2497 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

addiction21 wrote...

Only at the word of a human that had been shown to be usefull and sent there by Flemeth

But tell me again why its okay for your chosen groups to murder as they feel like and not okay for anyone else? 

Feynriel went to the Sabrae clan without Hawke; Marethari didn't permit him to stay with them at Hawke's demand. Like your other retorts, it basically handwaves that not all the Dalish are the same, and that there are examples of Dalish who accept non-Dalish.

Last but not least, I condemn Dalish characters who cross the line, like Marethari, and the Dalish hunters who attempt to murder Merrill and Hawke.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Just out of curiosity, are there examples of Dalish that you condemn who's victims aren't other Dalish you like better?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 octobre 2013 - 03:15 .

[LobselVith8]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Some elves face racism in the Circle of Magi, as the protagonist can explain to Duncan; there's only one elf (an outsider) in Redcliffe, and there's some surprise at an elven Warden in the village; and elves live in outhouses and barns in Lothering.

And the Warden can be confused at the notion that being an elf would cause difficulties in the Circle so that's a varible and we have an elf and human chatting like friends about Jowan in the Origin and atleast 2 Elven First Enchanters,There's surprise at a Dwarven and Mage Warden too,really? 

Which isn't the case for Eadric, since he still feels the loom of human racism towards elves despite living in the Circle of Ferelden. I think the source of those views could be the templars, who likely wouldn't have the kinship held by the mages as fellow outsiders.

[Xilizhra]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Just out of curiosity, are there any Dalish that you condemn who's victims aren't other Dalish you like better?

Given that Zathrian holding out on the curse was infecting other Dalish, I don't think that this could apply to anyone at all. There just aren't many Dalish villains.

[Shadow Fox]

Xilizhra wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Just out of curiosity, are there any Dalish that you condemn who's victims aren't other Dalish you like better?

Given that Zathrian holding out on the curse was infecting other Dalish, I don't think that this could apply to anyone at all. There just aren't many Dalish villains.

Velanna:whistle:

[LobselVith8]

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

If it leads to an independent Dales where the People can have their culture and religious freedom, I think it'll be worth the trials and tribulations for a Dalish Inquisitor.

[facepalm] My point is that let's say you do get an independent Dales, it won't last, over time resentment will build in those people forced to relocate to accommodate it, or the Dalish attitude will start to grate again, and eventually they'll be back and it'll all start over again.

The existence of the Inquisition could change that with a Dalish Inquisitor at the helm.

DPSSOC wrote...

Like I said if the Dalish want humans to be civil they're going to have to find an incentive.  Something that makes being nice to them more beneficial than just attacking them and taking it. 

I doubt that will be possible when Andrastians will want the Dalish to convert, and that isn't likely to transpire.

[Xilizhra]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Just out of curiosity, are there any Dalish that you condemn who's victims aren't other Dalish you like better?

Given that Zathrian holding out on the curse was infecting other Dalish, I don't think that this could apply to anyone at all. There just aren't many Dalish villains.

Velanna:whistle:

Easily redeemable, so there's no real point in condemning.

[Shadow Fox]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Some elves face racism in the Circle of Magi, as the protagonist can explain to Duncan; there's only one elf (an outsider) in Redcliffe, and there's some surprise at an elven Warden in the village; and elves live in outhouses and barns in Lothering.

And the Warden can be confused at the notion that being an elf would cause difficulties in the Circle so that's a varible and we have an elf and human chatting like friends about Jowan in the Origin and atleast 2 Elven First Enchanters,There's surprise at a Dwarven and Mage Warden too,really? 

Which isn't the case for Eadric, since he still feels the loom of human racism towards elves despite living in the Circle of Ferelden. I think the source of those views could be the templars, who likely wouldn't have the kinship held by the mages as fellow outsiders.

Wasn't his main problem that Wynne was a massive **** to him?

[LobselVith8]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Just out of curiosity, are there examples of Dalish that you condemn who's victims aren't other Dalish you like better?

Hawke isn't Dalish. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Merrill is.

[cjones91]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Some elves face racism in the Circle of Magi, as the protagonist can explain to Duncan; there's only one elf (an outsider) in Redcliffe, and there's some surprise at an elven Warden in the village; and elves live in outhouses and barns in Lothering.

And the Warden can be confused at the notion that being an elf would cause difficulties in the Circle so that's a varible and we have an elf and human chatting like friends about Jowan in the Origin and atleast 2 Elven First Enchanters,There's surprise at a Dwarven and Mage Warden too,really? 

Which isn't the case for Eadric, since he still feels the loom of human racism towards elves despite living in the Circle of Ferelden. I think the source of those views could be the templars, who likely wouldn't have the kinship held by the mages as fellow outsiders.

Wasn't his main problem that Wynne was a massive **** to him?

I believe that was Anerin.

[Shadow Fox]

Xilizhra wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Just out of curiosity, are there any Dalish that you condemn who's victims aren't other Dalish you like better?

Given that Zathrian holding out on the curse was infecting other Dalish, I don't think that this could apply to anyone at all. There just aren't many Dalish villains.

Velanna:whistle:

Easily redeemable, so there's no real point in condemning.

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderer but because she saved a Keep or City she's redeemed?

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 19 octobre 2013 - 03:31 .

[Xilizhra]

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderour but because she saved a Keep or City she' redeemed?

If you stop being evil, that's more or less how it works, yes.

[Shadow Fox]

Xilizhra wrote...

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderour but because she saved a Keep or City she' redeemed?

If you stop being evil, that's more or less how it works, yes.

So if Vaughen saved Denerim he'd be redeemed?

[Xilizhra]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderour but because she saved a Keep or City she' redeemed?

If you stop being evil, that's more or less how it works, yes.

So if Vaughen saved Denerim he'd be redeemed?

Have him personally save the Alienage in battle and that might be some decent evidence, depending on circumstance.

[LobselVith8]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Easily redeemable, so there's no real point in condemning.

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderer but because she saved a Keep or City she' redeemed?

Velanna's attitude and perceptions change, including her view on humans (although she seems to have a positive view on Andraste already), and she certainly seems remorseful during her vulnerable moments.

[Shadow Fox]

Xilizhra wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderour but because she saved a Keep or City she' redeemed?

If you stop being evil, that's more or less how it works, yes.

So if Vaughen saved Denerim he'd be redeemed?

Have him personally save the Alienage in battle and that might be some decent evidence, depending on circumstance.

So basically all you have to do is save some people and you're redeemed even without remorse or regret for what you did or repentance?

[Xilizhra]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderour but because she saved a Keep or City she' redeemed?

If you stop being evil, that's more or less how it works, yes.

So if Vaughen saved Denerim he'd be redeemed?

Have him personally save the Alienage in battle and that might be some decent evidence, depending on circumstance.

So basically all you have to do is save some people and you're redeemed even without remorse or regret for what you did or repentance?

The point being that Velanna stopped hating humans so much and hence saved them. It's a sign of character evolution.

[LobselVith8]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderour but because she saved a Keep or City she' redeemed?

If you stop being evil, that's more or less how it works, yes.

So if Vaughen saved Denerim he'd be redeemed?

If Zevran and Loghain find redemption with The Warden, why not Velanna?

[addiction21]

Xilizhra wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderour but because she saved a Keep or City she' redeemed?

If you stop being evil, that's more or less how it works, yes.

So if Vaughen saved Denerim he'd be redeemed?

Have him personally save the Alienage in battle and that might be some decent evidence, depending on circumstance.

So basically all you have to do is save some people and you're redeemed even without remorse or regret for what you did or repentance?

The point being that Velanna stopped hating humans so much and hence saved them. It's a sign of character evolution.

And this is all meaningless because of PC intervention she can just as easily continue on that murderous path without it.

WHO she was at the start came from the culture she was raised in which is just as racist and bigoted as the humans.

[addiction21]

Ummmm because its not redemption at the hand of our characters but the cultures they come from are the source of the problems?

[Xilizhra]

And this is all meaningless because of PC intervention she can just as easily continue on that murderous path without it.

WHO she was at the start came from the culture she was raised in which is just as racist and bigoted as the humans.

The same culture that exiled her for it, you mean?

[Shadow Fox]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Uh so basically she can be a remorseless,racist murderour but because she saved a Keep or City she' redeemed?

If you stop being evil, that's more or less how it works, yes.

So if Vaughen saved Denerim he'd be redeemed?

If Zevran and Loghain find redemption with The Warden, why not Velanna?

Well I uh never recruite those guys for the same reason I roast Velanna when I see her.

[dragonflight288]

Wow...I'm nearly ten pages behind.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but this is about the Dalish now? Could someone catch me up to speed here? I've tried reading through it all, but got fed up of posts constantly taken out of context and skipped to the end.

[Shadow Fox]

Xilizhra wrote...

And this is all meaningless because of PC intervention she can just as easily continue on that murderous path without it.

WHO she was at the start came from the culture she was raised in which is just as racist and bigoted as the humans.

The same culture that exiled her for it, you mean?

While I agree that the Dalish can't be blamed for what she did didn't they kick her out because they knew the humans would want revenge for her murders not of a sense of morality?

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 19 octobre 2013 - 03:58 .