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[Shadow Fox]

Br3ad wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Lobs you keep pointing out that the Dalish Warden can say the Chantry was sorely at fault like it means something while ignoring that the Warden even Elven Wardens can also state the Dalish shared the blame for what happened.

Those Warden's are obviously indoctrinated and evil, even if they lived solely among the Dalish. The Chantry got to them in the few months between the Origin and Ostagar. Obviously. 

Even Dwarves underground?!?:blink:Damn those guys are good.

You should've known when you saw that priest. It's like an infection. 

*Dwarven Wardens warily look at Alistair and Leliana*

[Br3admax]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Lobs you keep pointing out that the Dalish Warden can say the Chantry was sorely at fault like it means something while ignoring that the Warden even Elven Wardens can also state the Dalish shared the blame for what happened.

You don't seem to have even read my posts. I pointed out that the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert. Despite the attempts by some pro-Chantry posters to act as though only the Chantry version exists, that simply isn't true.

I hate the Chantry, and even I believe them over "Big scary humans." 

[Senya]

LobselVith8 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

The same can be said to you.

Pointing out that there's more than the Chantry version to the fall of the Dales is what I did. It's more than a little ludicrous at how far Chantry supporters will go to try to act as though there's only the Chantry version to the fall of the Dales.

almostinsane99 wrote...

And I've seen many of the Dalish codexes. The Dales, for example, is inscribed "as told by Gisharel, keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves". That along with the storyteller in Origins seems to point to a culture that is more oral storytelling when it comes to history than writing down firsthand accounts. 

The Dalish tell stories about their history and have written accounts about their gods, their history, and their lore. Even WoT has Gisharel has an author. Merrill even researched lore on the Eluvian when she was constructing an Eluvian - it's not as though the Dalish only have oral history.

There is more than the Chantry source, of course. But there's also more than the elven source. It is amazing how Dalish supporters gloss over the Chantry source in favor of the Dalish source as well.

But the Dalish do have oral history and oral history is easily malleable. Witch Hunt also implies that books are rather rare among the Dalish. This, in conjunction with the storyteller's occupation to recite history from memory, points to oral history being more prevalent, though there are admittedly asome tomes.

[LobselVith8]

Br3ad wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Lobs you keep pointing out that the Dalish Warden can say the Chantry was sorely at fault like it means something while ignoring that the Warden even Elven Wardens can also state the Dalish shared the blame for what happened.

Those Warden's are obviously indoctrinated and evil, even if they lived solely among the Dalish. The Chantry got to them in the few months between the Origin and Ostagar. Obviously. 

Since you seem to have missed the actual discussion, I was pointing out that there's more than simply the Chantry version to the fall of the Dales. To the severe irritation of some pro-Chantry posters, it seems.

[Shadow Fox]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Lobs you keep pointing out that the Dalish Warden can say the Chantry was sorely at fault like it means something while ignoring that the Warden even Elven Wardens can also state the Dalish shared the blame for what happened.

You don't seem to have even read my posts. I pointed out that the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert. Despite the attempts by some pro-Chantry posters to act as though only the Chantry version exists, that simply isn't true.

And I've pointed out they can agree with it.

[cjones91]

Br3ad wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Lobs you keep pointing out that the Dalish Warden can say the Chantry was sorely at fault like it means something while ignoring that the Warden even Elven Wardens can also state the Dalish shared the blame for what happened.

You don't seem to have even read my posts. I pointed out that the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert. Despite the attempts by some pro-Chantry posters to act as though only the Chantry version exists, that simply isn't true.

I hate the Chantry, and even I believe them over "Big scary humans." 

Even though the Chantry has just as much of a reason to color the events of the Dales like most people accuse the Dalish of doing?

[addiction21]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Dalish aren't the only Elves;)

#CityElf4life<3

Some believe the only true elf is a Dalish elf... including the Dalish.

[Br3admax]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Lobs you keep pointing out that the Dalish Warden can say the Chantry was sorely at fault like it means something while ignoring that the Warden even Elven Wardens can also state the Dalish shared the blame for what happened.

Those Warden's are obviously indoctrinated and evil, even if they lived solely among the Dalish. The Chantry got to them in the few months between the Origin and Ostagar. Obviously. 

Since you seem to have missed the actual discussion, I was pointing out that there's more than simply the Chantry version to the fall of the Dales. To the severe irritation of some pro-Chantry posters, it seems.

No, we all see it, we just don't believe it. The point. 

[Br3admax]

cjones91 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Lobs you keep pointing out that the Dalish Warden can say the Chantry was sorely at fault like it means something while ignoring that the Warden even Elven Wardens can also state the Dalish shared the blame for what happened.

You don't seem to have even read my posts. I pointed out that the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert. Despite the attempts by some pro-Chantry posters to act as though only the Chantry version exists, that simply isn't true.

I hate the Chantry, and even I believe them over "Big scary humans." 

Even though the Chantry has just as much of a reason to color the events of the Dales like most people accuse the Dalish of doing?

Logically there is some truth to both, but no one just attacked the elves just 'cause. 

[LobselVith8]

almostinsane99 wrote...

There is more than the Chantry source, of course. But there's also more than the elven source. It is amazing how Dalish supporters gloss over the Chantry source in favor of the Dalish source as well.

Thinking one is more truthful than the other doesn't mean they gloss over it.

almostinsane99 wrote...

But the Dalish do have oral history and oral history is easily malleable. Witch Hunt also implies that books are rather rare among the Dalish. This, in conjunction with the storyteller's occupation to recite history from memory, points to oral history being more prevalent, though there are admittedly asome tomes.

Ariane doesn't say books are rare; she said the Circle stole some of their history, implying they played a role in the fall of the Dales. And a storyteller sharing history orally to a nomadic tribe that is almost constantly on the move doesn't mean literature is a rarity.

[cjones91]

Br3ad wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Lobs you keep pointing out that the Dalish Warden can say the Chantry was sorely at fault like it means something while ignoring that the Warden even Elven Wardens can also state the Dalish shared the blame for what happened.

You don't seem to have even read my posts. I pointed out that the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert. Despite the attempts by some pro-Chantry posters to act as though only the Chantry version exists, that simply isn't true.

I hate the Chantry, and even I believe them over "Big scary humans." 

Even though the Chantry has just as much of a reason to color the events of the Dales like most people accuse the Dalish of doing?

Logically there is some truth to both, but no one just attacked the elves just 'cause. 

True,but I don't think a nation that simply wanted to be left alone would attack a neighboring city without provocation.

[LobselVith8]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You don't seem to have even read my posts. I pointed out that the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert. Despite the attempts by some pro-Chantry posters to act as though only the Chantry version exists, that simply isn't true.

And I've pointed out they can agree with it. 

With the Chantry version? They have a different history of the event. Since I was addressing that the Dalish version exists, despite the attempt by some to pretend as though it doesn't, your retort has absolutely nothing to do with what I was discussing.

[Shadow Fox]

addiction21 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Dalish aren't the only Elves;)

#CityElf4life<3

Some believe the only true elf is a Dalish elf... including the Dalish.

Hence why my mage set them on fire and put them on ice.

[Senya]

I don't dispute the Dalish have their own version. I just find it suspect. And literature for a nomadic tribe is usually a rarity given real life parallels.

[cjones91]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Dalish aren't the only Elves;)

#CityElf4life<3

Some believe the only true elf is a Dalish elf... including the Dalish.

Hence why my mage set them on fire and put them on ice.

I prefer roasting my enemies with fire and lightning myself.

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Dalish aren't the only Elves;)

#CityElf4life<3

Some believe the only true elf is a Dalish elf... including the Dalish.

Hence why my mage set them on fire and put them on ice.

I prefer roasting my enemies with fire and lightning myself.

Blood Wound ftw 

[cjones91]

almostinsane99 wrote...

I don't dispute the Dalish have their own version. I just find it suspect. And literature for a nomadic tribe is usually a rarity given real life parallels.

If you find the Dalish version suspect then you must also give the same amount of skeptism to the Chantry version as well.

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Dalish aren't the only Elves;)

#CityElf4life<3

Some believe the only true elf is a Dalish elf... including the Dalish.

Hence why my mage set them on fire and put them on ice.

I prefer roasting my enemies with fire and lightning myself.

Blood Wound ftw 

Blood Wound and Inferno+Tempest ftw.

[Thrillian]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Thrillho_82 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Lobs you keep pointing out that the Dalish Warden can say the Chantry was sorely at fault like it means something while ignoring that the Warden even Elven Wardens can also state the Dalish shared the blame for what happened.

Yes, I very recently played the Dalish origin (after having played it years ago) and noticed that the character can state that the war did not go entirely according to (name esapes me, the storyteller elf).  Honestly, perhaps if I had played through the Dalish elf's origin before any other, I would feel more of a kinship and sympathy toward them, but I did not.  I initially played through as a human and found the Dalish to be unecessarily antagonistic towards my character.  Understandably this could be because of my characters ignorance to the history between the Dalish and humans, but I still felt them hostile beyond degree. 

Even during the Dalish origin you are offered the opportunity to slaughter some humans without any player knowledge of the history between elves and humans.

Anyhow, I can honestly say that while I did initially feel some empathy for the Elven point of view, I am sad to say that after becoming a member of the BSN and reading of many of the militant views of the Dalish supporters, my view has been soured and I feel less for them than originally.

Dalish aren't the only Elves;)

#CityElf4life<3

You are right and I greatly enjoyed the City Elf origin and felt it portrayed the inhumane conditions they are subjected to much better than the Dalish origin.  If anything I feel much more compassion toward the city elf than the smug, superior Dalish elf.  Just my opinion though

[LobselVith8]

eluvianix wrote...

Blood Wound ftw 

My Surana Warden and apostate Hawke were blood mages; it certainly came in handy with the Champion to deal with mobs, and use demonology to control spirits (like the shades summoned by Corypheus). I'm curious what new types of specializations might arise, especially given the Dalish avoiding magic that involves spirits.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Some believe the only true elf is a Dalish elf... including the Dalish.

Hence why my mage set them on fire and put them on ice.

I prefer roasting my enemies with fire and lightning myself.

Blood Wound ftw 

I found it slightly ironic to shoot them full of arrows.

[Shadow Fox]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You don't seem to have even read my posts. I pointed out that the elven Warden can condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert. Despite the attempts by some pro-Chantry posters to act as though only the Chantry version exists, that simply isn't true.

And I've pointed out they can agree with it. 

With the Chantry version? They have a different history of the event. Since I was addressing that the Dalish version exists, despite the attempt by some to pretend as though it doesn't, your retort has absolutely nothing to do with what I was discussing.

It does since you implied authority on the subject to a Dalish Warden by implying that him/her agreeing with the Dalish version validates it and invalidates the other version instead of treating it like an opinion.

And they don't dismiss the Dalish version from what I've seen simply doubt it's validity since it conveniently paints the Dalish as blameless victims of human aggression.

[Hellion Rex]

LobselVith8 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Blood Wound ftw 

My Surana Warden and apostate Hawke were blood mages; it certainly came in handy with the Champion to deal with mobs, and use demonology to control spirits (like the shades summoned by Corypheus). I'm curious what new types of specializations might arise, especially given the Dalish avoiding magic that involves spirits.

Did the Dalish mages have any real claim to fame beside the whole Keeper thing? I wonder what type of magic elves of Arlathan could perform...

[Xilizhra]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And if that's all that's morally necessary, we'll grind Orlais into the dirt and call it justified.

As I said, the elves are free to do so, but it'd only make them hypocrites.

So you're saying there's no moral option other than sucking up to thieves and usurpers?

Well, there's slowing dying out into obscruity. Commiting suicide via military campaign. Or leaving the entire continent to find new land.

Those really are all your alternatives.

Why not carve out a niche while the Veil tear bleeds the enemy dry?

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And if that's all that's morally necessary, we'll grind Orlais into the dirt and call it justified.

As I said, the elves are free to do so, but it'd only make them hypocrites.

So you're saying there's no moral option other than sucking up to thieves and usurpers?

Well, there's slowing dying out into obscruity. Commiting suicide via military campaign. Or leaving the entire continent to find new land.

Those really are all your alternatives.

Why not carve out a niche while the Veil tear bleeds the enemy dry?

I highly doubt anyone would just let that occur, no matter how much the Veil is screwing everyone else over. And the Dalish cannot afford to fight a military campaign.