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[rashie]

Steelcan wrote...

rashie wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I fail to see why the Councillor is not part of the highest levels of government.

Someone elected to hold a seat in the UN for their country do not necessarily have access to every single absolute top level government secret. If we where to draw a analogy i think this is the case with Tevos as well.

So speculation? 

Everything that goes beyond Tevos just stating that the top of her government hid it is speculation, even those claiming she knew is just speculating.

[eyezonlyii]

StreetMagic wrote...

I'm kind of curious how long the Protheans live for. Why did they pick the Asari to carry the baton.. their long lifespan turned out to be un-ideal for others. Or maybe they wanted to set them up as imperial types, much like the Protheans..they'd have both brutality and longevity.  But then, maybe the Asari developed a more friendly culture on their own. Couple that with extreme patience, and you get nothing done but a lot of talk and drawn out diplomacy.

edit: And lots of ass shaking. Lets not forget that.

I was JUST thinking along these lines. That is the reason I don't like the Asari (as a concept), and by extension, Liara: they are perfect (as a concept).
1. They have the longest lifespans, so can out live any potential problem
2. They're naturally biotic, a "condition" that is extremely rare, with the ingredients necessary to create this said condition in other species (humans for sure, more than likely other species as well), being lethal to the vast majority of the populace.
3. They have the most utopian society (everyone has a chance to participate), with no shown drawbacks
4. They (as a culture) are at the pinnicale of all forms of civilization: military, economoic, industrial. 

Put simply, there is nothing negative about them, they don't have to work (as a society) to better themselves, because...why?

And this I feel bleeds into Liara as a character. Someone earlier already listed the AND's that she had. SO while not every Asai lives up to the list above, Liara does and she takes the apex tier of the Asari to a whole new personal level.

[Steelcan]

rashie wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

rashie wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I fail to see why the Councillor is not part of the highest levels of government.

Someone elected to hold a seat in the UN for their country do not necessarily have access to every single absolute top level government secret. If we where to draw a analogy i think this is the case with Tevos as well.

So speculation? 

Everything that goes beyond Tevos just stating that the top of her government hid it is speculation, even those claiming she knew is just speculating.

Yep, I never said it wasn't

[Steelcan]

eyezonlyii wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I'm kind of curious how long the Protheans live for. Why did they pick the Asari to carry the baton.. their long lifespan turned out to be un-ideal for others. Or maybe they wanted to set them up as imperial types, much like the Protheans..they'd have both brutality and longevity.  But then, maybe the Asari developed a more friendly culture on their own. Couple that with extreme patience, and you get nothing done but a lot of talk and drawn out diplomacy.

edit: And lots of ass shaking. Lets not forget that.

I was JUST thinking along these lines. That is the reason I don't like the Asari (as a concept), and by extension, Liara: they are perfect (as a concept).
1. They have the longest lifespans, so can out live any potential problem
2. They're naturally biotic, a "condition" that is extremely rare, with the ingredients necessary to create this said condition in other species (humans for sure, more than likely other species as well), being lethal to the vast majority of the populace.
3. They have the most utopian society (everyone has a chance to participate), with no shown drawbacks
4. They (as a culture) are at the pinnicale of all forms of civilization: military, economoic, industrial. 

Put simply, there is nothing negative about them, they don't have to work (as a society) to better themselves, because...why?

And this I feel bleeds into Liara as a character. Someone earlier already listed the AND's that she had. SO while not every Asai lives up to the list above, Liara does and she takes the apex tier of the Asari to a whole new personal level.

plus thinly veiled ****** material is thinly veiled

[eyezonlyii]

5. They are able to reproduce with ANY species (though always resulting in an Asari) and are actually found attractive by EVERY species we encounter.

EDIT: 'd by steelcan...

Modifié par eyezonlyii, 18 octobre 2013 - 07:15 .

[Br3admax]

Steelcan wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

jtav wrote...

Whether the councilor knew before she told Shepard is a bit beside the point. Hiding the beacon is a conspiracy that has gone on for three thousand years and is a collective stain akin to the Morning War or genophage regardless of the culpability of an individual. I hope they're sanctioned back to the Stone Age, never to rise again.

This is utterly idiotic and I'm surprised that you of all people are advocating this. It has nothing to do with the vast majority of their population throughout their entire history.

The ending slides directly contradict this nonsense anyway.

The endingl slides only show Samara and Falere if you spared them, it shows nothing of the actual state of Thessia.

That said Jtav is taking it farther than I would.

I'd settle for mild sanctions, the forfiture of all prothean technology, and the other races being informed.  I might strip them of their vote in the Council for a while.

Honestly I never expected anyone to share their secrets with everyone. It's not something that any smart government would do. We always look for the edge. I'm more angry about her not bringing it up as soon as Earth was hit, as soon as the Reapers entered the Milky Way. All of the cards should have been on the table then. 

[Dextro Milk]

The Asari government is just as bad as any other government in Mass Effect... or in real life.

[eyezonlyii]

Dextro Milk wrote...

The Asari government is just as bad as any other government in Mass Effect... or in real life.

problem is, we're never shown this. Turians you see on Palaven, Salarians, the Dalatrass (as aweful as the writing for that was, it was there), humans...well duh, but the Asari, don't really have a central government so there really is no one to shift blame to when something goes wrong, except the matriarchs I guess, who don't hold power...I don't know where to go with this.

[Barquiel]

The ending slides show Samara/Falere on Thessia, Samara on Illium, Asari working together with the other races to repair some relay (destroy) and asari ships as part of the new council fleet. That doesn't look like stone age to me. And Jtav's suggestion is simply disgusting. Assuming the issue comes out, put the matriarchs who knew on trial for hiding prothean tech, share the technology ofc...maybe some mild sanctions. But I am not sure if that makes sense because you would punish the whole galaxy. Everyone is rebuilding and every race needs thessian eezo, raw materials, etc.

Modifié par Barquiel, 18 octobre 2013 - 07:33 .

[DuskWanderer]

 In regards to the asari and the beacon on Thessia, while I agree that the Catalyst could not have been learned about through it, it is utterly absurd, and in fact, wrong, to state that the asari learned nothing from it. If you want proof, choose the "explains asari superiority" center-left option when you first discover the beacon. Shepard (and your third party member, regardless of who it is) spells it out clear as crystal that the asari knew about the beacon for millenia, which meant millenia to discover it's secrets. A secret cracked from the beacon every once in a while would assure the asari stayed on top. 

This is spelled out clear as day: Javik provides some flavor text, but everyone can see it. 


Also, for those who say the asari were in the right to hide the beacon because they thought nothing could be gained from it, look at everything else the galaxy is using to build the Cruicble. You've got translation aides from Prothean Spheres, Hesperia period asari statues with Prothean writing. They knew this thing was Prothean, and they didn't turn it over. More to the point, why wouldn't High Command turn it over? They didn't want their secret to get out, that they hid Prothean tech from the galaxy for millenia (a law they themselves created, that Prothean tech must be shared and hoarding it is a crime). Like it or not, High Command knew about that beacon, knew they were doing wrong, and did it anyway. 

As for sending fleets to Earth...Shepard is right, the galaxy needs to stand together or else they'll be divided and get conquered. At the point when Shepard asks for aid, neither Thessia nor Sur'Kesh are under attack by Reapers. Only Palaven and Earth are under attack. The asari then choose to sit out of a summit, and only come to Shepard first when the Citadel is about to fall, and then again when their own world is about to fall. They emphasize, more than anything, their ethnocentric mindset. It's Ashley's racism comment proven to be true. 

[eyezonlyii]

DuskWanderer wrote...

 In regards to the asari and the beacon on Thessia, while I agree that the Catalyst could not have been learned about through it, it is utterly absurd, and in fact, wrong, to state that the asari learned nothing from it. If you want proof, choose the "explains asari superiority" center-left option when you first discover the beacon. Shepard (and your third party member, regardless of who it is) spells it out clear as crystal that the asari knew about the beacon for millenia, which meant millenia to discover it's secrets. A secret cracked from the beacon every once in a while would assure the asari stayed on top. 

This is spelled out clear as day: Javik provides some flavor text, but everyone can see it. 


Also, for those who say the asari were in the right to hide the beacon because they thought nothing could be gained from it, look at everything else the galaxy is using to build the Cruicble. You've got translation aides from Prothean Spheres, Hesperia period asari statues with Prothean writing. They knew this thing was Prothean, and they didn't turn it over. More to the point, why wouldn't High Command turn it over? They didn't want their secret to get out, that they hid Prothean tech from the galaxy for millenia (a law they themselves created, that Prothean tech must be shared and hoarding it is a crime). Like it or not, High Command knew about that beacon, knew they were doing wrong, and did it anyway. 

these parts sent my shepard into a rage, but out of respect for seeing Liara's homewold burning to the ground, he didn't say anything.

[KaiserShep]

I kinda wish I could've joined in on Joker's comments about having less dancers and more commandos.

[Xilizhra]

In regards to the asari and the beacon on Thessia, while I agree that the Catalyst could not have been learned about through it, it is utterly absurd, and in fact, wrong, to state that the asari learned nothing from it. If you want proof, choose the "explains asari superiority" center-left option when you first discover the beacon. Shepard (and your third party member, regardless of who it is) spells it out clear as crystal that the asari knew about the beacon for millenia, which meant millenia to discover it's secrets. A secret cracked from the beacon every once in a while would assure the asari stayed on top.

They surmise it. Given that the asari didn't have the Cipher, I find it somewhat unlikely that they were able to get much out of it, especially since the main purpose of every single beacon that we know of was to warn future cycles about the Reapers (hence their being, well, beacons).

Also, for those who say the asari were in the right to hide the beacon because they thought nothing could be gained from it, look at everything else the galaxy is using to build the Cruicble. You've got translation aides from Prothean Spheres, Hesperia period asari statues with Prothean writing. They knew this thing was Prothean, and they didn't turn it over. More to the point, why wouldn't High Command turn it over? They didn't want their secret to get out, that they hid Prothean tech from the galaxy for millenia (a law they themselves created, that Prothean tech must be shared and hoarding it is a crime). Like it or not, High Command knew about that beacon, knew they were doing wrong, and did it anyway.

Actually, the Council created the law; I don't know whether or not the asari leadership cabal was involved in writing it.

As for sending fleets to Earth...Shepard is right, the galaxy needs to stand together or else they'll be divided and get conquered. At the point when Shepard asks for aid, neither Thessia nor Sur'Kesh are under attack by Reapers. Only Palaven and Earth are under attack. The asari then choose to sit out of a summit, and only come to Shepard first when the Citadel is about to fall, and then again when their own world is about to fall. They emphasize, more than anything, their ethnocentric mindset. It's Ashley's racism comment proven to be true.

So, pretty much exactly like everyone else. The only races that attend the summit are the ones already under direct Reaper attack, and one that couldn't afford to pass up negotiations involving their old archenemy possibly going behind their backs. This says nothing about anyone's character being better than anyone else's.

I kinda wish I could've joined in on Joker's comments about having less dancers and more commandos.

And I will never lament a missed opportunity to revel in genocide.

[KaiserShep]

There's a difference between reveling in genocide and seriously blaming their government for what happened, because it is their fault.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 19 octobre 2013 - 01:45 .

[Xilizhra]

KaiserShep wrote...

There's a difference between reveling in genocide and seriously blaming their government for what happened, because it is their fault.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Joker's (blatantly racist as well as just in general bad taste) comment.

[KaiserShep]

The best part is that even other asari have made similar statements, like Athyeta.

[Xilizhra]

KaiserShep wrote...

The best part is that even other asari have made similar statements, like Athyeta.

This is roughly similar to N-word privileges.

[Br3admax]

No. First of all, as a black person, I find the N-word offensive no matter who it comes from, may it be you or my mother. Second, there is no such thing as N-word privileges. That's some of the dumbest sh*t I have ever heard.

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

No. First of all, as a black person, I find the N-word offensive no matter who it comes from, may it be you or my mother. Second, there is no such thing as N-word privileges. That's some of the dumbest sh*t I have ever heard.

It's not my term. And feel free to call Aethyta racist as well if that's your standard, which is a reasonable stance to have.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

There's a difference between reveling in genocide and seriously blaming their government for what happened, because it is their fault.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Joker's (blatantly racist as well as just in general bad taste) comment.

I thought it was funny

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

There's a difference between reveling in genocide and seriously blaming their government for what happened, because it is their fault.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Joker's (blatantly racist as well as just in general bad taste) comment.

I thought it was funny

I am hardly surprised.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

In regards to the asari and the beacon on Thessia, while I agree that the Catalyst could not have been learned about through it, it is utterly absurd, and in fact, wrong, to state that the asari learned nothing from it. If you want proof, choose the "explains asari superiority" center-left option when you first discover the beacon. Shepard (and your third party member, regardless of who it is) spells it out clear as crystal that the asari knew about the beacon for millenia, which meant millenia to discover it's secrets. A secret cracked from the beacon every once in a while would assure the asari stayed on top.

They surmise it. Given that the asari didn't have the Cipher, I find it somewhat unlikely that they were able to get much out of it, especially since the main purpose of every single beacon that we know of was to warn future cycles about the Reapers (hence their being, well, beacons).

When even Liara says that she could have learned from it without the Cipher I'm willing to guess actually intelligent scientists could learn a whole lot.

The Cipher is not a prerequisite for understanding Prothean tech, or humanity would still be stuck in Sol.

[Seboist]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

There's a difference between reveling in genocide and seriously blaming their government for what happened, because it is their fault.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Joker's (blatantly racist as well as just in general bad taste) comment.

I thought it was funny

+1

I normally hate Joker but I wish there was an option to support him with that.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

There's a difference between reveling in genocide and seriously blaming their government for what happened, because it is their fault.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Joker's (blatantly racist as well as just in general bad taste) comment.

I thought it was funny

I am hardly surprised.

Came out of left field didn't that

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In regards to the asari and the beacon on Thessia, while I agree that the Catalyst could not have been learned about through it, it is utterly absurd, and in fact, wrong, to state that the asari learned nothing from it. If you want proof, choose the "explains asari superiority" center-left option when you first discover the beacon. Shepard (and your third party member, regardless of who it is) spells it out clear as crystal that the asari knew about the beacon for millenia, which meant millenia to discover it's secrets. A secret cracked from the beacon every once in a while would assure the asari stayed on top.

They surmise it. Given that the asari didn't have the Cipher, I find it somewhat unlikely that they were able to get much out of it, especially since the main purpose of every single beacon that we know of was to warn future cycles about the Reapers (hence their being, well, beacons).

When even Liara says that she could have learned from it without the Cipher I'm willing to guess actually intelligent scientists could learn a whole lot.

The Cipher is not a prerequisite for understanding Prothean tech, or humanity would still be stuck in Sol.

It was a prerequisite for getting the beacon's main reason for existing working, as we can clearly see in the scene itself. Whether anything else is on there is purely conjectural.