986 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

Xilizhra wrote...

The whole mission was a feel-bad one for everyone.

She was the biggest complainer there. If her planet turned out just fine then it was a lot of whining for nothing.

Your blaming the entire race for an Udina-like secret government cabal is utterly ridiculous.

I see you don't bother to refute anything said. You just don't want them blamed for their own stupidity and inaction. If you're going to call Udina stupid...and he was....let's not stop at him. You want to call someone a betrayer, why stop at Udina? The Asari betrayed the galaxy first.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah, I'm not going be down with no humans. Like I told you before, you're a winner. You're the MVP. Stop trying to get more pandering to your Asari centric worldview. And then acting like you're some "Paragon" in all of this. You play innocent: "Who? What? Me? What did I do wrong?" But you come off like a spoiled child who wants more, more, more and exclusively more. Others are starving for content and some emphasis on other themes, and you're like "Yeah.. how about... more for me. Teehehehe."

Behold, the ME3 forum's Loghain.

We already got buttloads of anthropocentrism in both ME1 and ME3 (ME2 strangely less so, despite one's employers). We're outright drowning in the damned Alliance. I'm not some kind of overpowered winner here; in fact, the asari had very subpar presentation throughout the series as a whole. Not only that, I wasn't even advocating for more content for them alone, but rather something that can actually take the lens off of an exclusively human perspective for a change.

She was the biggest complainer there. If her planet turned out just fine then it was a lot of whining for nothing.

Well, there'd likely still be a lot of casualties.

I see you don't bother to refute anything said. You just don't want them blamed for their own stupidity and inaction. If you're going to call Udina stupid...and he was....let's not stop at him. You want to call someone a betrayer, why stop at Udina? The Asari betrayed the galaxy first.

Because your claim is so asinine. You're blaming a species of trillions for the actions of a few people.

[Hazegurl]

Barquiel wrote...
Tell me one good reason why the council races should send any ships to attack Earth in that situation. Trying to retake Earth at the beginning of the war would have been a suicide mission.

 
I said aid not a full retaking of Earth. Everybody else was asking for aid so why is it such a huge crime for Earth to ask for aid too? Why is it okay for Liara to talk crap about Earth not giving her planet air support when Earth was hit early and harder?

Mind you she cops this attitude while we are sent on a late mission to retrieve tech the Asari have been holding onto preME1.

To quote the codex..."Persistent rumors suggest that Udina might have been a high-functioning victim of  Reaper indoctrination. His actions played right into the Reapers' plans: even if the coup failed, it would damage Citadel governance. If it succeeded, his plan to retake Earth would likely have turned into a military blunder that Council forces could ill afford."

Rumor is not fact. And I'm not saying what Udina did was brilliant or right. What I am saying is that I understand his desperation the same way I understand Cerberus'  Just because they are the bad guys does not mean that I have to see everything thing they do as evil. Or there reasons as evil.

1. The Asari didn't talk to the VI at all. They couldn't activate it. That is stated numerous times by several characters. The Prothean VI only activates when Shepard arrives, due to the Cipher...or Javik's presence. The Asari did never access any information concerning the Reapers.
2. And even if somehow they could have activated the VI, Vendetta is programmed to withold the relevant information until the crucible is complete.

This is where I think the writing is shoddy. Javik mentions how they have guided the Asari and how they have gained their superiority through Prothean tech.  I find it hard to believe that they knew nothing at all about the very thing the Protheans have been sending their warning messages about.   But other than that, even if what you wrote Is the case, it doesn't change the fact the the Asari councilor knew it could help and still sat on it.

[Xilizhra]

I'll agree about the "damned Alliance". I never wanted them to be the
dominant face of humanity either. Nor did I want so much Cerberus. If it
was up to me, I'd want more focus on people caught in the middle of
those two.. more spotlight on colonial life, privateers, corporations,
victims, and people like the civilians on Omega or the Citadel, etc..

The thing is that we also got more information about human versions of them than about those of every other species combined. Humans have apparently spread implausibly fast across the galaxy, judging by the planet descriptions we see. The entire setting feels way more dominated by humanity than it should be; lorewise, they should be a distant fourth partner in the whole Council setup and probably still less common on the galactic scene than, say, volus and elcor. It's to avoid things like this that I'd prefer to not include humans in the next game.

This is where I think the writing is shoddy. Javik mentions how they
have guided the Asari and how they have gained their superiority through
Prothean tech.  I find it hard to believe that they knew nothing at all
about the very thing the Protheans have been sending their warning
messages about.   But other than that, even if what you wrote Is the
case, it doesn't change the fact the the Asari councilor knew it could
help and still sat on it.

She didn't know.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 18 octobre 2013 - 03:11 .

[eyezonlyii]

After reading the last few pages I just want to add my little voice to the mix, so here goes:

1. I would not play an ME game without humans. This is not because I'm anti alien, but for the simple fact that I am human. I want to relate to a character, and given the choice, a human character is preferable to me, especially in a setting like this. Obviously, there are games when one cannot be human, and I still play those, but to me a theme of Mass Effect, is the fact that humanity is trying to find it's place in the final frontier. To paraphrase Kaidan in ME1, we finally get to the stars and everyone else is already here, bored with the view.

2. I do agree that humanity spread WAY too quickly/is WAY too powerful for being on the scene for <30 years. For instance, how in the world did we get Berkenstien? It's in the same system as the Citadel! Did the council just look at the pretty view and decide not to go there?

3. I still blame the Asari for keeping the beacon. After ME1, it should have been clear that Shepard can interact with these things. I would think in the interest of at least scientific curiosity, s/he would be invited to study the beacon in secret, which I guess would have confirmed some suspicions of Reapers, and then a whole different idiot ball wold need to be given to hamstring everybody...but I digress.

4. I Udina! Husbando 4 lyfe!. Well not to that degree, but I feel like he did the best he could with what he had. My Paragon Shep was only mad at him for trying to pull the Coup, especially in a time of war when wwe should all be trying to band together against an overwhelming force.

[Barquiel]

Hazegurl wrote...
I said aid not a full retaking of Earth. Everybody else was asking for aid so why is it such a huge crime for Earth to ask for aid too? Why is it okay for Liara to talk crap about Earth not giving her planet air support when Earth was hit early and harder? Mind you she cops this attitude while we are sent on a late mission to retrieve tech the Asari have been holding onto preME1.

What exactly do you expect? Sending any ships/troops to attack the reaper forces on Earth would be suicide. And even if Tevos or Valern was to say "All Asari/Salarian forces, go die on Earth!", the matriarchs/dalatrass would never have agreed to such a plan. The councillors are little more than ambassadors appointed by their respective governments (the Asari councilor is elected), and so they would only do what their governments want. Not to mention that we know asari forces did help to evacuate human colonies at the beginning of the war. And Liara does the same as Shepard on Palavan...it seems that you have no problem with Shepard acting like everyone else should care about Earth while their own homeworlds are burning.

Hazegurl wrote...
This is where I think the writing is shoddy. Javik mentions how they have guided the Asari and how they have gained their superiority through Prothean tech.  I find it hard to believe that they knew nothing at all about the very thing the Protheans have been sending their warning messages about.   But other than that, even if what you wrote Is the case, it doesn't change the fact the the Asari councilor knew it could help and still sat on it.

This is all laid out in dialog. No inference, just statements (Vendetta on Thessia and Cronos Station, Shepard's squad, EDI and Liara after the mission). There is also Benezia. She knew about the beacon, but nothing about the Reapers. Yes, it's stupid (Does everyone in ME3 hold the idiot ball or something?), but that's the story. And the asari councilor didn't knew anything before the matriarchs informed her after Tuchanka. Now that  does make sense. The Asari councilor is the sole elected official of the Republics and it would be too risky for the matriarchs on Thessia to inform the councilor everytime the Asari vote someone new into office.

Edit...
As for playing a ME game without humans...I'd prefer a sequel, but an alien protagonist (or at least the option to play an asari, salarian or turian). Following the age old trope of "humans are special" is old, boring, and doesn't make any sense in the ME universe.

Modifié par Barquiel, 18 octobre 2013 - 05:24 .

[Han Shot First]

Hazegurl wrote...

Besides, if Liara was such a powerful combat specialist then why did she opt to secure herself instead of fight? Ashley was fighting, running, and surviving when she was found. Liara was held up in a field with no attempt to fight anyone at all and probably would have died in there if Shepard didn't need her.

Liara was unarmed and not wearing combat armor. She was conducting an archaeological dig on an Alliance planet that should  have been safe, and certainly didn't expect to be attacked by an army of Geth led by a Krogan battlemaster.

Also Liara didn't intentionally lock herself in that field. While it did manage to protect her long enough to be rescued, that was coincidental and not part of the plan. She makes it clear in dialogue with Shepard that she got ensnared in the field accidentally. If you ask her how she got trapped she said she was trying to activate barriers in the Prothean ruins to keep the Geth out, and "must have hit something I wasn't supposed to."

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 octobre 2013 - 05:31 .

[Xilizhra]

As for playing a ME game without humans...I'd prefer a sequel, but an alien protagonist (or at least the option to play an asari, salarian or turian). Following the age old trope of "humans are special" is old, boring, and doesn't make any sense in the ME universe.

I don't think a sequel is viable, considering how heavily the endings diverge. But yes, being able to play a nonhuman protagonist (hint, Dragon Age figured out how to do that again) would be very nice, especially since you can do so in multiplayer.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

For whatever reason, I do like to play other races in a fantasy game. I played elf in DA1 and will do so again in 3. But in sci-fi (or atleast ME), I am actually not interested in playing something other than human.

[Steelcan]

@Barquiel, the Councillor is the sole elected official? I'm sorry, what? The asari are a direct democracy with all officials being voted in being the implication.

You may want to shield her from blame but there is every reason for her to know of it, and no reason for her not to.

[Xilizhra]

StreetMagic wrote...

It wasn't intended to be "humans are special" at first, but just a fun fantasy look into our own future. Hence the astronaut references (Shepard/Aldrin/Grissom/Gagarin) and things like that. Even the Alliance was an offshoot of the all the space programs at first (not the military). It was an extension of our own humble exploratory efforts now. The connection was meant to be personal. Not "special".

And it was still incredibly oversaturated and unbalanced, and it made no sense either way.  I'm not terribly interested in seeing modern-pop-culture-laden-human-societies in space that have no real distinguishing features.

@Barquiel, the Councillor is the sole elected official? I'm sorry,
what? The asari are a direct democracy with all officials being voted
in being the implication.

You may want to shield her from blame but there is every reason for her to know of it, and no reason for her not to.

Well, there's the rather simple reason that if she did know, not revealing it sooner would be stupid, in addition to the fact that she certainly doesn't speak like she'd always known about it.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 18 octobre 2013 - 06:00 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Lizardviking wrote...

For whatever reason, I do like to play other races in a fantasy game. I played elf in DA1 and will do so again in 3. But in sci-fi (or atleast ME), I am actually not interested in playing something other than human.

Funny, exact opposite for me. I'd never play anything but human in DA, but I'd certainly rather play a Quarian or Turian in ME than a human.

[Steelcan]

She doesn't say she didn't know either, and her line "known only to the highest levels of my government". She is the councillor for Christ's sake. I find it hard to believe that she didn't know.

And revealing it sooner would have been smart. So they could help with the Crucible.. I don't begrudge them keeping it hidden in peace time, I'd have done the same.

[jtav]

If I had my preferences, I'd prefer not to have the aliens at all. So not even being able to play humans would be a dealbreaker.

[Barquiel]

Steelcan wrote...

@Barquiel, the Councillor is the sole elected official? I'm sorry, what? The asari are a direct democracy with all officials being voted in being the implication.

You may want to shield her from blame but there is every reason for her to know of it, and no reason for her not to.

It's stated in the ME1 codex. "Aside from their Council representative, the asari have no politicians or elections"

[Xilizhra]

She doesn't say she didn't know either, and her line "known only to the highest levels of my government". She is the councillor for Christ's sake. I find it hard to believe that she didn't know.

She's the representative of the Republics, not one of their direct leaders. Her affiliation is more primarily to the Council, and her knowing is a huge security risk.

If I had my preferences, I'd prefer not to have the aliens at all. So not even being able to play humans would be a dealbreaker.

Why?

[Steelcan]

Barquiel wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Barquiel, the Councillor is the sole elected official? I'm sorry, what? The asari are a direct democracy with all officials being voted in being the implication.

You may want to shield her from blame but there is every reason for her to know of it, and no reason for her not to.

It's stated in the ME1 codex. "Aside from their Council representative, the asari have no politicians or elections"

.  Because all asari are technically able to take part in government.  Which means the "highest levels of our governelment" could be thousands and thousands of people.....

[Xilizhra]

. Because all asari are technically able to take part in government. Which means the "highest levels of our governelment" could be thousands and thousands of people.....

Which would be completely idiotic, so it's going to be the highest levels of the matriarchs who tend to be able to make powerful suggestions.

[Steelcan]

Her knowing would be sensible, she needs to know what asari strengths and weaknesses are when negotiating.

And how is telling her a huge security risk? I mean she might be Aria's puppet but its not like she would be elected if she was a known security risk.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

. Because all asari are technically able to take part in government. Which means the "highest levels of our governelment" could be thousands and thousands of people.....

Which would be completely idiotic, so it's going to be the highest levels of the matriarchs who tend to be able to make powerful suggestions.

.  Yet that little cadre is open to millions of people at least.