419 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

This does not follow. To use an example I've seen put on here, we herd off and butcher cows systematically, that does not mean we are in fear of cows' military prowess.

It does mean you're afraid the cows can hurt you.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

This does not follow. To use an example I've seen put on here, we herd off and butcher cows systematically, that does not mean we are in fear of cows' military prowess.

It does mean you're afraid the cows can hurt you.

Or that herding them off is the most effective way of dealing with them? Seems far more likely than a cow revolution. Your conclusion does not follow.

[DarthSideus2]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Yes, you are being hyperbolic. And nursing a victim complex. You are not being trolled when a path that Bioware spent the greater part of the entire game telling would not work ends up... not working.

WHen they dangle that hope in front of you after a major uproar over the endings, only to be told SO BE IT!  yeah I feel totally justified in being trolled for daring to disagree that the endings are awesome.

When did Bio ever dangle any hope for a successful Refuse  in front of you? Did you really think that Refuse would do anything except what it did?

And  yet this same game showed us that every single race was fighing its own war, looking to their own borders and not cooperating at all.  No wonder they were getting curb-stomped, it almost didn't matter they still had the relay network going..  

Think of what they could do if they pooled thier resources and worked together!

They could...fail together.

What fail? They built and deployed the Crucible. And won. (Unless Shepard was an idiot, of course.)

This!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

iakus wrote...

Necanor wrote...

iakus wrote...

It took FIfth Fleet and a Citadel Fleet (without thanix cannons)  to take down Sovereign and a fleet of Heretics

After Sovereign's shields were disabled. 

Mac Walters tweeted a while back that they would have destroyed Sovereign eventually anyway.  They just would have taken higher casualties than they did.

Yeah, and If the Destiny Ascension had gotten into the act .... one shot = dead Sovereign. Sorry Mac. 

"The Destiny Ascension's main gun has more firepower than the rest of the Asari fleet combined!" -- Joker 

The Asari Fleet had 19 dreadnoughts in it at the time. That means the main gun of the Destiny Ascension had more firepower than 19 dreadnoughts. It shoots through reapers, and the reaper behind that,

That's why you save the Council. Your tactics should be to screen the DA so it could get a shot at Sovereign. Then bye bye Reaper.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 04 octobre 2013 - 12:36 .

[Br3admax]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

iakus wrote...

Necanor wrote...

It took FIfth Fleet and a Citadel Fleet (without thanix cannons)  to take down Sovereign and a fleet of Heretics

After Sovereign's shields were disabled. 

Mac Walters tweeted a while back that they would have destroyed Sovereign eventually anyway.  They just would have taken higher casualties than they did.

Yeah, and If the Destiny Ascension had gotten into the act .... one shot = dead Sovereign. Sorry Mac. 

"The Destiny Ascension's main gun has more firepower than the rest of the Asari fleet combined!" -- Joker 

The Asari Fleet had 19 dreadnoughts in it at the time. That means the main gun of the Destiny Ascension had more firepower than 19 dreadnoughts. It shoots through reapers, and the reaper behind that,

That's why you save the Council. Your tactics should be to screen the DA so it could get a shot at Sovereign. Then bye bye Reaper.

They were lying. It had to be upgraded during the time between ME and ME3. It couldn't have been that great. 

[Excella Gionne]

"My name is Doctor Liara T'Soni. Here in lies our recounting war with the reapers." - Liara

I have to agree that the Destiny's Ascension gun isn't all that powerful until the events between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 3. If the Ascension gun was that powerful, we wouldn't need to go after the Collectors. And plant that gun on all ships, and you got yourself reaper beams...

[Iakus]

Br3ad wrote...

They were lying. It had to be upgraded during the time between ME and ME3. It couldn't have been that great. 

Well, once thanix weapons start becoming standard, of Course the Destiny Ascension's guns will get upgraded too.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Yeah, and If the Destiny Ascension had gotten into the act .... one shot = dead Sovereign. Sorry Mac. 

"The Destiny Ascension's main gun has more firepower than the rest of the Asari fleet combined!" -- Joker 

The Asari Fleet had 19 dreadnoughts in it at the time. That means the main gun of the Destiny Ascension had more firepower than 19 dreadnoughts. It shoots through reapers, and the reaper behind that,

That's why you save the Council. Your tactics should be to screen the DA so it could get a shot at Sovereign. Then bye bye Reaper.

Except that doesn't hapoen, of course. The DA runs away.

An idiotic line anyway; retconned away and deservedly so.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Except that doesn't hapoen, of course. The DA runs away.

An idiotic line anyway; retconned away and deservedly so.

Yeah it's easy to claim Raper invincibility when you retcon out their weaknesses.

[Excella Gionne]

If everyone had thanix cannons, wouldn't that make the galaxy slightly stronger, or are thanix cannons too expensive to make.....?

[Iakus]

johnnythao89 wrote...

If everyone had thanix cannons, wouldn't that make the galaxy slightly stronger, or are thanix cannons too expensive to make.....?

From the ME3 codex:

After the Battle of the Citadel, human and turian volunteers spent three months clearing the station's orbit of debris. During the cleanup, the turians secretly salvaged Sovereign's powerful main gun along with much of the weapon's element zero core. Eleven months later, the turians introduced the Thanix, a scaled-down version of the weapon. The Thanix's core is a liquid alloy of iron, uranium, and tungsten suspended in an electromagnetic field powered by element zero. The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor. The gun can fire reliably every five seconds. The weapon's relatively small size allows it to be mounted on most fighters or frigates. It is now widely used by the Alliance military and is the primary weapon on the refurbished Normandy SR-2. 

[Excella Gionne]

iakus wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

If everyone had thanix cannons, wouldn't that make the galaxy slightly stronger, or are thanix cannons too expensive to make.....?

From the ME3 codex:

After the Battle of the Citadel, human and turian volunteers spent three months clearing the station's orbit of debris. During the cleanup, the turians secretly salvaged Sovereign's powerful main gun along with much of the weapon's element zero core. Eleven months later, the turians introduced the Thanix, a scaled-down version of the weapon. The Thanix's core is a liquid alloy of iron, uranium, and tungsten suspended in an electromagnetic field powered by element zero. The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor. The gun can fire reliably every five seconds. The weapon's relatively small size allows it to be mounted on most fighters or frigates. It is now widely used by the Alliance military and is the primary weapon on the refurbished Normandy SR-2. 

The Ingredients and what is used to make it sounds pretty expensive already. 

[Iakus]

Expensive or not, it is now widely used. And on ships way smaller than dreadnoughts

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Except that doesn't hapoen, of course. The DA runs away.

An idiotic line anyway; retconned away and deservedly so.

Yeah it's easy to claim Raper invincibility when you retcon out their weaknesses.

Reaper weaknesses? Please.

There are two ways the DA could have been super-powerful. One would have been for it to have represented some sort of technological breakthrough (USS Monitor/ CSS Virginia in RL; in SF, among many others, the Boise in E.E. Smith's Triplanetary). The other would have been for it to have been just really, really huge compared to other ships of its era (the GTVA Colossus from Freespace 2, vand various Star Wars ships; AFAIK this doesn't ever work in RL. )

Neither of these are true for the DA, which is big, but not that big, and isn't said to be any sort of technological breakthrough.

(Does anyone seriously think that Bio set up their universe so that the DA was a magic ship that could have one-shotted Sovereign if it had only got a shot off. sH0tgUn jUliA's generally not serious these days, but I can never tell if she's corrupted the minds of other posters)

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 octobre 2013 - 09:32 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...
(Does anyone seriously think that Bio set up their universe so that the DA was a magic ship that could have one-shotted Sovereign if it had only got a shot off. sH0tgUn jUliA's generally not serious these days, but I can never tell if she's corrupted the minds of other posters)

The Destiny Ascension alone?  No, not really.

But Bioware has forgotten that for all the Reaper's strength and age, they are still living creatures (be they synthetic, organic, or a mix of the two).  Not gods.  Immortal doesn't mean invincible.

Always, they have taken down the galaxy piecemeal.  Careful to isolate the galaxy by shutting down the relays.  They take the center of galactic society and gather intel on this cycle's harvest.  They are careful and methodical.  They don't take unnecessary risks.  They're powerful, but they can be hurt, even killed by these organics.  Especially if these mortals can get their hands on the Reapers own weapons. 

And now they have.

Yet despite this, the Citadel and control of the relays mean nothing.  They take on all comers at once (the codex suggets they're even harvesting races we haven't met yet, traveling through previously unexplored relays.)  Caution is for mortals.  They're unafraid to kick the hornets nest and swat each one individually, heedless of the stings. 

So I guess to answer this specifically:  the Destiny Ascension, with thanix weapons sized appropriately for its class, and backed up with proper support, could be a Reaper-killer vessel.  Not the savior of the galaxy, but the backbone of a powerful force.  It certainly shouldn't take a squadron of dreadnoughts to take down one Reaper, now that thanix is the new standard in weaponry.

Modifié par iakus, 04 octobre 2013 - 10:41 .

[RustyLH]

johnnythao89 wrote...

Refusal Ending:
As stupid as the decision to get this ending is, Liara's words are still very touching when I pick it to hear it again. Maybe this could've been the ending for a conventional way of fighting the reapers, because the crucible couldn't be deployed, was destroyed, or couldn't be built based on assets......

What are your opinions?

Yes, I would have preferred that the refussal ending be much like this, but also have it be very similar if you did not complete the Crucible, or didn't get enough war assets.  However, if you were able to reach a very high threshhold in war assets, such as 90% and above, i would have preferred that the reapers be defeated but at great cost.  It owuld state that the war raged on for a decade or two, but in the end, we won.  Credit would be give to the Protheans and it could be stated that in total, they gave us a couple of hundred extra years to evolve which allowed our technology to surpass any the Reapers had gone up against previously.  Also, it could be said that while publicly the council and other governments denied the Reapers, they did rush new technologies into their battle fleets based on what they learned from the Destroyed Sovereign.  These new guns and sheilds allowed us to stand up to the Reapers and eventually prevail.  While there was great destruction on many worlds, and a very large portion of the population were killed among the citadel races, life would return to normal fairly soon and rebuilding was already underway.

That would have been my preferred refusal ending, if you get a very high readiness rating.

This could have been scaled 3 times.  You hve that "best ending" but for a mid range amount of readiness, you could have it said that we did fight the Reapers to a standoff.  Civilization was nearly destroyed, the majority of the citadel races losing most of their populations, and all but a few Reapers destroyed, the remaining few escape back into dark space.  This would have left room for a sequal.  The Reapers come back in the future, looking to finish what they started, while what was left of the galactic civilizations pull together, rebuild, with a warning for future generations to prepare for a possible return of the Reapers.

The worst ending would be simply that you didn't gain enough readiness, and so the Reapers end up winning, just as is the current version.  In this scenario, I would have loved to see the Reaper fleet leave for dark space with some "New Reapers."  Human, Asari, Salarian, etc...

[Excella Gionne]

RustyLH wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

Refusal Ending:
As stupid as the decision to get this ending is, Liara's words are still very touching when I pick it to hear it again. Maybe this could've been the ending for a conventional way of fighting the reapers, because the crucible couldn't be deployed, was destroyed, or couldn't be built based on assets......

What are your opinions?

Yes, I would have preferred that the refussal ending be much like this, but also have it be very similar if you did not complete the Crucible, or didn't get enough war assets.  However, if you were able to reach a very high threshhold in war assets, such as 90% and above, i would have preferred that the reapers be defeated but at great cost.  It owuld state that the war raged on for a decade or two, but in the end, we won.  Credit would be give to the Protheans and it could be stated that in total, they gave us a couple of hundred extra years to evolve which allowed our technology to surpass any the Reapers had gone up against previously.  Also, it could be said that while publicly the council and other governments denied the Reapers, they did rush new technologies into their battle fleets based on what they learned from the Destroyed Sovereign.  These new guns and sheilds allowed us to stand up to the Reapers and eventually prevail.  While there was great destruction on many worlds, and a very large portion of the population were killed among the citadel races, life would return to normal fairly soon and rebuilding was already underway.

That would have been my preferred refusal ending, if you get a very high readiness rating.

This could have been scaled 3 times.  You hve that "best ending" but for a mid range amount of readiness, you could have it said that we did fight the Reapers to a standoff.  Civilization was nearly destroyed, the majority of the citadel races losing most of their populations, and all but a few Reapers destroyed, the remaining few escape back into dark space.  This would have left room for a sequal.  The Reapers come back in the future, looking to finish what they started, while what was left of the galactic civilizations pull together, rebuild, with a warning for future generations to prepare for a possible return of the Reapers.

The worst ending would be simply that you didn't gain enough readiness, and so the Reapers end up winning, just as is the current version.  In this scenario, I would have loved to see the Reaper fleet leave for dark space with some "New Reapers."  Human, Asari, Salarian, etc...

Conventional Victory doesn't apply since it is stated many times that CV will not work at any costs. Two Decades is too long too, and most species would be extinct by then. They might not even last a year let alone two decades.

[RustyLH]

johnnythao89 wrote...


Conventional Victory doesn't apply since it is stated many times that CV will not work at any costs. Two Decades is too long too, and most species would be extinct by then. They might not even last a year let alone two decades.

I understand your points and agree, but I am saying that it could have been written in to give you this option.  For instance, one option on the crucible is to send out a virus that allows you to drop the shields of the Reapers.  They now become very vulnerable just as Sovereign did when he lost his shields.  Once down it didn't take much to kill him.

In this scenario, they all die fairly quickly.  The fleet at Earth, what's left of it, then goes galaxy hopping helping rid it of Reapers.

Here's more that could have helped.  The Reaper IFF was captured.  So some scientist/military planner thinks ahead and realizes that if the Reapers can alter the relays so that only they can use them, it will hurt the Allied fleets.  So the install replicas in every ship, and continue to do so through ME3.  This allows for one more reason the ALlied fleet can win where others failed.  In fact, I think it is a weakness in the storyline that this isn't stated to be a factor.

I think it should be part of the story that while the politicians never let the story get out, and kept denying the Reapers existed, it would have been more realistic to include in that, the story line that they did start trying to take steps to prepare...quietly.  So Reaper IFF on all essential ships would have been a great addition.  Then let the Reapers alter them so that they turn orange like the Omega relay, and they themselves learn too late that the Allied fleets were still using them by having the Reaper IFF installed.

[David7204]

That would be stupid for a plethora of reasons.

[RustyLH]

David7204 wrote...

That would be stupid for a plethora of reasons.

We'll just agree to disagree.  I think a lot of people wanted an option for a more conventional finish.  heck, they could have created downloadable content to go along with it where after defeating the Reapers at Earth, you go after other Reapers in the Galaxy.  It's not like they didn't charge a lot of money for DLC, and many people bought it.  Heck, even now, they could release a very rich MP DLC for ME3 and people would buy it.  Something that added PvP, and something that added more to the cooperative side.

[David7204]

I support a conventional victory as well.

But absolutely nothing like that.

[RustyLH]

David7204 wrote...

I support a conventional victory as well.

But absolutely nothing like that.

How they do it is irellevant.  I don't really care.  But personally, I see nothing wrong with my idea.  You are entitled to your opinion.  Nobody ever agrees on everything.  It does not bother me if some people don't like my idea.  No doubt, not everybody would like yours either.  That's just life.


i for one like to see plot holes closed.  For instance, ME2.  The Omega 4 relay?  Really?  As has beens tated on these baords before, putting a fleet there that shot at anything that came out of it would eliminate the Collector threat.  So it is a weak point in the story. 

Does the Citedel Council want to handle that?  No, but humans would, and frankly, why wouldn't they just attempt to destroy it after the Collector's went back through it?  It in the Terminus System, so who cares what damage it does?  It is near an Asteroid field.  So why not drive an asteroid into it and destroy it?

Plain and simple it is a big plot hole.

[RustyLH]

Also, if you take the Catalyst completely out of the game, which would please a lot of people, and simply had a way to win a CV, there is nothing wrong with the idea that the Crucible simply does something to permanently disable the shields on the Reapers. Why not? Their shields are what makes them so hard to kill, as per Sovereign at the Citadel. he wasn't too hard to destroy once his shields failed. So over time, organics attempted to solve that problem, and each time, they didn't get the Crucible done in time, or at all.