141 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Raijin]

I'm on my second game play in Dragon
Age Origins and what really frustrates me over this game is that a
potential strong character like Jowan could've very well be the
perfect candidate for becoming a Grey Warden, especially slight in
the fact of his blood mage status. You have a mage who made some poor mistakes of practicing the forbidden art of Blood magic, and desperately wanted to reform himself by doing the right thing. The Perfect companion, and the perfect mentality of a Grey warden.



On this thread DLC Idea: Recruit Jowan
David Gaider confirmed that Jowan was orgrinally going to be part of the wardens group, but because they didn't have room for this charecter they decided to cut this potentially great charecter out of the game. This is ridiculous. If you create a charecter that has the potentials, add them to the game as a companion. If theirs no room for them then make room. If you could make room by adding a stone golem as a full companion then you can certainly make room for charecters like Jowan that actually makes a difference, and has the capability of spicing up the story by indicating that not all blood mages are evil and do evil things.

Please don't make another Jowan mistake, BioWare.

[BlueMagitek]

Well you already *get* Wynne as your Circle Mage representative, and Jowan's entire claim was that he's only in the blood mage for the additional power boost it gives to his normal magic, not the actual Tremere type shenanigans.

I mean, you could make the same argument about another point of view ("A Carta Dwarf!" or "A Dalish Hunter!") that about most of the supporting characters you had from the Origins as well.

[Zanallen]

Jowan was originally going to be a temporary party member and then they thought they might make him a full party member, but then realized that the party was already fairly hefty and cut him. The difference between him and Shale is that Shale's VO work was largely already done while Jowan's wasn't even started.

[AresKeith]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sounds awfully one-sided.

Look who the OP is

Anyways, pfft lol Jowan

[Thomas Andresen]

Jowan was an idiot anyway.

[Steelcan]

lol

[Drasanil]

Great Character? Jowan was a whiny dullard and a complete tool, the only mistake Bioware made with regards to him was that they didn't let you kill him off in the Origin. Would have been awesome to have the option of simply running over to Gregoire and get him sorted the moment he tried to ask for your help.

[Vit246]

We already have Vivienne. Stop rehashing characters. Jowan is over anyway. Either dead or helping people.

[Laughing_Man]

Yes.
If you have an interesting companion, no matter what his class or past is, don't throw him away if you can help it.
I will gladly suffer an "extra" class rep, than lose an interesting companion.

[Lord Raijin]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Jowan was an idiot anyway.

Wynne is a hypocrite who disapproves of blood magic yet it's ok for her to become possessed by a spirit, and we wand up getting stuck with her.

[Twofold Black]

Lord Raijin wrote...
 
If you create a charecter that has the potentials, add them to the game as a companion. If theirs no room for them then make room. If you could make room by adding a stone golem as a full companion then you can certainly make room for charecters like Jowan that actually makes a difference, and has the capability of spicing up the story by indicating that not all blood mages are evil and do evil things.

These games aren't made with an infinitely large budget or on an infinitely long timetable; there's a point at which the devs have to prune. Apparently they thought Shale (and everyone else in the party) had more to offer, either narratively or mechanically, than Jowan. If you want every character who might be an interesting follower to be recruitable -- we're talking about at least a couple of dozen characters on DA:O alone. This is an absolutely staggering amount of conditionals to write, dialogue to record, etc. That's just clearly never going to happen. I suppose another way to satisfy you would be for all NPCs to be boring, but I don't think that's going to happen either.

[ScarMK]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Jowan was an idiot anyway.

Wynne is a hypocrite who disapproves of blood magic yet it's ok for her to become possessed by a spirit, and we wand up getting stuck with her.

I really don't think Wynne was exactly "willing" when that happened.  Y'know, being dead and all.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Drasanil wrote...

Great Character? Jowan was a whiny dullard and a complete tool, the only mistake Bioware made with regards to him was that they didn't let you kill him off in the Origin. Would have been awesome to have the option of simply running over to Gregoire and get him sorted the moment he tried to ask for your help.

You make him tranquil, isn't that enough?

And I thought how they had his story end was rather nice. He helped some refuges against the darkspawn and probably became a successful apostate in fereldan.

Maybe a cameo in inquisition would be good, but I feel there isn't really a pressing need for more jowan, nor an oversight on biowares part.

[Lord Raijin]

ScarMK wrote...

I really don't think Wynne was exactly "willing" when that happened.  Y'know, being dead and all.

Thats not what I heard her saying.

[Silfren]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Jowan was an idiot anyway.

Wynne is a hypocrite who disapproves of blood magic yet it's ok for her to become possessed by a spirit, and we wand up getting stuck with her.

That doesn't make her a hypocrite.  I'm in the camp that says blood magic is merely a tool.  A dangerous one, but not an inherently evil one.  But even if it were, Wynne's position doesn't make her a hypocrite.  There's a world of difference between her situation and her opinion that blood magic is evil.

I also would have liked to see Jowan as a companion, and I don't think he was boring at all.  You can definitely see from his content that he was developed with that in mind at some point.  But I don't think you appreciate that Bioware cut him because they had a creative decision that had to be made and so they did.  It's not as simple as you seem to think that they could have just done it anyway.  The fact that they scrapped their plans should make it obvious to you that no, they couldn't.  

Another NPC I'd have liked to see as a companion is Gilmore.  I gave the Gilore mod a try, but holy crap the voice acting was so horrifically bad I couldn't go on with it.

[Silfren]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

Great Character? Jowan was a whiny dullard and a complete tool, the only mistake Bioware made with regards to him was that they didn't let you kill him off in the Origin. Would have been awesome to have the option of simply running over to Gregoire and get him sorted the moment he tried to ask for your help.

You make him tranquil, isn't that enough?

And I thought how they had his story end was rather nice. He helped some refuges against the darkspawn and probably became a successful apostate in fereldan.

Maybe a cameo in inquisition would be good, but I feel there isn't really a pressing need for more jowan, nor an oversight on biowares part.

People keep saying No on bringing Jowan back, but I'm pretty sure the OP isn't saying they want to see Jowan brought back at all, just that they don't want the same mistake made again of having a half-developed character scrapped rather than brought into the final game.

[Silfren]

Lord Raijin wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

I really don't think Wynne was exactly "willing" when that happened.  Y'know, being dead and all.

Thats not what I heard her saying.

I kind of agree.  Don't remember the dialogue offhand, but I seem to remember that Wynne didn't know what was happening until after it was done.  You seem to be painting a picture that the spirit offered Wynne a choice to be posseessed that she consciously agreed to, but I never got that impression at all.

[Lord Raijin]

Silfren wrote...

That doesn't make her a hypocrite.  I'm in the camp that says blood magic is merely a tool.  A dangerous one, but not an inherently evil one.  But even if it were, Wynne's position doesn't make her a hypocrite.  There's a world of difference between her situation and her opinion that blood magic is evil.

Theirs a deleted cutscene where Wynne confronts her Blood mage warden right in front of First Enchanter Irving and Knight-Commander Greagoir. Bioware removed it because it was game breaking. I find it hypocrical of her to confront the Warden when she she has a lot of skeletons locked inside of her own closet.

The only reason why I bring Wynne along for the ride is for her medic powers.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 01 octobre 2013 - 01:56 .

[Usergnome]

Drasanil wrote...

Great Character? Jowan was a whiny dullard and a complete tool, the only mistake Bioware made with regards to him was that they didn't let you kill him off in the Origin. Would have been awesome to have the option of simply running over to Gregoire and get him sorted the moment he tried to ask for your help.

Well, you can atleast run off to Irving, but he doesn't stop Jowan because he wants to blame Lilly too.

I disagree with the OP, but not strongly. I wouldn't have a huge issue with Jowan being a part member, but I wouldn't look at him and wish he was one. He was whiny, weak, and stupid. And I just disliked him. Besides, he sided with Loghain to poison Eamon, and used Blood Magic to escape the Circle.

He'd be like Oghren for me. Some people love him, but I just don't care for him.

Modifié par Usergnome, 01 octobre 2013 - 02:02 .

[AresKeith]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Silfren wrote...

That doesn't make her a hypocrite.  I'm in the camp that says blood magic is merely a tool.  A dangerous one, but not an inherently evil one.  But even if it were, Wynne's position doesn't make her a hypocrite.  There's a world of difference between her situation and her opinion that blood magic is evil.

Theirs a deleted cutscene where Wynne confronts her Blood mage warden right in front of First Enchanter Irving and Knight-Commander Greagoir. Bioware removed it because it was game breaking. I find it hypocrical of her to confront the Warden when she she has a lot of skeletons locked inside of her own closet.

The only reason why I bring Wynne along for the ride is for her medic powers.

So your calling her a hypocrite over a deleted scene?

Plus the fact that bonding with a spirit is nothing like bonding with a demon

[Silfren]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Silfren wrote...

That doesn't make her a hypocrite.  I'm in the camp that says blood magic is merely a tool.  A dangerous one, but not an inherently evil one.  But even if it were, Wynne's position doesn't make her a hypocrite.  There's a world of difference between her situation and her opinion that blood magic is evil.

Theirs a deleted cutscene where Wynne confronts her Blood mage warden right in front of First Enchanter Irving and Knight-Commander Greagoir. Bioware removed it because it was game breaking. I find it hypocrical of her to confront the Warden when she she has a lot of skeletons locked inside of her own closet.

The only reason why I bring Wynne along for the ride is for her medic powers.

I'm aware of that scene, but it's kind of a stupid thing to bring up, since having been deleted it has no bearing on the canon lore. My point stands.  Wynne's not being a hypocrite because the two situations are not exactly comparable.

Modifié par Silfren, 01 octobre 2013 - 02:05 .

[Reofeir]

You know it could of also been a money thing right now. It could be that they felt in the long run they had two mages (One free, One circle) already and adding a third just for the sake of it might not be worth it. Perhaps he could of been a good character, but many others could of also possibly been good companions too if they decided to add them on. Sometimes you must draw the line.

[Plaintiff]

They have to stop cramming in party members eventually.