You remind me of Pvt Pyle.David7204 wrote...
Trying to claim that whoever your least favorite character is is also the worst character in gameplay is not only very, very silly silly, but very, very obvious.
People who like Miranda claim that Miranda is the best character in combat. What a surprise. People who hate Liara claim Liara is the worst character in combat. What a surprise.
Ahhh! Liara WTF!!?
Débuté par
Mathias
, sept. 30 2013 02:33
#576
Posté 17 octobre 2013 - 10:33
themikefest
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Retour en haut
#577
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 17 octobre 2013 - 10:40
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Lots of people who don't even like Miranda would still say she's the most useful in ME2. It's just a Sentinel thing. They're versatile. But her passive puts her over the top as well.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 17 octobre 2013 - 10:41 .
#578
Posté 17 octobre 2013 - 10:42
David7204
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And that's great for them. It's good that not everyone succumbs to bias.
#579
Posté 17 octobre 2013 - 11:36
MassivelyEffective0730
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StreetMagic wrote...
Lots of people who don't even like Miranda would still say she's the most useful in ME2. It's just a Sentinel thing. They're versatile. But her passive puts her over the top as well.
Yes. Miranda may be my favorite character, but she is also, in my opinion, the most useful squadmate in gameplay. Her skills are suited to pretty much everything. She has overload for shields, warp for barriers, and slam is very useful for stunning targets. Her passive gives a decent health boost to Squadmates and Shepard. Give her a Carnifex as a sidearm and equip that and she packs a very good punch. She's the most well rounded squadmate in gameplay, and all her powers are useful. She's even better in Citadel DLC. Warp, Reave, Overload, and Incinerate, mixed with her passive that she holds once again? The only downside is that she's confined to the damn Armax Arena.
Her only real downside is that she is pretty squishy, especially on higher difficulties.
Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 17 octobre 2013 - 11:37 .
#580
Posté 17 octobre 2013 - 11:45
jtav
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First playthrough, I took Miranda on missions because she was a defense stripper. Liking the character was later. And Liara is an absolute beast in combat if used correctly. She can mow down mobs pretty much on her own in ME1 and I found her biotic combos and Stasis Bubble invaluable in ME3. I'd be more sympathetic to people who thought Tali was useless in ME3. Whoever designed her power set should be ashamed.
#581
Posté 17 octobre 2013 - 11:48
MassivelyEffective0730
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jtav wrote...
First playthrough, I took Miranda on missions because she was a defense stripper. Liking the character was later. And Liara is an absolute beast in combat if used correctly. She can mow down mobs pretty much on her own in ME1 and I found her biotic combos and Stasis Bubble invaluable in ME3. I'd be more sympathetic to people who thought Tali was useless in ME3. Whoever designed her power set should be ashamed.
As far as powers go, Liara, I honestly thought was rather meh in ME1, mainly since I'm simply not a fan of how the powers are used in that game.
Tali is absolutely useless as a squadmate. Her drones have no survivability at all, and her AI Hack really doesn't do much more than have a small period where a hacked Geth stares at you for 5 seconds before shooting again. Power Drain is her only redeemable power, but her weapon set and squishyness just do not make her worth taking ever.
#582
Posté 17 octobre 2013 - 11:56
jtav
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My ME1 games are basically Liara and Tali killing everything while Shep occasionally gets a shot in. ME2 is Miranda and whoever has the LM slot (or Jacob/Jack). I use every but Ash and Tali pretty equally in 3, though IIRC Liara is consistently my most used.
#583
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 01:08
DuskWanderer
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StreetMagic wrote...
Lots of people who don't even like Miranda would still say she's the most useful in ME2. It's just a Sentinel thing. They're versatile. But her passive puts her over the top as well.
Truer words were never spoken. Miranda was useful in pretty much all situations due to her talents and her passive boost: There wasn't anyone who couldn't benefit from her abilities (If I recall, even if she is downed, you get her passive boost). It has nothing to do with who likes and doesn't like her, that just is.
In that regard, EDI, Garrus, and Kaidan become very useful in the third game for the same reasons. Kaidan may be better for a biotic Shepard, and EDI might be better for a tech Shepard, but all three of them work in any circumstance. By contrast, Liara's only really useful if you have another biotic, or are against vanilla Reaper troops without rachni around. Javik's only good with another biotic around. Tali's good against geth and if there's a lot of Turrets around. Other than that, they aren't really all that useful. It's just the way it is.
Modifié par DuskWanderer, 18 octobre 2013 - 01:11 .
#584
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 01:19
The Night Mammoth
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She doesn't die a lot in any of my playthroughs.DuskWanderer wrote...
Liara has low health. Any of her benefits require her to not be downed to use them. She's downed, she can't detonate, Singularity, or anything. That's another fact. She dies a lot, she's useless.
Well, she does, but only when I'm not paying attention and let her wander around, but that happens with literally every other squadmate.
#585
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 01:29
Tyrannosaurus Rex
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DuskWanderer wrote...
Liara in ME3 is pretty devestating in ME3, even when playing soldier she is worthwhile due to her ability to create her own biotic combos. And she pretty much wipes the floor with Cerberus. Only real problem is maps heavy on Rachni.
#586
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 01:54
KaiserShep
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DuskWanderer wrote...
Liara has low health. Any of her benefits require her to not be downed to use them. She's downed, she can't detonate, Singularity, or anything. That's another fact. She dies a lot, she's useless.
A squad member is only useless if you don't know how to use it.
Modifié par KaiserShep, 18 octobre 2013 - 01:56 .
#587
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 03:05
in it for the lolz
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Hear, hear!Necanor wrote...
No idea how Liara generally performs in combat, I only took her on the missions that actually forced me to take her.
Team Dextro has no room for tentacle heads
Pro Team Dextro since ME2!
#588
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 04:50
Sir DeLoria
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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Tali is absolutely useless as a squadmate. Her drones have no survivability at all, and her AI Hack really doesn't do much more than have a small period where a hacked Geth stares at you for 5 seconds before shooting again. Power Drain is her only redeemable power, but her weapon set and squishyness just do not make her worth taking ever.
What class do you play? I think Tali is one of the most useful squadmates. She's saved the life of my Infiltrator numerous times.
#589
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 04:51
Sir DeLoria
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in it for the lolz wrote...
Hear, hear!Necanor wrote...
No idea how Liara generally performs in combat, I only took her on the missions that actually forced me to take her.
Team Dextro has no room for tentacle heads
Pro Team Dextro since ME2!
That's the spirit:D
#590
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 05:23
in it for the lolz
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But did miss having team Rex (Wrex) & The Birdman (Garrus) in ME2.Necanor wrote...
in it for the lolz wrote...
Hear, hear!Necanor wrote...
No idea how Liara generally performs in combat, I only took her on the missions that actually forced me to take her.
Team Dextro has no room for tentacle heads
Pro Team Dextro since ME2!
That's the spirit:D
#591
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 06:21
KaiserShep
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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Tali is absolutely useless as a squadmate. Her drones have no survivability at all, and her AI Hack really doesn't do much more than have a small period where a hacked Geth stares at you for 5 seconds before shooting again. Power Drain is her only redeemable power, but her weapon set and squishyness just do not make her worth taking ever.
I would disagree that she's useless, but Tali is not as versatile in ME2 and 3 as she was in ME1. With the right armor, shotgun and evolved tech powers, she was practically a tank. In both 2 and 3, I only use her to fight geth, since her power set only really works all that well for them anyway, and then she becomes a member of the engineering team. I found her combat drone to be pretty useful though, especially if maxed out.
Modifié par KaiserShep, 18 octobre 2013 - 06:23 .
#592
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 07:22
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I don't know where to put this, and it might just get lost in the frey, but I think I'll put my final complaint about the subject here (the subject being the inbalance among different LIs).
They all emphasize a certain subtext or story. Some players might not consciously embrace it, but I think these themes are there to roleplay with.
Liara and Garrus.. those two signify a Shep who's truly willing to cooperate, get past differences or feelings of inferiority, who heavily emphasize peace/understanding/camraderie among even the most different of people. This is all cool, for the most part. You're kind of screwed if you don't emphasize these eventually. In the bigger picture of things, it emphasizes where Shep wants to take humanity.
Jack and Ashley I think are loosely similar. They emphasize humanity's struggle out in space, suffering, solitude, self-reliance - not for the sake of superiority, but survival. If humanity is to ascend anywhere, it'll be a lot of luck or sheer ballsiness (or maybe in Ashley's case, it's God him/herself helping you out). They're willing to make nice, but don't want to be dependent. And they don't get past old hatreds easily. It takes hard work. They don't have any illusions about it. They share a lot with Sole Survivor Shep (".....a grim reminder of the price humanity must pay as they spread throughout the stars.").
Miranda represents more transhumanist and shortcut methods, I think. Humanity ascends through more ingenuity and utilitarianism in this case. There's still some similarities to the above with Ash, but I think someone else could do it justice better.
Kaidan and Tali kind of have a little bit of all of these. There's the cooperation with aliens, there's the self-reliance and suffering, the ingenuity...
If I'm going to say anything negative about Liara or Garrus, it's more in that those sub-stories I pointed out are being emphasized more heavily. The whole last game in the trilogy is already pounding you in the head with that particular story as well. The series lost some of it's dimensions by doing that. Like there's no way to contribute to the galaxy unless you're going down this particular path and bonding with these particular friends. Anything else is less than optimal. And maybe it is less than optimal - but people should have been allowed to play it, without feeling too left out on the content end.
Thanks for listening. Please don't bite my head off.
I respect your opinion, if you have one. This is just my 2c (and the post is longer than I cared it to be).
They all emphasize a certain subtext or story. Some players might not consciously embrace it, but I think these themes are there to roleplay with.
Liara and Garrus.. those two signify a Shep who's truly willing to cooperate, get past differences or feelings of inferiority, who heavily emphasize peace/understanding/camraderie among even the most different of people. This is all cool, for the most part. You're kind of screwed if you don't emphasize these eventually. In the bigger picture of things, it emphasizes where Shep wants to take humanity.
Jack and Ashley I think are loosely similar. They emphasize humanity's struggle out in space, suffering, solitude, self-reliance - not for the sake of superiority, but survival. If humanity is to ascend anywhere, it'll be a lot of luck or sheer ballsiness (or maybe in Ashley's case, it's God him/herself helping you out). They're willing to make nice, but don't want to be dependent. And they don't get past old hatreds easily. It takes hard work. They don't have any illusions about it. They share a lot with Sole Survivor Shep (".....a grim reminder of the price humanity must pay as they spread throughout the stars.").
Miranda represents more transhumanist and shortcut methods, I think. Humanity ascends through more ingenuity and utilitarianism in this case. There's still some similarities to the above with Ash, but I think someone else could do it justice better.
Kaidan and Tali kind of have a little bit of all of these. There's the cooperation with aliens, there's the self-reliance and suffering, the ingenuity...
If I'm going to say anything negative about Liara or Garrus, it's more in that those sub-stories I pointed out are being emphasized more heavily. The whole last game in the trilogy is already pounding you in the head with that particular story as well. The series lost some of it's dimensions by doing that. Like there's no way to contribute to the galaxy unless you're going down this particular path and bonding with these particular friends. Anything else is less than optimal. And maybe it is less than optimal - but people should have been allowed to play it, without feeling too left out on the content end.
Thanks for listening. Please don't bite my head off.
I respect your opinion, if you have one. This is just my 2c (and the post is longer than I cared it to be).
Modifié par StreetMagic, 18 octobre 2013 - 07:24 .
#593
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 07:25
KaiserShep
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^Prepare for your crucifixion, heathen.
#594
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 07:40
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Haha.. I'll probably not even present for it anyways. I gotta do something for awhile. Or I'll take a nap on the cross. Fire away.
I agree on Tali in ME1 btw. There's a reason why, even if you reject her offer, Udina (of all people) forces her on the group. She's awesome.
I agree on Tali in ME1 btw. There's a reason why, even if you reject her offer, Udina (of all people) forces her on the group. She's awesome.
#595
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 09:23
Tyrannosaurus Rex
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One thing about Liara that did puzzle me.
Why does she sound so hostile towards Samara when you meet her on the AY monestary? At first I thought this was a consequence of having an attempted romance with Samara in 2. But she has the same line no matter what.
Not sure how you can connect any of "Humanity's place in the galaxy" theme to Jack, other than her relation to Cerberus, but that speaks more of Cerberus and not her.
Why does she sound so hostile towards Samara when you meet her on the AY monestary? At first I thought this was a consequence of having an attempted romance with Samara in 2. But she has the same line no matter what.
StreetMagic wrote...
Not sure how you can connect any of "Humanity's place in the galaxy" theme to Jack, other than her relation to Cerberus, but that speaks more of Cerberus and not her.
#596
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 09:36
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Lizardviking wrote...
Not sure how you can connect any of "Humanity's place in the galaxy" theme to Jack, other than her relation to Cerberus, but that speaks more of Cerberus and not her.
Ascension program. She's now indelibly linked to Kahlee and bringing up/associating with the best humanity can offer at that school. She's a more productive Gillian Grayson. That and her cojones. Her toughness, her hardnosed survival instinct (ash typifies this too). Humanity can never have enough of that.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 18 octobre 2013 - 09:37 .
#597
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 09:43
ThinkSharp
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Lizardviking wrote...
StreetMagic wrote...
Not sure how you can connect any of "Humanity's place in the galaxy" theme to Jack, other than her relation to Cerberus, but that speaks more of Cerberus and not her.
I don't think it's that much of a stretch. You could really sum up the main trajectory of Jack's life, including the Normandy stint, as trying to find her place in the galaxy. I mean the core question of her loyalty mission and it's eventual resolution are pretty much "who am I? why?" Sure, she doesn't really give a **** about the grand idea of "what is humanity's place in the stars?" But she still asks those questions on a personal level.
That her life experiences thus far have been pretty much caused by humanity being thrust into a galaxy shaped by new space-age tech--biotics--and the resulting need to find it's place at the top of the galaxy--Cerberus--just emphasizes the theme more.
I won't speak for Street, but I'd say that on a broader and thematic level it works. If you're going to look at Jack's actual personal opinions, not so much.
And, clearly I'm in ME2-mode.
Modifié par ThinkSharp, 18 octobre 2013 - 09:46 .
#598
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 09:45
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Too bad they didn't bring a climax to Jack's evolution.
Listen to this..
She's like a mother hen. Err.. Or.. mother lioness.
Listen to this..
She's like a mother hen. Err.. Or.. mother lioness.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 18 octobre 2013 - 09:45 .
#599
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 09:54
ThinkSharp
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Yeah, I mean. You can see it at Grissom. But it would been cool to have seen it in action. (And really really scary to be on the receiving end.)
#600
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 10:16
tonnactus
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Uplink(Sovereign just ramming ships that are in the way) and Vigil are my favourites:
