986 réponses à ce sujet

[DuskWanderer]

Xilizhra wrote...

Probably because there's no proof that she hid anything.

There is, actually. If you ask her about it when she gives you the mission, she comments that "All races have their secrets" in response to why she took so long. 

Not nearly enough.

There's also the conversations with Liara, conversations with EDI (in which you are too devastated to answer her questions about human behavior, or listen to one of her jokes), conversations with Garrus (in which they say it's terrible). You may also count the conversation with Kaidan and Adams (in which they say it's devastating, but only in context to Liara.) 

[AlexMBrennan]

Probably because there's no proof that she hid anything.

Even assuming that's true, you are saying that the player should not be able to say anything that isn't 100% factually accurate... are you sure you get the idea of role-playing?

[Display Name Owner]

I was never bothered by Liara, but yesterday I finally got around to importing my meanie Shep, and just the way he greets her when she shows up on Mars was jarring, like he's so happy to see her. I'd always pictured this particular Shep being strictly business with her. Their relationship was definitely more set in stone in ME3. Not fully, since you can still choose between dialogue options, but she's definitely somewhat close to Shepard whatever the case, which works well for some playthroughs and horribly for others.

But then it's not just Liara, the same goes for a lot of characters. I like Garrus a lot, but for people who don't, I can imagine his chummy status is really grating. I don't care about Thane, but in his death scene it'll look like I do. I never considered Legion a friend, but Shep certainly treats him enough like one. Etc. etc...

[Xilizhra]

There is, actually. If you ask her about it when she gives you the mission, she comments that "All races have their secrets" in response to why she took so long.

That's a reference to the asari power elite, not herself.

There's also the conversations with Liara, conversations with EDI (in which you are too devastated to answer her questions about human behavior, or listen to one of her jokes), conversations with Garrus (in which they say it's terrible). You may also count the conversation with Kaidan and Adams (in which they say it's devastating, but only in context to Liara.)

I wasn't referring to numbers of conversations, which are fine; I was hoping to be a shade angrier at Joker.

Even assuming that's true, you are saying that the player should not be able to say anything that isn't 100% factually accurate... are you sure you get the idea of role-playing?

It's not a lack I'm terribly concerned about.

[Sir DeLoria]

I sometimes wonder why people call Liara out for being particularly courageous. She's far, far less courageous than Garrus, Tali, Thane, Mordin, Miranda, Jack or Samara who are all more than willing to give their lives for the cause.

The only thing Liara does in ME3 is crying "I'm only 109" and telling Shep how it might be better to just run like a coward.

[Barquiel]

Yes, jumping off a cliff...that's really courageous.

As for Thessia, you can tell Liara that the reapers would have conquered Thessia even if we got there before Cerberus. The idea was to get the catalyst/activate the crucible/destroy the reapers > start rebuilding Thessia (and everything else). But Shepard lost and in that brief moment the war efforts had been for nothing. Without the Crucible, the galactic community might as well just put their weapons down and give in to harvesting. Shepard is a winner and Thessia was the one time that she lost and when she did, she lost big. Add to this that Thessia reminded her of what happened to Earth and how the war was already grinding on her mind and you get a devastated Shepard.

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

I sometimes wonder why people call Liara out for being particularly courageous. She's far, far less courageous than Garrus, Tali, Thane, Mordin, Miranda, Jack or Samara who are all more than willing to give their lives for the cause.

The only thing Liara does in ME3 is crying "I'm only 109" and telling Shep how it might be better to just run like a coward.

You're being silly again. She was never saying that, only saying that she might wind up surviving through the whole cycle.

[iOnlySignIn]

Necanor wrote...

The only thing Liara does in ME3 is crying "I'm only 109" and telling Shep how it might be better to just run like a coward.

If she actually suggested that I'd like her portrayal in ME3 a lot more, since that's actually the smart thing to do.

It's what Catwoman suggested to Batman on multiple occassions (in The Dark Knight Rises for example) and it made me like Catwoman a lot more since she cares more about the welfare of the protagonist than some laughable childish notions of heroism or justice.

Barquiel wrote...

Yes, jumping off a cliff...that's really courageous.

^ Also this.

What else can you expect from Talimancers.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 13 octobre 2013 - 01:48 .

[Han Shot First]

Xilizhra wrote...


You're being silly again. She was never saying that, only saying that she might wind up surviving through the whole cycle.

Pretty much.

Posts like the one you responded to make me happy that I don't have to watch TV with people from the BSN. I can only imagine how they might react to something like say, the ending to the Sopranos, when they misunderstand and misinterpret content that is fairly straightforward in Mass Effect.

BSNer: "Man that ending sucked. Nothing happened!"

Me:



 

Modifié par Han Shot First, 13 octobre 2013 - 03:09 .

[AlexMBrennan]

That's a reference to the asari power elite, not herself.

Which is utterly irrelevant - whether it was the decision of the Asari councillor to withhold crucial information until it was too late or the decision of the Illuminati/asari elite/your dog to withhold crucial information from the Asari Councillor, the fact remains is that it was already too late when Shepard was informed, an Shepard should thus be able to call out the Councillor for blaming Shepard for failing to succeed at an impossible task.

It's not a lack I'm terribly concerned about.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, or how it is supposed to be a response to my argument ("In an RPG, you should be able to play a character who says stuff that is wrong, prejudiced etc. Thus, the lack of an option to call out the Councillor (whether correct or otherwise) is a problem")

[Xilizhra]

Which is utterly irrelevant - whether it was the decision of the Asari councillor to withhold crucial information until it was too late or the decision of the Illuminati/asari elite/your dog to withhold crucial information from the Asari Councillor, the fact remains is that it was already too late when Shepard was informed, an Shepard should thus be able to call out the Councillor for blaming Shepard for failing to succeed at an impossible task.

This might have been true if the Councilor had actually blamed Shepard for anything.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, or how it is supposed to be a response to my argument ("In an RPG, you should be able to play a character who says stuff that is wrong, prejudiced etc. Thus, the lack of an option to call out the Councillor (whether correct or otherwise) is a problem")

I'm saying I don't care about not having that option.

[Sir DeLoria]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

If she actually suggested that I'd like her portrayal in ME3 a lot more, since that's actually the smart thing to do.

It's what Catwoman suggested to Batman on multiple occassions (in The Dark Knight Rises for example) and it made me like Catwoman a lot more since she cares more about the welfare of the protagonist than some laughable childish notions of heroism or justice.

Shep is a high ranking officer in the alliance and a council spectre. He has his duties, oaths and responsibilities. 

Running isn't "the smart thing to do", it's the coward's way out.

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...
You're being silly again. She was never saying that, only saying that she might wind up surviving through the whole cycle.

I'm pretty sure she suggested on Mars how it might be better, to just accept fate and run from the war.

[RZIBARA]

I agree, while Liara isnt really courageous, neither is Tali.

If anyone is, it's probably Garrus, Mordin and Javik.

[Sir DeLoria]

RZIBARA wrote...

I agree, while Liara isnt really courageous, neither is Tali.

If anyone is, it's probably Garrus, Mordin and Javik.

Yeah, I guess she's not the most courageous squadmate. Well, at least she isn't afraid of dying.

Thane is pretty courageous as well. At least in the face of certain death.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

That's a reference to the asari power elite, not herself.

Which is utterly irrelevant - whether it was the decision of the Asari councillor to withhold crucial information until it was too late or the decision of the Illuminati/asari elite/your dog to withhold crucial information from the Asari Councillor, the fact remains is that it was already too late when Shepard was informed, an Shepard should thus be able to call out the Councillor for blaming Shepard for failing to succeed at an impossible task.

It's not a lack I'm terribly concerned about.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, or how it is supposed to be a response to my argument ("In an RPG, you should be able to play a character who says stuff that is wrong, prejudiced etc. Thus, the lack of an option to call out the Councillor (whether correct or otherwise) is a problem")

Ah yes, did anyone catch Vendetta's comment that it was programmed not to give any information on the Catalyst until the Crucible was complete? <_< The Crucible was not complete yet. So it babbled on about insignificant bulls*** while The Illusive Man's stooge came in. All it had to say was. The Catalyst was the Citadel. Thank you, good bye. Did we really need the information dump about all the other cycles? No. it did that so Kai Lame could get there and bust up the party. 


And stop dumping on Liara. Shepard would be reaper paste without her. And without Tali, Shepard would be a nobody.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 13 octobre 2013 - 07:20 .

[RZIBARA]

Necanor wrote...

RZIBARA wrote...

I agree, while Liara isnt really courageous, neither is Tali.

If anyone is, it's probably Garrus, Mordin and Javik.

Yeah, I guess she's not the most courageous squadmate. Well, at least she isn't afraid of dying.

Thane is pretty courageous as well. At least in the face of certain death.

yes, I agree on Thane

[The Night Mammoth]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
You're being silly again. She was never saying that, only saying that she might wind up surviving through the whole cycle.

I'm pretty sure she suggested on Mars how it might be better, to just accept fate and run from the war.

She worries that their efforts might be in vain and the Reapers can't be stopped, but no, she does not suggest it might better to run from the war and accept their fate. 

As for which characters are courageous, well, all of them. They all do their bit to fight the Reapers and put themselves at risk.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 13 octobre 2013 - 07:26 .

[DuskWanderer]

As much as I don't like Liara or the way she's presented, she doesn't suggest running away or giving up. At worst, she goes through a period of angst and worries it won't work until she's pep-talked out of it. Annoying, but not fatalistic.

Being unable to criticize Tevos is a problem though. Why Shepard felt the need to apologize is beyond me.

When it comes to courage, facing certain death for the cause is truly courageous. Ash, Kaidan, Thane, Mordin, and Garrus are very courageous. Miranda is less so, but still pretty courageous. I'm on the fence about Samara, but I don't think Jack is very courageous.

[Skvindt]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

And stop dumping on Liara. Shepard would be reaper paste without her. And without Tali, Shepard would be a nobody.

This is a Liara hate thread, request denied.

[TheMyron]

Liara is actually part of Leng's excuse for winning on Thessia, he would not have been able to throw someone like Garrus or Vega.

[Kataphrut94]

^ Which is weird, because he could have chucked any other squadmate and they would have done more damage. It would actually make sense if he'd disabled Liara by throwing James at her, but it just looks a bit silly the other way around.

OT: I wish that people would stop this nonsense about Liara somehow being a stalker. I don't even know what she's done to get that reputation, but the worst people seem to bring up is her going up to Shepard's cabin a couple of times to chat. Umm...if that's your idea of 'stalking', then that reflects worse on you than it does her.