986 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexMBrennan]

I bet Ali Hillis gets paid twice as much as both of them

Source, because otherwise your argument collapses.

[AlexMBrennan]

Well, and I'd bet that having two VAs record two versions of the same scene will cost more than one VA you happen to like (for other staff needed to record and process lines, extra code complexity, extra material to be included on disks, etc). Now what?

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 06 octobre 2013 - 04:54 .

[Baihu1983]

Get rid of Sheen and you just saved a lot of money.........

[Mathias]

Barquiel wrote...

Even if we ignore the fact that Ashley and Kaidan are by far the least popular squadmates...they have always been screwed since they became the Virmire Survivor. One can't waste too many resources on an occurrence or character that may not even show up in a great many people's game. The VS is essentially one character (story-wise) that requires two voice actors. That's the problem with mutually exclusive party members, they usually don't have much content (just look at Carver/Bethany, they're also gone for most of the game). The only exception I can think of is the Mira/Hanharr thing in Kotor2. They both had a lot of content...probably because Hanharr only makes Wookie noises and didn't need much voice acting.

Really? Where did you get those statistics?

[Baihu1983]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Even if we ignore the fact that Ashley and Kaidan are by far the least popular squadmates...they have always been screwed since they became the Virmire Survivor. One can't waste too many resources on an occurrence or character that may not even show up in a great many people's game. The VS is essentially one character (story-wise) that requires two voice actors. That's the problem with mutually exclusive party members, they usually don't have much content (just look at Carver/Bethany, they're also gone for most of the game). The only exception I can think of is the Mira/Hanharr thing in Kotor2. They both had a lot of content...probably because Hanharr only makes Wookie noises and didn't need much voice acting.

Really? Where did you get those statistics?

Same place space magic comes from.

Kaidan was not very popular in ME1 but I have to give credit to Bioware for turning him around for 3.

[PMC65]

Baihu1983 wrote...

The VS should have been apart of Arrival [which was a massive disappointment for what it was]

Nice 4-6 hour story that could have been used to get most of the issues between them out the way rather than slowing down 3 with it.
Could have also lead to the finding of the crucibal rather than them just finding it in 3 and building it within a short time.

That's what I was hoping for, as well.

The VS should have been in Arrival where Shepard and Ash/Kaidan could work through their issues ... or not. It would have made me see that DLC in a different light. A missed opportunity in my opinion. Oh, well.

[Barquiel]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Even if we ignore the fact that Ashley and Kaidan are by far the least popular squadmates...they have always been screwed since they became the Virmire Survivor. One can't waste too many resources on an occurrence or character that may not even show up in a great many people's game. The VS is essentially one character (story-wise) that requires two voice actors. That's the problem with mutually exclusive party members, they usually don't have much content (just look at Carver/Bethany, they're also gone for most of the game). The only exception I can think of is the Mira/Hanharr thing in Kotor2. They both had a lot of content...probably because Hanharr only makes Wookie noises and didn't need much voice acting.

Really? Where did you get those statistics?

Bioware's Mass Effect PAX East infographic/statistics
Several unofficial polls/surveys

Modifié par Barquiel, 06 octobre 2013 - 06:06 .

[Mathias]

Barquiel wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Even if we ignore the fact that Ashley and Kaidan are by far the least popular squadmates...they have always been screwed since they became the Virmire Survivor. One can't waste too many resources on an occurrence or character that may not even show up in a great many people's game. The VS is essentially one character (story-wise) that requires two voice actors. That's the problem with mutually exclusive party members, they usually don't have much content (just look at Carver/Bethany, they're also gone for most of the game). The only exception I can think of is the Mira/Hanharr thing in Kotor2. They both had a lot of content...probably because Hanharr only makes Wookie noises and didn't need much voice acting.

Really? Where did you get those statistics?

Bioware's Mass Effect PAX East infographic/statistics
Several unofficial polls/surveys

Looks like you were referring to ME3, I thought you were talking about the Trilogy as a whole, in which case I'm pretty sure Jacob wins that title.

But I don't think the infographic is the best source to use, even if it is an official survey done by Bioware. We all know Tali's got a pretty high popularity and according to the Infographic she's slightly above Ashley and lower than Edi and James. It looks like the infographic based this on how often these characters were picked, and in the case the VS and Tali can't be acquired til the 2nd half of the game.

[Baihu1983]

Jacob was dire and I actually feel sorry for anyone who liked him enough to romance him cause they got burned.

[Sir DeLoria]

Barquiel wrote...

Bioware's Mass Effect PAX East infographic/statistics
Several unofficial polls/surveys

BW's statistics say nothing. First of all, like Mdoggy said, these stats are based on how often a character was picked for missions, not on how popular they are. Secondly, they're based on individual playthroughs, not players. 

Polls might actually indicate something, but they generally have a much too small audience.

[DuskWanderer]

Necanor wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Bioware's Mass Effect PAX East infographic/statistics
Several unofficial polls/surveys

BW's statistics say nothing. First of all, like Mdoggy said, these stats are based on how often a character was picked for missions, not on how popular they are. Secondly, they're based on individual playthroughs, not players. 

Polls might actually indicate something, but they generally have a much too small audience.

+1 

This. BW's polls are how often a character is chosen, not if they are liked or not. Naturally Liara gets the most results in those polls: Liara's required for four missions, the VS is only required for Mars, and you don't get the choice of characters in that mission. 

As for polls, unless they are spread out, sample sizes are too small, margins of error too great. 

Further, 64% of people didn't get Wrex on a playthrough, but the Citadel DLC was still chock-full of him. Not that I thought Wrex was a positive feature of that, but it was a selling point on their press releases. 

[Barquiel]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Looks like you were referring to ME3, I thought you were talking about the Trilogy as a whole, in which case I'm pretty sure Jacob wins that title.

But I don't think the infographic is the best source to use, even if it is an official survey done by Bioware. We all know Tali's got a pretty high popularity and according to the Infographic she's slightly above Ashley and lower than Edi and James. It looks like the infographic based this on how often these characters were picked, and in the case the VS and Tali can't be acquired til the 2nd half of the game.

I agree, Jacob probably wins the title if we are talking about the whole triology...but at least he had the highest survival rate in the Suicide Mission out of all squadmates

The infographic is, of course, not 100% accurate, but most unofficial surveys (the Mass Effect universe survey with over 17,000 participants was the the most comprehensive and largest sample size we had before Bioware released the PAX statistics) had very similar results when it came to the question of squadmate popularity. It's almost always Liara/Garrus > Tali/James/EDI > Ashley > Kaidan. I mean...even Casey Hudson said there's not a lot of love out there for Kaidan. Party members are some of the most resource-intensive features of a game. Ashley and Kaidan are two mutually exclusive characters with two voice actors, both of which are dead for some and alive for others...and they're not exactly fan favorites. I think it was a bit unrealistic to expect that they would get more content than Liara or Garrus.

Modifié par Barquiel, 06 octobre 2013 - 09:24 .

[KaiserShep]

Baihu1983 wrote...

Get rid of Sheen and you just saved a lot of money.........

NEVER

[Hazegurl]

Barquiel wrote...

I agree, Jacob probably wins the title if we are talking about the whole triology...but at least he had the highest survival rate in the Suicide Mission out of all squadmates

The infographic is, of course, not 100% accurate, but most unofficial surveys (the Mass Effect universe survey with over 17,000 participants was the the most comprehensive and largest sample size we had before Bioware released the PAX statistics) had very similar results when it came to the question of squadmate popularity. It's almost always Liara/Garrus > Tali/James/EDI > Ashley > Kaidan. I mean...even Casey Hudson said there's not a lot of love out there for Kaidan. Party members are some of the most resource-intensive features of a game. Ashley and Kaidan are two mutually exclusive characters with two voice actors, both of which are dead for some and alive for others...and they're not exactly fan favorites. I think it was a bit unrealistic to expect that they would get more content than Liara or Garrus.

I think it's unfair to use data based on how many players have chosen a squad mate as a popularity contest considering the fact that the VS was unavailable throughout most of ME3. I'm not saying they would win if they were available, but I don't think it holds much water. That's like saying Liara isn't a popular character cause she wasn't picked as a squad mate in ME2

I also don't think it's unrealistic at all to expect them to use the VS more. The VS is a part of Shep's profile. 
If they're going to go through the trouble of making Virmire and Shep's choice there a part of his psych profile then they should go all out and let us witness in the story the affect that choice has on him. That could have been done through the VS.  I played ME3 first and I expected Kaidan to give me more than what I got because of the profile choice. I didn't get a chance to fully connect with the character or even the events on virmire until I played the entire series. So much for first time players being able to begin with ME3.

Also, The writers even give Liara VS type content even when it makes no sense for her to have it. Like in "From the Ashes" If you go to Eden Prime with Liara she will reminisce about Eden Prime with you, mentioning how it all began there. I think she says this if the VS is not present. imo, it seems hollow for her to go over Eden Prime with you. This is where Shep first come together with both Kaidan and Ashley.

PS. I had no idea Jacob had a high survival rate. I usually just skip his loyalty mission then send him through the vents like he asks. bye bye Jacob.

[DuskWanderer]

Hazegurl wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I agree, Jacob probably wins the title if we are talking about the whole triology...but at least he had the highest survival rate in the Suicide Mission out of all squadmates

The infographic is, of course, not 100% accurate, but most unofficial surveys (the Mass Effect universe survey with over 17,000 participants was the the most comprehensive and largest sample size we had before Bioware released the PAX statistics) had very similar results when it came to the question of squadmate popularity. It's almost always Liara/Garrus > Tali/James/EDI > Ashley > Kaidan. I mean...even Casey Hudson said there's not a lot of love out there for Kaidan. Party members are some of the most resource-intensive features of a game. Ashley and Kaidan are two mutually exclusive characters with two voice actors, both of which are dead for some and alive for others...and they're not exactly fan favorites. I think it was a bit unrealistic to expect that they would get more content than Liara or Garrus.

I think it's unfair to use data based on how many players have chosen a squad mate as a popularity contest considering the fact that the VS was unavailable throughout most of ME3. I'm not saying they would win if they were available, but I don't think it holds much water. That's like saying Liara isn't a popular character cause she wasn't picked as a squad mate in ME2

I also don't think it's unrealistic at all to expect them to use the VS more. The VS is a part of Shep's profile. 
If they're going to go through the trouble of making Virmire and Shep's choice there a part of his psych profile then they should go all out and let us witness in the story the affect that choice has on him. That could have been done through the VS.  I played ME3 first and I expected Kaidan to give me more than what I got because of the profile choice. I didn't get a chance to fully connect with the character or even the events on virmire until I played the entire series. So much for first time players being able to begin with ME3.

Also, The writers even give Liara VS type content even when it makes no sense for her to have it. Like in "From the Ashes" If you go to Eden Prime with Liara she will reminisce about Eden Prime with you, mentioning how it all began there. I think she says this if the VS is not present. imo, it seems hollow for her to go over Eden Prime with you. This is where Shep first come together with both Kaidan and Ashley.

PS. I had no idea Jacob had a high survival rate. I usually just skip his loyalty mission then send him through the vents like he asks. bye bye Jacob.

Sorry, there's just no way Liara is the most popular squadmate. In none of the surveys or anything do I see that she is on the level of Garrus, just no way. The only reason her character is that high was she and Vega (who also scored high) are only ones available for the whole game. 

If they talk about how Liara is romanced the most in ME1, that's actually due to a bug, her romance will start the second you talk to her without any romantic dialogue at all. If bug is not the right word, it's certainly not indicative of Liara's favoritism. She has a sizable hatedom as well. 

I think, as the topic said, it's writer favoritism. I recall the team saying they liked writing Liara's story more than anyone else's. 

More to the point, as I recall, only 20% of players picked Kaidan at all: If he's 4% overall, for example, that means he's 20% picked in the games he is in (and given that's Tali's level, well...) 

But more to the point, simply put plotline wise, Liara has literally zero reason to be the required party member for Eden Prime: She wasn't there. They just put her there to give her more screentime then the VS, who was there, or even Garrus, who was at least partially relevant. Liara says the "from the beginning" line regardless of whether or not the VS is there: You must interact with Liara, interacting with the other character is optional.

There's really no getting around it: Liara was worshipped by the writers.

[Barquiel]

DuskWanderer wrote...

Sorry, there's just no way Liara is the most popular squadmate. In none of the surveys or anything do I see that she is on the level of Garrus, just no way. The only reason her character is that high was she and Vega (who also scored high) are only ones available for the whole game. If they talk about how Liara is romanced the most in ME1, that's actually due to a bug, her romance will start the second you talk to her without any romantic dialogue at all. If bug is not the right word, it's certainly not indicative of Liara's favoritism. She has a sizable hatedom as well. 

MEU survey (17.482 participants)
Romance: Liara 6330 votes, Tali 3044 votes, Ashley 2144
Most favored squad mates: Liara/Garrus 5776 votes, Garrus/Tali 2147 votes, Garrus/Javik 1333 votes
http://www.masseffec...k/#.UlauQhDqvIV

ME Romance survey (6.181 participants)
My Shepard(s) romanced...: Liara (56,9%), Garrus (41,7%), Tali (40,6%)
https://docs.google....drive_web&pli=1

Leviathan DLC Survey (1.787 participants)
Most favored squad mates: Garrus (59%), Liara (58%), Javik (34%)
http://social.biowar.../index/13953226

If you know of any larger/more comprehensive ME3 surveys, feel free to post them. And the game gives you multiple prompts where you have to confirm that you are in a relationship with Liara, even if your Shep has been romancing her since Mass Effect 1 (it's also a blatant lie that her romance will start the second you talk to her without any romantic dialogue at all). 

DuskWanderer wrote...
I think, as the topic said, it's writer favoritism. I recall the team saying they liked writing Liara's story more than anyone else's. 

Source?

DuskWanderer wrote...
More to the point, as I recall, only 20% of players picked Kaidan at all: If he's 4% overall, for example, that means he's 20% picked in the games he is in (and given that's Tali's level, well...) 

According to the pax infographic, Kaidan was at 1,5 % (yes, I know he isn't available for one third of the game) and 24% of players have him in their games.  Hazegurl is right, we don't know how many players have chosen a squad mate as a popularity contest. But I think people tend to use their favorites. The game is really not too hard and forces you to pick certain squadmates...especially on lower difficulties (only 4% of players have finished the game on insanity). And Tali was at 7,8 %.

DuskWanderer wrote...
But more to the point, simply put plotline wise, Liara has literally zero reason to be the required party member for Eden Prime: She wasn't there. They just put her there to give her more screentime then the VS, who was there, or even Garrus, who was at least partially relevant. Liara says the "from the beginning" line regardless of whether or not the VS is there: You must interact with Liara, interacting with the other character is optional.

From what I've seen on Youtube, Liara informs Shepard of the correct way to open the pod. Without this information, Shepard may well have damaged the pod and killed Javik. It wouldn't make any sense if James, Ashley or Garrus suddenly know how to open an ancient prothean pod...

DuskWanderer wrote...
There's really no getting around it: Liara was worshipped by the writers.

Jack is Casey Hudson's favorite character as revealed in the CE Strat guide. Mac Walters favorites are Garrus, TIM and Aria. Drew Karpyshyn created Liara, but he left the Mass Effect team just before Mass Effect 2. So, who exactly "worships" her?

[DuskWanderer]

Barquiel wrote...

MEU survey (17.482 participants)
Romance: Liara 6330 votes, Tali 3044 votes, Ashley 2144
Most favored squad mates: Liara/Garrus 5776 votes, Garrus/Tali 2147 votes, Garrus/Javik 1333 votes
http://www.masseffec...k/#.UlauQhDqvIV

Careful you don't misstep, friend, and how quickly you forget Liara is romanceable by both genders. You would actually have to compare the number of people that are actually capable of romancing them (and of course, imports) 

FemShep is only picked by 1/3 of players, but Garrus has how many compared to Liara? He's only got a third of the chances. Ditto with Tali and Ashley. Given that the survey also says people imported their romances, you may even say the same with Kaidan. In conclusion 36/100 is nice, but unless Garrus is less than 12% (and he's not), he's actually more popular than Liara. The same with Tali (she's at 2/3). And then Ashley has to take 75% of the total since she's not in 25% of the games (since they picked Kaidan), and Kaidan has to take 25% of the total (since 75% picked Ashley). 

All of these factors lead me to believe that all four of them (Garrus, Tali, Ashley, and Kaidan) are more often picked than Liara. Raw numbers may support her, but she has more options to be romanced then the other four. 


If you know of any larger/more comprehensive ME3 surveys, feel free to post them. And the game gives you multiple prompts where you have to confirm that you are in a relationship with Liara, even if your Shep has been romancing her since Mass Effect 1 (it's also a blatant lie that her romance will start the second you talk to her without any romantic dialogue at all). 

Source?

What do you call the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC? Or all the constant moments she was given over the course of the series. if you don't consider it writer bias, what do you consider it? 

According to the pax infographic, Kaidan was at 1,5 % (yes, I know he isn't available for one third of the game) and 24% of players have him in their games.  Hazegurl is right, we don't know how many players have chosen a squad mate as a popularity contest. But I think people tend to use their favorites. The game is really not too hard and forces you to pick certain squadmates...especially on lower difficulties (only 4% of players have finished the game on insanity). And Tali was at 7,8 %.

What are you attempting to prove with this? In addition to Liara being required for missions (thus, driving up her numbers), I think people just tend to pick the ones they know. Also, you very quickly discount the fact that Ash/Kaidan isn't around for half the game. I'm also pretty sure most people pick the missions like the Sanctum lab as soon as they get them. In that case, you'd only have a few missions left with Ash/Kaidan around. 

From what I've seen on Youtube, Liara informs Shepard of the correct way to open the pod. Without this information, Shepard may well have damaged the pod and killed Javik. It wouldn't make any sense if James, Ashley or Garrus suddenly know how to open an ancient prothean pod...

She doesn't do that: Shepard gets data from the Eden Prime labs (through aid of the Cypher) and figures out how to open it. All Liara says is that the pod was damaged, which she gathered from a few taps on her omni-tool. Given that Liara has as much experience with Prothean cryo-stasis as anyone else (to say, none), I'm still not certain why they forced her on us. Other than for us to shill her.

Jack is Casey Hudson's favorite character as revealed in the CE Strat guide. Mac Walters favorites are Garrus, TIM and Aria. Drew Karpyshyn created Liara, but he left the Mass Effect team just before Mass Effect 2. So, who exactly "worships" her?

The fact that she's shoehorned everywhere as Shepard's friend when it's wholly irrelevant to the narrative. Whoever thought of that was the one that worshipped her. What would you call it if not favoritism? As much as I like Jack in ME3, she has the very real possibility of not being there. Ditto with Garrus.

Modifié par DuskWanderer, 10 octobre 2013 - 08:06 .

[EarthboundNess]

Bioware saw the complaints about Liara being everywhere and thought they'd make it a little more literal.

But wait! The thread is about Liara! And this is the BSN. Look what it devolves into.

Good grief, the hatred some people can give (still) to a fictional because the writers overused her is disturbing.