986 réponses à ce sujet

[Soccer FeverMan]

Barquiel wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

So Kaidan got those commendations from what, playing Dragon Age on the holo?

Also did the Blitz and Torfan escape your mind? Two very big battles?

 
...against batarian warlords and pirates 

And not all commendations require service in a combat area.

You act like that proves your point. 

From what i gather randomly encountering a group of pirates is a completely different and less taxing experience, than fighting ones that are entrenched and most likely using guerilla tactics.

It's like one going through mogadishu and the other just fighting off 3 random somali pirates on a wooden boat.

Another point i have to ask how often do you think Liara encountered pirates? and do you honestly believe she was always completely alone on her digs in prothean archealogical sites with no security team of any sorts.

[Zakuspec089]

I know I love Liara. It because she have one of the best storylines and background, best Love Interests. People that haven't played all three games or read side things. They don't know that very well. I don't find Liara Appearance annoying. I know I'm a Liara Fanboy, she cares about Shepard and Crew.

Liara cares more than most of the other character we met, that what I think and it's true. Liara even cared about Edi, Tali, Garry and few others. I know my favorite characters are Liara, Tali, Edi, Garry, Wrex and few others. I'm looking forward to future games and characters, I hope they have characters like the ones we had previously, did love to have new Asari Squadmates, Turians and few others.

[Xilizhra]

We may go back and forth on this for ages, but the point is that Liara is perfectly combat-capable in all three games, which you can, well, see at any time. Doubt if you like, but she's earned her place.

[DuskWanderer]

Xilizhra wrote...

We may go back and forth on this for ages, but the point is that Liara is perfectly combat-capable in all three games, which you can, well, see at any time. Doubt if you like, but she's earned her place.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the point that was raised was that Liara is incredibly condescending to the VS, be it Ashley or Kaidan, on Mars, acting as though she's superior in combat to the both of them, and that they've "become capable" is actually quite insulting for her to say. 

[iOnlySignIn]

Xilizhra wrote...

We may go back and forth on this for ages, but the point is that Liara is perfectly combat-capable in all three games, which you can, well, see at any time. Doubt if you like, but she's earned her place.

I think by "the least credible fighter" Seboist means that Liara is an incredibly good fighter. As in unbelievably good.

In ME1 she's the most OP squadmate by far because she can equip both Omnitool and Bioamp (and hence benefit from both), has the best CC abilities (Singularity, Lift) with the fastest cooldown, plus Electronics which helps repair the Mako and enables you to take a whole team of Biotics and/or skip Electronics yourself, and the highest Shields among all characters (Barrier + Electronics).

If that had been normal/credible/believable for a young Asari archaeologist with no formal military training then the Asari would have wiped out all the Reaper ground forces within the entire Council Space in less than an week.

She's really powerful in ME2 and ME3 too but not to the extent of being more powerful than any other squadmate in every way.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 17 octobre 2013 - 02:21 .

[DuskWanderer]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

So Kaidan got those commendations from what, playing Dragon Age on the holo?

Also did the Blitz and Torfan escape your mind? Two very big battles?

 
...against batarian warlords and pirates 

And not all commendations require service in a combat area.

You act like that proves your point. 

From what i gather randomly encountering a group of pirates is a completely different and less taxing experience, than fighting ones that are entrenched and most likely using guerilla tactics.

It's like one going through mogadishu and the other just fighting off 3 random somali pirates on a wooden boat.

Another point i have to ask how often do you think Liara encountered pirates? and do you honestly believe she was always completely alone on her digs in prothean archealogical sites with no security team of any sorts.

Not to mention that, at best, Liara had to deal with a half-dozen untrained mercs looking for some good old-fashioned pillage. The Blitz was a war. 

[DuskWanderer]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

We may go back and forth on this for ages, but the point is that Liara is perfectly combat-capable in all three games, which you can, well, see at any time. Doubt if you like, but she's earned her place.

I think by "the least credible fighter" Seboist means that Liara is an incredibly good fighter. As in unbelievably good.

In ME1 she's the most OP squadmate by far because she can equip both Omnitool and Bioamp (and hence benefit from both), has the best CC abilities (Singularity, Lift) with the fastest cooldown, plus Electronics which helps repair the Mako and enables you to take a whole team of Biotics and/or skip Electronics yourself, and the highest Shields among all characters (Barrier + Electronics).

If that had been normal/credible/believable for a young Asari archaeologist with no formal military training then the Asari would have wiped out all the Reaper ground forces within the entire Council Space in less than an week.

She's really powerful in ME2 and ME3 too but not to the extent of being more powerful than any other squadmate in every way.

In one phrase: Gameplay and Story Segregation

[The Night Mammoth]

Never seen someone compliment someone else from a position of relative inferiority before? I thought people did that all the time, nothing insulting or condescending about it.

[spirosz]

Liara is combat capable of course, but it ends at that.

[Xilizhra]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the point that was raised was that Liara is incredibly condescending to the VS, be it Ashley or Kaidan, on Mars, acting as though she's superior in combat to the both of them, and that they've "become capable" is actually quite insulting for her to say.

If you want to take it that way, sure. I didn't. She hasn't seen them in years, after all, and I'm fairly sure they have abilities they didn't have back in ME1.

I think by "the least credible fighter" Seboist means that Liara is an incredibly good fighter. As in unbelievably good.

In ME1 she's the most OP squadmate by far because she can equip both Omnitool and Bioamp (and hence benefit from both), has the best CC abilities (Singularity, Lift) with the fastest cooldown, plus Electronics which helps repair the Mako and enables you to take a whole team of Biotics and/or skip Electronics yourself, and the highest Shields among all characters (Barrier + Electronics).

If that had been normal/credible/believable for a young Asari archaeologist with no formal military training then the Asari would have wiped out all the Reaper ground forces within the entire Council Space in less than an week.

She's really powerful in ME2 and ME3 too but not to the extent of being more powerful than any other squadmate in every way.

Well, her equivalents in power are Cerberus' super-biotic, an elite and very experienced paladin, and a psychic vampire who possibly becomes stronger with each victim, so yes, I'm reasonably sure that her power level is canon. She seems to be something of a prodigy.

[Steelcan]

Maybe Liara would be better if she spent less time hugging the dirt

[spirosz]

Steelcan wrote...

Maybe Liara would be better if she spent less time hugging the dirt

[wolfhowwl]

Both Tali and Liara are laughably out of place on the ME1 squad.

[Soccer FeverMan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Actually, I'm pretty sure the point that was raised was that Liara is incredibly condescending to the VS, be it Ashley or Kaidan, on Mars, acting as though she's superior in combat to the both of them, and that they've "become capable" is actually quite insulting for her to say.

If you want to take it that way, sure. I didn't. She hasn't seen them in years, after all, and I'm fairly sure they have abilities they didn't have back in ME1.

I think by "the least credible fighter" Seboist means that Liara is an incredibly good fighter. As in unbelievably good.

In ME1 she's the most OP squadmate by far because she can equip both Omnitool and Bioamp (and hence benefit from both), has the best CC abilities (Singularity, Lift) with the fastest cooldown, plus Electronics which helps repair the Mako and enables you to take a whole team of Biotics and/or skip Electronics yourself, and the highest Shields among all characters (Barrier + Electronics).

If that had been normal/credible/believable for a young Asari archaeologist with no formal military training then the Asari would have wiped out all the Reaper ground forces within the entire Council Space in less than an week.

She's really powerful in ME2 and ME3 too but not to the extent of being more powerful than any other squadmate in every way.

Well, her equivalents in power are Cerberus' super-biotic, an elite and very experienced paladin, and a psychic vampire who possibly becomes stronger with each victim, so yes, I'm reasonably sure that her power level is canon. She seems to be something of a prodigy Mary Sue

Fixed

[Hazegurl]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Both Tali and Liara are laughably out of place on the ME1 squad.

True, they were both info dumps that helped story progression for like a moment. Not worth keeping onboard the Normandy or bringing into battle. I never used either of them much.

Besides, if Liara was such a powerful combat specialist then why did she opt to secure herself instead of fight? Ashley was fighting, running, and surviving when she was found. Liara was held up in a field with no attempt to fight anyone at all and probably would have died in there if Shepard didn't need her.

[Barquiel]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

You act like that proves your point. 

From what i gather randomly encountering a group of pirates is a completely different and less taxing experience, than fighting ones that are entrenched and most likely using guerilla tactics.

It's like one going through mogadishu and the other just fighting off 3 random somali pirates on a wooden boat.

Another point i have to ask how often do you think Liara encountered pirates? and do you honestly believe she was always completely alone on her digs in prothean archealogical sites with no security team of any sorts.

Yes...I know that. But the VS wasn't on Elysium and Torfan. Shepard and Pressly were present during the Skyllian Blitz, ruthless Shepard was on Torfan.

Anyway, there is no indication Liara was the least credible fighter in the squad. She can form a singularity which as far as the lore goes only the most powerful biotics can accomplish (Kaidan has only basic biotic skills for example). So it's save to assume Benezia spent considerable time training Liara and/or she had enough opportunities to "practice". That doesn't mean she is a battle-hardened combat veteran like Wrex ofc.

Modifié par Barquiel, 17 octobre 2013 - 09:11 .

[KaiserShep]

Hazegurl wrote...
Besides, if Liara was such a powerful combat specialist then why did she opt to secure herself instead of fight? Ashley was fighting, running, and surviving when she was found. Liara was held up in a field with no attempt to fight anyone at all and probably would have died in there if Shepard didn't need her.

This isn't a good example of Liara being ineffective at all. Liara was being pursued by a krogan battlemaster and a legion of geth with seemingly no armor and no weapons. She was there to study the ruins on her own, and had no reason to expect anything beyond some meager bandits or varren or something, and certainly did not expect to be actively pursued by the army of a rogue Spectre. There's no reason to believe that anyone would be able to fight them off and survive, not even Ashley. Even if she's a powerful biotic, the krogan is also a biotic, who just so happens to have lots more weaponry on his side.

[KaiserShep]

I always saw Sarah Connor as falling victim to the Cassandra complex, since she's completely alone in believing that there's going to be a machine apocalypse, and of course the fact that a robot skeleton tried to kill her, only to have it totally disappear, because a corporation scooped up the remains so no one could find it. If anything, Shepard would be more likely to suffer from this sort of thing, having seen the visions from the beacon, and having the most important lot in the galaxy totally disregard it all. The only real bright side to all of this is that there are other characters who believe Shepard. Sarah Connor had no such benefit, and was subjected to a miserable asylum, not to mention being abused at the same time. Liara shouldn't turn into the same type of character Sarah Connor did, because Sarah Connor's transformation came out of complete isolation as well as violence.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 17 octobre 2013 - 10:47 .

[KaiserShep]

Eh she did kind of come to terms with the idea that she'd have to die when you take her to Peak 15 even before the fight actually started.

[Barquiel]

StreetMagic wrote...

That's what I'm saying though.. Sarah had some clear reasons why she changed so much. Liara, not so much. Even Dragon Age tried to account for things like this when it came to the goody-good characters. Like Leliana and Alistair had a breaking point where you either harden them or keep them sensitive. Leliana used to be a killer, but she was afraid she was getting back in touch with that side. Alistair had a moment when he decided to stand up for himself more.

I'd argue that her core personality didn't change. Look at how excited she got when she saw Shephard in ME2. Look at how shaken up she got at Thessia's/Palaven's fall. She's very compassionate and caring, even in ME3.

She's more sure of herself now, sure...but why wouldn't she be? Take for example Illium, I think it's made quite clear that Liara was using one of Benezia's threats as an element of the facade that she has constructed out of necessity, and in order to operate in Illium's underworld. Similar to that of Paragon Shepard, Liara is sometimes forced to threaten an individual with violence when no other option exists, regardless of the fact that she hates that manner of conducting oneself. People simply act differently depending on their responsibilities and level of comfort.

[l7986]

Steelcan wrote...

Maybe Liara would be better if she spent less time hugging the dirt

Pretty much this. Most of the time I take her along its a multitude of "Liara's down," medigel, "Liara's down" medigel, "Liara's down," why the **** didn't I bring Wrex.