141 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

Filament wrote...

Perhaps they should simply not make the mistake of telling us what the cut content was, as we'll always complain without understanding there will always be cut content.

Hey!  I LIKE hearing about the cut content.  I may be disappointed to hear about some potentially great storyline that was scrapped, but I do understand why it has to happen.

I'm one of those people who likes the cut content because of what it says about the direction Bioware wanted to go but couldn't for whatever reason.  Not to mention it's great fodder for fanfiction, given that written A/Us aren't held to the same restrictions.

[Br3admax]

She. Didn't. Have. A . Choice. She. Was. Dead. We keep saying this, but obviously this isn't enough to affect your opinion of a person. As to the earlier statements, people are not possessed by spirits everyday. Justice and Wynne's spirit of Faith are the only examples that come to my mind.

[Thomas Andresen]

I, too, like hearing about cut content, but seeing arguments like this, I'd rather do without ever seeing the cut content.

[Silfren]

Lord Raijin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

So your calling her a hypocrite over a deleted scene?

Plus the fact that bonding with a spirit is nothing like bonding with a demon

I'm calling her a hypocrite because shes against the use of blood magic yet she allows herself to be possessed by a spirit.  This deleted cutscene could very well happen if the scene wasn't game breaking. In fact BioWare was actually reconsidering the option until they realize that gameplay wise it could not happen that way.

And really? Do you think the First Enchanter and the Knight-Commander would give this old woman a pat on the shoulders had I came back to the Circle tower, with her, and told them what she told me?

Silfren wrote...

I'm aware of that scene, but it's kind of
a stupid thing to bring up, since having been deleted it has no bearing
on the canon lore. My point stands.  Wynne's not being a hypocrite
because the two situations are not exactly comparable.

I disagree. It's not stupid to bring it up and I've already explained why on top

No, you haven't explained it.  The deleted scene IS. NOT. CANON.  As far as the official story goes, it does not exist.  Ergo, you can't use it as evidence of anything.  Doesn't matter that it could happen, because woulda coulda shoulda, the fact remains, it didn't.

Modifié par Silfren, 01 octobre 2013 - 03:08 .

[Mr.House]

Pro mages, the only people who use cut content in a argument.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I doubt that.

[Silfren]

Mr.House wrote...

Pro mages, the only people who use cut content in a argument.

Was this really necessary?  Are you trying to derail the discussion?

Modifié par Silfren, 01 octobre 2013 - 03:14 .

[cjones91]

addiction21 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

I did pay attention and I know Justice was becoming attached to the mortal world.However it was Anders' anger and hatred for the Circles and Templars that caused Justice to completely morph into a different entity.

Then you were not paying attention, because justice was already being twisted by a need for vengeance for Kristoff and his wife long before ever becoming attached to Anders.

Anders couldn't even say where he ended and Justice began so how can you say its all Anders anger and hatred? Other then your typical "The chantry and the Templars are at fault for every bad thing that happens in Thedas" rhetoric.

Considering the fact Justice was completely fine before merging with Anders?I'll say they were both f*cked when the merge happened,also I don't know what you're implying with the last part considering Anders himself stated the reason he and Justice teamed up was because of his outrage at the Chantry's treatment of mages.

Modifié par cjones91, 01 octobre 2013 - 03:15 .

[Silfren]

addiction21 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

I did pay attention and I know Justice was becoming attached to the mortal world.However it was Anders' anger and hatred for the Circles and Templars that caused Justice to completely morph into a different entity.

Then you were not paying attention, because justice was already being twisted by a need for vengeance for Kristoff and his wife long before ever becoming attached to Anders.

Anders couldn't even say where he ended and Justice began so how can you say its all Anders anger and hatred? Other then your typical "The chantry and the Templars are at fault for every bad thing that happens in Thedas" rhetoric.

Anders himself says it was his anger and hatred that twisted Justice, and the game bears this out.

Modifié par Silfren, 01 octobre 2013 - 03:16 .

[Br3admax]

Mr.House wrote...

Pro mages, the only people who use cut content in a argument.

Obvious bait, must resist. 

[AresKeith]

cjones91 wrote...

Considering the fact Justice was completely fine before merging with Anders?I'll say they were both f*cked when the merge happened,also I don't know what you're implying with the last part considering Anders himself stated the reason he and Justice teamed up was because of his outrage at the Chantry's treatment of mages.

No he wasn't, he was starting to become corrupted before he even merged with Anders who made him even more corrupted

[Lord Raijin]

Br3ad wrote...

She. Didn't. Have. A . Choice. She. Was. Dead. We keep saying this, but obviously this isn't enough to affect your opinion of a person. As to the earlier statements, people are not possessed by spirits everyday. Justice and Wynne's spirit of Faith are the only examples that come to my mind.

Dead people are not suppose to be walking around. It's just not normal, you see.

[AresKeith]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

She. Didn't. Have. A . Choice. She. Was. Dead. We keep saying this, but obviously this isn't enough to affect your opinion of a person. As to the earlier statements, people are not possessed by spirits everyday. Justice and Wynne's spirit of Faith are the only examples that come to my mind.

Dead people are not suppose to be walking around. It's just not normal, you see.

And how does that counter what he about her not having a choice

Plus no one knew she died, or she told them and they didn't really care

Modifié par AresKeith, 01 octobre 2013 - 03:22 .

[cjones91]

AresKeith wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Considering the fact Justice was completely fine before merging with Anders?I'll say they were both f*cked when the merge happened,also I don't know what you're implying with the last part considering Anders himself stated the reason he and Justice teamed up was because of his outrage at the Chantry's treatment of mages.

No he wasn't, he was starting to become corrupted before he even merged with Anders who made him even more corrupted

He started to desire things of the mortal world sure but can we really say Justice was corrupt at any point in DAA?Did he attack innocents or others for no reason like he did in DA2?The answer is no.

[Thomas Andresen]

Going from "I pity those mortal creatures and their immutable world" to "I'm starting to see why the demons are so interested in this place" does seem like a rather radical change, doesn't it?

[Silfren]

AresKeith wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Considering the fact Justice was completely fine before merging with Anders?I'll say they were both f*cked when the merge happened,also I don't know what you're implying with the last part considering Anders himself stated the reason he and Justice teamed up was because of his outrage at the Chantry's treatment of mages.

No he wasn't, he was starting to become corrupted before he even merged with Anders who made him even more corrupted

What's your proof of this?  Justice was eager for justice for Kristoff, and as a spirit, he embodies the pure ideal of Justice--it is an obsession for him for no other reason than it is the literal embodiment of his existence.  Nothing about it means he was undergoing corruption in Awakening; it's just that justice as an ideological concept can't work well when defined in human terms.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

She. Didn't. Have. A . Choice. She. Was. Dead. We keep saying this, but obviously this isn't enough to affect your opinion of a person. As to the earlier statements, people are not possessed by spirits everyday. Justice and Wynne's spirit of Faith are the only examples that come to my mind.

Dead people are not suppose to be walking around. It's just not normal, you see.

That still doesn't make her a hypocrite. She would if she condemned blood magic, and then secretly pursued and used blood magic herself.

[Silfren]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Going from "I pity those mortal creatures and their immutable world" to "I'm starting to see why the demons are so interested in this place" does seem like a rather radical change, doesn't it?

But isn't it supposed to be part of the lore that all denizens of the Fade are fascinated by the physical world?

[Thomas Andresen]

He started to desire things of the mortal world sure but can we really say Justice was corrupt at any point in DAA?Did he attack innocents or others for no reason like he did in DA2?The answer is no.

Just because you cannot see the reasons, doesn't mean they're not there.

[cjones91]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Going from "I pity those mortal creatures and their immutable world" to "I'm starting to see why the demons are so interested in this place" does seem like a rather radical change, doesn't it?

All Fade beings find the physical world to be fascinating.

Modifié par cjones91, 01 octobre 2013 - 03:27 .

[Silfren]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

She. Didn't. Have. A . Choice. She. Was. Dead. We keep saying this, but obviously this isn't enough to affect your opinion of a person. As to the earlier statements, people are not possessed by spirits everyday. Justice and Wynne's spirit of Faith are the only examples that come to my mind.

Dead people are not suppose to be walking around. It's just not normal, you see.

That still doesn't make her a hypocrite. She would if she condemned blood magic, and then secretly pursued and used blood magic herself.

I don't personally think she was dead and revived by the spirit; rather, I think she was on the brink of death and would have died, but the spirit pulled her back before she went over the tipping point. 

Yes, I know that Wynne says she died.  But that alone doesn't mean she's right, and since we know for a fact that when spirits or demons inhabit dead bodies they don't bring back the dead person's soul, I'm inclined to think she's not.

[cjones91]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

He started to desire things of the mortal world sure but can we really say Justice was corrupt at any point in DAA?Did he attack innocents or others for no reason like he did in DA2?The answer is no.

Just because you cannot see the reasons, doesn't mean they're not there.

So where are the clues that Justice was corrupt in DAA?Name me several scenes where he starts acting more harsh towards people.

[Lord Raijin]

Silfren wrote...
No, you haven't explained it.  The deleted scene IS. NOT. CANON.  As far as the official story goes, it does not exist.  Ergo, you can't use it as evidence of anything.  Doesn't matter that it could happen, because woulda coulda shoulda, the fact remains, it didn't.

Just because it was a deleted scene does not mean that it cannot happen. Seinor Enchanters like Wynne have an obligation to report any suspicious activities of other mages to her superiors. From being possessed by demons to using blood magic. Possession is possession and blood magic is blood magic.

Not one person here has tried to change my mind by using lore in Wynne's defense. Shes an abomination just like Anders.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Silfren wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

She. Didn't. Have. A . Choice. She. Was. Dead. We keep saying this, but obviously this isn't enough to affect your opinion of a person. As to the earlier statements, people are not possessed by spirits everyday. Justice and Wynne's spirit of Faith are the only examples that come to my mind.

Dead people are not suppose to be walking around. It's just not normal, you see.

That still doesn't make her a hypocrite. She would if she condemned blood magic, and then secretly pursued and used blood magic herself.

I don't personally think she was dead and revived by the spirit; rather, I think she was on the brink of death and would have died, but the spirit pulled her back before she went over the tipping point. 

Yes, I know that Wynne says she died.  But that alone doesn't mean she's right, and since we know for a fact that when spirits or demons inhabit dead bodies they don't bring back the dead person's soul, I'm inclined to think she's not.

I am kind of in that camp too, but it still doesn't make her a hypocrite, as the OP is asserting.

[cjones91]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Silfren wrote...
No, you haven't explained it.  The deleted scene IS. NOT. CANON.  As far as the official story goes, it does not exist.  Ergo, you can't use it as evidence of anything.  Doesn't matter that it could happen, because woulda coulda shoulda, the fact remains, it didn't.

Just because it was a deleted scene does not mean that it cannot happen. Seinor Enchanters like Wynne have an obligation to report any suspicious activities of other mages to her superiors. From being possessed by demons to using blood magic. Possession is possession and blood magic is blood magic.

Not one person here has tried to change my mind by using lore in Wynne's defense. Shes an abomination just like Anders.

Not to mention she asks the Warden's opinion on abominations because she was afraid of being one.