue that it is worse than death.

No. He'll just take it in stride w/ the assurance that it's not cancer.