2497 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

That was already answered a couple of pages ago.

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Dalish aren't the only Elves;)

#CityElf4life<3

Some believe the only true elf is a Dalish elf... including the Dalish.

Hence why my mage set them on fire and put them on ice.

I prefer roasting my enemies with fire and lightning myself.

Blood Wound ftw 

Blood Wound and Inferno+Tempest ftw.

Ice>fire>all:whistle:

[LobselVith8]

eluvianix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

My Surana Warden and apostate Hawke were blood mages; it certainly came in handy with the Champion to deal with mobs, and use demonology to control spirits (like the shades summoned by Corypheus). I'm curious what new types of specializations might arise, especially given the Dalish avoiding magic that involves spirits.

Did the Dalish mages have any real claim to fame beside the whole Keeper thing? I wonder what type of magic elves of Arlathan could perform...

Dalish magic seems to have adapted to nature, given their years as nomads, and focuses heavily on healing and herbalism. The Dalish Warden can mention there are mages who shapeshift in the clan, like her.

[Xilizhra]

I highly doubt anyone would just let that occur, no matter how much the Veil is screwing everyone else over. And the Dalish cannot afford to fight a military campaign.

That's why the best land is land that no one has anymore. Or perhaps they can win it by taking it from the Red Templars or the like.

[DPSSOC]

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
And if that's all that's morally necessary, we'll grind Orlais into the dirt and call it justified.

As I said, the elves are free to do so, but it'd only make them hypocrites.

So you're saying there's no moral option other than sucking up to thieves and usurpers?

Well, there's slowing dying out into obscruity. Commiting suicide via military campaign. Or leaving the entire continent to find new land.

Those really are all your alternatives.

Why not carve out a niche while the Veil tear bleeds the enemy dry?

Well you specifically asked for moral options and murdering men, women, and children; or even driving them from their homes, who've done absolutely nothing to you, or any of your people in living memory, just so you can stand on a patch of grass and declare "MINE!" doesn't really qualify.

Now it's an option certainly, but it's a hypocritical and morally questionable option.  Oh there is another option, offer to help the Orlesians in return for getting the Dales back.  Wait a while, let them get desperate, and then come in to offer assistance for just that little, inconsequential really, piece of land they kinda dickishly took from your people 700 years ago.  Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

[Br3admax]

LobselVith8 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

My Surana Warden and apostate Hawke were blood mages; it certainly came in handy with the Champion to deal with mobs, and use demonology to control spirits (like the shades summoned by Corypheus). I'm curious what new types of specializations might arise, especially given the Dalish avoiding magic that involves spirits.

Did the Dalish mages have any real claim to fame beside the whole Keeper thing? I wonder what type of magic elves of Arlathan could perform...

Dalish magic seems to have adapted to nature, given their years as nomads, and focuses heavily on healing and herbalism. The Dalish Warden can mention there are mages who shapeshift in the clan, like her.

Keepers and their firsts are the only mages to a clan, so they won't have that much "fame." 

[LobselVith8]

DPSSOC wrote...

Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

[Xilizhra]

Well you specifically asked for moral options and murdering men, women, and children; or even driving them from their homes, who've done absolutely nothing to you, or any of your people in living memory, just so you can stand on a patch of grass and declare "MINE!" doesn't really qualify.

You'll notice that I never advocated that. I only wanted political control of the Dales to return to the Dalish, I hadn't stipulated that all humans be forced out.

Now it's an option certainly, but it's a hypocritical and morally questionable option. Oh there is another option, offer to help the Orlesians in return for getting the Dales back. Wait a while, let them get desperate, and then come in to offer assistance for just that little, inconsequential really, piece of land they kinda dickishly took from your people 700 years ago. Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

I'd rather ensure that Orlais can never hurt anyone again, but this might work. Assuming that I have any pull as Inquisitor to do so.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Br3ad wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

My Surana Warden and apostate Hawke were blood mages; it certainly came in handy with the Champion to deal with mobs, and use demonology to control spirits (like the shades summoned by Corypheus). I'm curious what new types of specializations might arise, especially given the Dalish avoiding magic that involves spirits.

Did the Dalish mages have any real claim to fame beside the whole Keeper thing? I wonder what type of magic elves of Arlathan could perform...

Dalish magic seems to have adapted to nature, given their years as nomads, and focuses heavily on healing and herbalism. The Dalish Warden can mention there are mages who shapeshift in the clan, like her.

Keepers and their firsts are the only mages to a clan, so they won't have that much "fame." 

I don't believe its ever said that the Keeper and First are the only mages in the clan. Just that they're the important ones. Besides, the Halla keeper in Zathrian's clan was a mage.

Then again, it is eventually made clear that there's at most one shapechanger in the DE Warden's clan. (Are you sure the line is that specific? I remember it mentioning only the Dalish as a whole, which is more plausible.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 19 octobre 2013 - 01:58 .

[Xilizhra]

I don't believe its ever said that the Keeper and First are the only mages in the clan. Just that they're the important ones. Besides, the Halla keeper in Zathrian's clan was a mage.

In addition to Aneirin, and note that Lanaya had to beat other elves in a trial to become First. Dalish clans will fob off spare mages to clans that don't have a First, but they're not restricted to only two.

[LobselVith8]

Br3ad wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dalish magic seems to have adapted to nature, given their years as nomads, and focuses heavily on healing and herbalism. The Dalish Warden can mention there are mages who shapeshift in the clan, like her.

Keepers and their firsts are the only mages to a clan, so they won't have that much "fame." 

We see that isn't the case with the clans: Elora and Aneirin were in Zathrian's clan; Lanaya contended with several others for the position of First; and an unnamed elven mage from the Circle of Magi found refugee with Ariane's clan.

[Br3admax]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

My Surana Warden and apostate Hawke were blood mages; it certainly came in handy with the Champion to deal with mobs, and use demonology to control spirits (like the shades summoned by Corypheus). I'm curious what new types of specializations might arise, especially given the Dalish avoiding magic that involves spirits.

Did the Dalish mages have any real claim to fame beside the whole Keeper thing? I wonder what type of magic elves of Arlathan could perform...

Dalish magic seems to have adapted to nature, given their years as nomads, and focuses heavily on healing and herbalism. The Dalish Warden can mention there are mages who shapeshift in the clan, like her.

Keepers and their firsts are the only mages to a clan, so they won't have that much "fame." 

I don't believe its ever said that the Keeper and First are the only mages in the clan. Just that they're the important ones. Besides, the Halla keeper in Zathrian's clan was a mage.

Then again, it is eventually made clear that there's at most one shapechanger in the DE Warden's clan. (Are you sure the line is that specific? I remember it mentioning only the Dalish as a whole, which is more plausible.)

I think I got it from Merrill in DA ][. She had to leave her original clan or something becuase hers already had a first and another needed one. Either way, it can't be that many. At least not in the long run. 

[cjones91]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

And people wonder why elves are suspicious of humans.Too be honest you reap what you sow and if treating a race like crap for centuries was a crime then a lot of humans in Thedas would be guilty as sin.

[DPSSOC]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

No, but the Dalish don't have anything the Andrastians want, far as they know.  Civility is all about providing the right incentive, what can I get from being nice to you that I couldn't get quicker and easier from stabbing you in the face?

[DPSSOC]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well you specifically asked for moral options and murdering men, women, and children; or even driving them from their homes, who've done absolutely nothing to you, or any of your people in living memory, just so you can stand on a patch of grass and declare "MINE!" doesn't really qualify.

You'll notice that I never advocated that. I only wanted political control of the Dales to return to the Dalish, I hadn't stipulated that all humans be forced out.

The Dalish would, you know they would, suggesting anything else is just being dishonest.  It's like putting snakes in a pen with rabbits and saying you didn't advocate the snakes killing all the rabbits.

cjones91 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

And people wonder why elves are suspicious of humans.Too be honest you reap what you sow and if treating a race like crap for centuries was a crime then a lot of humans in Thedas would be guilty as sin.

Pot meet Kettle.  Kettle, Pot.

[LobselVith8]

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

No, but the Dalish don't have anything the Andrastians want, far as they know.  Civility is all about providing the right incentive, what can I get from being nice to you that I couldn't get quicker and easier from stabbing you in the face?

Capitulating to humanity isn't a route I'm interested in seeing for the People. A Dalish Inquisitor using the organization to help the Elvhen while dealing with the veil tears interests me more.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 19 octobre 2013 - 02:15 .

[cjones91]

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

No, but the Dalish don't have anything the Andrastians want, far as they know.  Civility is all about providing the right incentive, what can I get from being nice to you that I couldn't get quicker and easier from stabbing you in the face?

The last time the elves tried being civil it ended with a arl's son kidnapping several elven women so that he and his friends could rape them.

[cjones91]

DPSSOC wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well you specifically asked for moral options and murdering men, women, and children; or even driving them from their homes, who've done absolutely nothing to you, or any of your people in living memory, just so you can stand on a patch of grass and declare "MINE!" doesn't really qualify.

You'll notice that I never advocated that. I only wanted political control of the Dales to return to the Dalish, I hadn't stipulated that all humans be forced out.

The Dalish would, you know they would, suggesting anything else is just being dishonest.  It's like putting snakes in a pen with rabbits and saying you didn't advocate the snakes killing all the rabbits.

cjones91 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

And people wonder why elves are suspicious of humans.Too be honest you reap what you sow and if treating a race like crap for centuries was a crime then a lot of humans in Thedas would be guilty as sin.

Pot meet Kettle.  Kettle, Pot.

Funny because I'm not really on one side or another.If the humans were treated like the elves were then I would be taking the same position right now.

Modifié par cjones91, 19 octobre 2013 - 02:12 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

No, but the Dalish don't have anything the Andrastians want, far as they know.  Civility is all about providing the right incentive, what can I get from being nice to you that I couldn't get quicker and easier from stabbing you in the face?

The last time the elves tried being civil it ended with a arl's son kidnapping several elven women so that he and his friends could rape them.

I'm fairly certain he got hit over the head with an unbroken bottle. That broke in the process. He fully deserved it, but the fact remains that that isn't civil.

[Xilizhra]

The Dalish would, you know they would, suggesting anything else is just being dishonest. It's like putting snakes in a pen with rabbits and saying you didn't advocate the snakes killing all the rabbits.

I can only act within my mandate as Inquisitor. I mean, if it ends as some kind of queen of the Dales, I'll be perfectly happy to do that. Also, comparing sapient beings to nonsapient ones will never be a good analogy.

I'm fairly certain he got hit over the head with an unbroken bottle.
That broke in the process. He fully deserved it, but the fact remains
that that isn't civil.

Actually, he had that intent the first time he showed up, he was just forced to retreat (when the elves being civil failed). The bottle thing didn't make anything worse.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 19 octobre 2013 - 02:13 .

[cjones91]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

No, but the Dalish don't have anything the Andrastians want, far as they know.  Civility is all about providing the right incentive, what can I get from being nice to you that I couldn't get quicker and easier from stabbing you in the face?

The last time the elves tried being civil it ended with a arl's son kidnapping several elven women so that he and his friends could rape them.

I'm fairly certain he got hit over the head with an unbroken bottle. That broke in the process. He fully deserved it, but the fact remains that that isn't civil.

But even after that the elves tried to be civil until Vaugh and his goons crashed the wedding and kidnapped the women there.

[DPSSOC]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

No, but the Dalish don't have anything the Andrastians want, far as they know.  Civility is all about providing the right incentive, what can I get from being nice to you that I couldn't get quicker and easier from stabbing you in the face?

Capitulating to humanity isn't a route I'm interested in seeing for the People. A Dalish Inquisitor using the organization to help the Dalish while dealing with the veil tears interests me more.

Very well, enjoy your continued cycle of violence, oppression, and death.

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
No, but the Dalish don't have anything the Andrastians want, far as they know.  Civility is all about providing the right incentive, what can I get from being nice to you that I couldn't get quicker and easier from stabbing you in the face?

The last time the elves tried being civil it ended with a arl's son kidnapping several elven women so that he and his friends could rape them.

#1 - I was referring specifically to the Dalish Elves
#2 - The bold, the Elves need to find an incentive, something they can offer that humans can't just take, at least not as easily.

[Br3admax]

There won't be cycles of anything. If the elves had continued to do anything like that on a large scale, they would be extinct right now.

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

No, but the Dalish don't have anything the Andrastians want, far as they know.  Civility is all about providing the right incentive, what can I get from being nice to you that I couldn't get quicker and easier from stabbing you in the face?

The last time the elves tried being civil it ended with a arl's son kidnapping several elven women so that he and his friends could rape them.

Well the Circle,Redcliffe,Lothering and supposedly Highever treat them well enough from what I've seen/heard.

[addiction21]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Of course that's not an option the Dalish would ever take because it would require them to actually attempt civility with non-elves, and that just insane.

Because Andrastian humans treat elves - especially heathens - with civility?

Because the Dalish treat non-Dalish with such civility....  Wardens and Hawkes as exceptions because plot armor.