194 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

egnit wrote...

Agreed. Its a poor phrasing of adjectives all describing the Qunari. Militant isn't describing muslims any more then it is describing the borg. The Qunari are being described as being militant (which they are given their join us one way or the other attitude), as being like the borg (as I'm not a Star Trek guy I assume this is a nod to their collectivism culture), and lastly as being like muslims (in reference to their geopolitical position within the world of Thedas. Strange people and alien culture invading with superior technoology, like the Ottoman Turks as has been said a million times already.)

As I understand it, the Borg are a bunch of cyborgs without individuality serving the whole without question.  Everyone the Borg encounter are forcibly assimilated.  I'm not an expert on it though.

[Heimdall]

Qistina wrote...
So, if a resistance army defending their land and country, cover their face and carrying Arabic letters on their flag or mafela, shouting "Jihad!!"...are they "Militant Islam" in your understanding? When you see the image you say "they are "militant Islam"" while maybe they just protecting their family, land and country

How do you know militant or not militant if you don't know what Islam is? Who are you to label something you yourself don't know about?

I am not bringing religious or sensitive issue here, i just want to give understanding or light in the issue. It is ignorance that lead to confusion, and make it become sensitive. Ignorance that lead to injustice, ignorance lead to lies, ignorance lead to hatred. Ignorance is the core of evil today.

It is maybe mean nothing to you, just create a character, devilish look, carrying guns, and say "this character is based on "Militant XXX"...for you it's nothing, but XXX will question you and your intention...

That is all i want to say...

As others have said, its a poor choice of words, but if someone said what you described were militant Christians I doubt I'd bat an eye.  Its a well traveled path in fiction.  That said, I don't appreciate your assertion that I know nothing about Islam.

The only confusion I've seen in this thread is you.  Nobody is labeling all of Islam militant, though there are militant offshoots of virtually every major creed and religion in history, and you're the only one that thinks the Qunari are satanic.  Everyone else is just pointing out the obvious geopolitical historical similarities. 

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 04 octobre 2013 - 06:45 .

[Boycott Bioware]

I am arguing about "why" and the writer intention. The cause on saying Qunari is combination of "Militant Islam", "Borg" and Ottoman Turk"...i believe it is all based on false images and propagandas, if not then there is no such reference to "Militant Islam" because the thing doesn't exist.

I am talking about the portrayal of Islam, Muslim, and Turk...not about Islam, Muslim and Turk, if you understand what i mean. The thing in the mind either Gaider "just say it" but then everyone have to cover it or "really mean it" and Qunari is represent what he said

I believe it is originally a joke, a mockery but it become serious, action taken to cover the mess and reduce damage. "Militant Islam and Borg" is not serious in tone I believe, but because damage have been done, Bioware must search for justification and so "Qunari is like Ottoman Turk because they have high technology having cannons and ships not like Europe" in which it is BS...Ottoman Turk not only the one who have cannons and ships in their golden age...Spain have the largest armada, even sail to America and Japan before anyone else...just ask this question "Ottoman rise before the fall of Granada or after?" then you got how BS it is

If it is intentionally, then it is intentionally, it is not like it can change anything, it is a common sentiment, old sentiment...but if it is just a cover up because of a joke and mockery, then i am disappointed. Really, I don't care if Muslim and Islam portrayed like whatever, because we are what we are either you like it or not, and we share the same planet.....

[Heimdall]

Qistina wrote...
I am arguing about "why" and the writer intention. The cause on saying Qunari is combination of "Militant Islam", "Borg" and Ottoman Turk"...i believe it is all based on false images and propagandas, if not then there is no such reference to "Militant Islam" because the thing doesn't exist.

Islam spent the first few centuries of its existence as a series of expansionist empires(The idea that Islam has never driven military action is as laughable as claiming Christianity never motivated the Crusades, whether or not you consider such things a legitimate form of Islam is immaterial).  That is what Gaider was referring to, the empires that constantly butted against European powers throughout the Middle Ages, had more advanced sciences at many points, and were feared, hated, and not entirely understood by the population of Europe.

I am talking about the portrayal of Islam, Muslim, and Turk...not about Islam, Muslim and Turk, if you understand what i mean. The thing in the mind either Gaider "just say it" but then everyone have to cover it or "really mean it" and Qunari is represent what he said

And this is what you utterly fail to grasp.  Islam, Muslims, and Turks are not portrayed at all.  You really need to learn the difference between a conceptual inspiration and an allegory.

If it is intentionally, then it is intentionally, it is not like it can change anything, it is a common sentiment, old sentiment...but if it is just a cover up because of a joke and mockery, then i am disappointed. Really, I don't care if Muslim and Islam portrayed like whatever, because we are what we are either you like it or not, and we share the same planet.....

I honestly don't understand a word of this, save that you've gotten it into your head that Bioware hates Muslims.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 05 octobre 2013 - 12:33 .

[animedreamer]

Dayze wrote...

One of the things that has been mentioned is that the Qunari have higher levels of technology.

 Well; I know they have cannon's and gunpowder or whatever but that doesn't mean they are a higher level technology as a whole.

I mean; their boats are basically the same aren't they?

Their armor is like what, a helmet, leather pants and shoulder guards?  I would say most other groups are notably ahead of them in that department.  

Weapons, they had axes and stuff but it seemed like a lot if them were using primitive looking spears in DA2....not only that but most of them basically didn't have armor, the grunts I mean.

Sten's vanguard brothers and presumably Sten himself all wore heavy armor if not massive armor, what the Arishok wore may have more to do with the weather as it may have been warming in the Free Marches year round than in Ferelden where we know its cold and muddy.

Modifié par animedreamer, 05 octobre 2013 - 01:13 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Islam spent the first few centuries of its existence as a series of expansionist empires(The idea that Islam has never driven military action is as laughable as claiming Christianity never motivated the Crusades, whether or not you consider such things a legitimate form of Islam is immaterial). That is what Gaider was referring to, the empires that constantly butted against European powers throughout the Middle Ages, had more advanced sciences at many points, and were feared, hated, and not entirely understood by the population of Europe.

Wrong, Middle East was under Byzantium-Roman empire that was Christian, it was politic and not religion. The Arabs taken lands in Middle East mostly without war, the populace who agree to become Arab protectorate. Jerusalem was handed to Muslim WITHOUT WAR in Umar Al Khatab time. Because of many Byzantium protectorates changing alliance, they sent armies and wars happen.

But as usual, propaganda always work, and historians are biased, they talk about religion while it is political. Arab-Muslim was a new kingdom in east, fragile, open to threats, Arab-Muslims need to protect this new kingdom by secure alliances with Middle Easterners.

Another threat is from Persia, similar thing Arabs doing, liberate Middle Eastern from Persian hold. Both Byzantium and Persia want to crush this new liberated kingdom of Arabia, because they see them as a threat.

Byzantium and Persia was two big empires and have war with each other and are expansionists....Islam is expansionist and militant? That is laughable...that is why i say a resistance army or liberation army who protect their family, land and country shouting "Jihad", is that militant Islam to you?

Say what you want about Islam and Muslims, you are not free from being bias

[drome34]

Qistina wrote...

Islam spent the first few centuries of its existence as a series of expansionist empires(The idea that Islam has never driven military action is as laughable as claiming Christianity never motivated the Crusades, whether or not you consider such things a legitimate form of Islam is immaterial). That is what Gaider was referring to, the empires that constantly butted against European powers throughout the Middle Ages, had more advanced sciences at many points, and were feared, hated, and not entirely understood by the population of Europe.

Wrong, Middle East was under Byzantium-Roman empire that was Christian, it was politic and not religion. The Arabs taken lands in Middle East mostly without war, the populace who agree to become Arab protectorate. Jerusalem was handed to Muslim WITHOUT WAR in Umar Al Khatab time. Because of many Byzantium protectorates changing alliance, they sent armies and wars happen.

But as usual, propaganda always work, and historians are biased, they talk about religion while it is political. Arab-Muslim was a new kingdom in east, fragile, open to threats, Arab-Muslims need to protect this new kingdom by secure alliances with Middle Easterners.

Another threat is from Persia, similar thing Arabs doing, liberate Middle Eastern from Persian hold. Both Byzantium and Persia want to crush this new liberated kingdom of Arabia, because they see them as a threat.

Byzantium and Persia was two big empires and have war with each other and are expansionists....Islam is expansionist and militant? That is laughable...that is why i say a resistance army or liberation army who protect their family, land and country shouting "Jihad", is that militant Islam to you?

Say what you want about Islam and Muslims, you are not free from being bias

Jump to about 33 minutes into the video to recive answer to why people are afraid of Islam.

[Boycott Bioware]

drome34 wrote...
Jump to about 33 minutes into the video to recive answer to why people are afraid of Islam.

Watch this and the whole series if you want to...

[Vit246]

Oh for the love of god people DROP THE ISSUE OR THE THREAD GETS LOCKED FOR OFF-TOPIC.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Vit246 wrote...

Oh for the love of god people DROP THE ISSUE OR THE THREAD GETS LOCKED FOR OFF-TOPIC.

I'm also reasonably sure Real-World politics is a no-go on this forum. (Not that I'm the right person to point this out.)

[Afro_Explosion]

Any chance of getting back to the thread title any time soon

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

MasterScribe wrote...

Specifically, where is it mentioned that they have higher levels of technology?

They are mentioned in the Codex as having cannons, and this is noted as unique. Mary Kirby also asserted on the forums that the Qunari live longer, not because they have better genes for this but because they have medicine and sanitation that more closely resemble modern methods.

[Boycott Bioware]

Vit246 wrote...
Oh for the love of god people DROP THE ISSUE OR THE THREAD GETS LOCKED FOR OFF-TOPIC.

My whole point is Qunari is not Islam/Militant Islam, not Muslim and not Ottoman Turk no matter how want to justify it either by their character, their lore, their religion, their technological superiority or whatever

I just respond on that, is it wrong if i want to respond?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

MasterScribe wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Specifically, where is it mentioned that they have higher levels of technology?

They are mentioned in the Codex as having cannons, and this is noted as unique. Mary Kirby also asserted on the forums that the Qunari live longer, not because they have better genes for this but because they have medicine and sanitation that more closely resemble modern methods.

Ah, yes.

I guess the Qun is good for something, though I have no doubt many people died for that progress.

Or worse.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Qistina wrote...

Vit246 wrote...
Oh for the love of god people DROP THE ISSUE OR THE THREAD GETS LOCKED FOR OFF-TOPIC.

My whole point is Qunari is not Islam/Militant Islam, not Muslim and not Ottoman Turk no matter how want to justify it either by their character, their lore, their religion, their technological superiority or whatever

I just respond on that, is it wrong if i want to respond?

Even if I agreed with you on your basic point, it would still be wrong given that this forum is the wrong venue for the discussion this gets into.

[Boycott Bioware]

So, when someone say "Qunari is similar with Ottoman Turk because they have superior technology", then i can't respond "they are not similar to Ottoman Turk"?

It is like you guys can say anything using the "freedom of speech" but only you guys have that freedom

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Qistina wrote...

So, when someone say "Qunari is similar with Ottoman Turk because they have superior technology", then i can't respond "they are not similar to Ottoman Turk"?

It is like you guys can say anything using the "freedom of speech" but only you guys have that freedom

Except that the objection I'm giving is that this is the wrong place for that discussion for several reasons. By all means let's have this discussion (assuming we can rationally listen to each other's points), if we can find someplace to do it where its not off-limits.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 06 octobre 2013 - 04:04 .