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Do you think Lambert's faction will hunt the Dalish Inquisitor and/or clans?


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#126
Xilizhra

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I was being a bit snarky. I understand your feelings on this point. I'm just saying, if you accept being elven is a physical thing, then you have to see a problem with the Dalish view that being elven is exclusively a cultural thing. Elves can't stop being elves even if they act identical to humans in all possible respects because of this intrinsic "elvenness" about their physicality.

True physically, less true culturally.

As for the Dales... I stand by my original view, which is that the homeland for the elves is the Arlathan forest and that's the land they should take back from the Tevinters, the people who stole it from them.

Tevinter will probably come out of this the strongest human nation in Thedas, so that doesn't seem like the world's best idea. Starting somewhere else and working one's way up to Arlathan might be better. The Dales would be ideal, but the human population is problematic unless the Veil tear kills them all somehow. Otherwise... well, carving a slice out of Orlais if it can be done without hurting anyone would be second most ideal, but might be hard to do.

#127
Sir JK

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LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm sure the practical details of the story will change things; I was hoping that apostate Hawke could turn Kirkwall into a mecca for mages back before Dragon Age II was released, and that certainly didn't turn out to be the case. Overall, I'm hoping for a good story with a an elven mage who properly reflects the cultural attitude and view that a Dalish elf would hold. Perhaps a modern day Illoren? Who knows.


Story? I'm hoping we'll meet them ;). Both elves that cast the Dalish in good light and elves that cast them in bad light. I want to see the best, and the worst, of the Dalish. And ideally, not in direct opposition to one another.

It's not that I'm opposed to the idea of a mage protagonist working with templars, but I'm hoping it's properly addressed (rather than ignored). Especially for a maleficar, since a Dalish mage would technically be using magic that's not sanctioned by the Chantry of Andraste or the Order of Templars.


I'm sure it will be. To some extent. Even if it's as little as: "We'll burn that bridge when we cross it" (ie. that you and then agree to put your differences aside for the time being).

I suppose that's true, but would the templars eventually expect an elven mage to enter the Circle of Magi (under their juristiction) once all is said and done? Would some templars have a problem with a maleficar, and cause a rift among the ranks? The reactivity interests me, since I imagine some pro-templar players might play as a Dalis elf and want to work with the templars, even as a mage.


This one is perhaps even more difficult to answer than why they'd work with you, since it depends on how the game ends rather than how it begins.
As it stands right now, yeah... they'd probably expect your dalish elf to enter their new circles. But earn their trust and they might look between the fingers when it comes to you and their allies. They might also end up with too little resources to achieve anything and just leave you alone. Too many possibilities to guess, really.

I'm assuming the inclusion of racial options, now that the developers have a year to implement them, would be properly addressed. I'm hoping it wouldn't simply be an Andrastian protagonist who is taller, shorter, or has pointy ears; it would be nice for the cultural background and perspective to be implemented, and I think it can be done so new fans can understand, instead of dumbing it down.

It's the cultural perspective that appeals to me; the difference in playing as a character who has a unique look at things that is starkly different than the one held by all Andrastians. How would a Dalish elf feel about Orlais and Tevinter, given the history the elves have had with these two societies? The Dalish don't hold the same view of the Beyond as Andrastians do of the Fade. How will that be reflected during the times the characters need to travel to the Beyond, especially when Dalish view all spirits as dangerous, to the point of avoiding magic that involves spirits as a consequence?

The differences are what interest me as a player. If the Inquisitor is little more than a re-skinned Andrastian with token lines, then I don't see the point.


Oh, I agree in principle. Just don't expect a game where your Dalish elf has a radically different story than my Orlesian.

I'm fairly certain you will get unique lines here and there. That you will get exclusive investigate options. That interactions, particularily with other Dalish, are going to be flavoured by your shared identity (them questioning why you lead the Inq. and so on). Some characters will initially react negatively (but not outright hostile) to you.
If we're really lucky, you will be called Brigand/highwayman often.

You're still going to get investigate options talking about the fade, maybe with a token reference to the beyond. Demons will still be assumed to be evil as the default. You're not going to be locked out of the Spirit school. Chantry, Templars and circle mages are not going to look twice at your race (but might comment how strange it is to meet you).

It will be the same game no matter the race, but with some recognition. Maybe... maybe.... some exclusive content. But not a lot.

Or think of it this way: For every dalish opinion, you also need one andrastian, one circle mage, one tal-vashoth, one surface dwarf and one city elf (add or remove based on what choices are available in the end). This mean practically that there can''t be too many of them.

I'm hoping your hunch is wrong, even though I wouldn't put much stock in it being wrong. If it is a primarily human organization, I have to wonder what the soldiers would think about following the commands of a Dalish Inquisitor (or even a Tal Vasoth Inquisitor). I'm hoping it wouldn't be glossed over.


I'm sure this one will be addressed though. For all inqusitors. Both in the beginning, and contineously as people question that -you- lead it.

I've wanted the opportunity to play as a Dalish mage for some time, and it's something I lamented when we first heard about Inquisition, back when we were told the Inquisitor would be 'human only'. The idea of playing as a protagonist who only looks Dalish, and has no real cultural identity with the People or any narrative that reflects his elven status - wouldn't be very interesting to me.

What interests me is the reactivity around a Dalish protagonist travelling to Orlais and Tevinter, how the world reacts to a powerful elven mage of the People. Might the rebel mages see him as an ally, or an enemy? How will the templars following Lambert and Divine Justina V react? How will Andrastians feel about a 'heathen' stopping a threat to all of Thedas? How will the elves, in particular, response to an elven champion who is gaining power and strength across the continent?

A re-skinned Andrastian human simply doesn't interest me. It's why I'd like to have the opportunity to help the elves in the Dales, rather than deal with the political situation in Orlais and ignore the plight of the elves. If the alternative is capitulation to Empress Celene or Grand Duke Gaspard, I wouldn't find it entertaining.


I know, my friend. It's just, like In Exile said, temper your expectations. You'll get a little, I'm fairly sure. But the uniquely dalish point of view would have to be tied deeper into the plot. You don't really want a race choice to be dalish, you want a fixed dalish pc. Which is fine, but this game won't deliver what that would.

The dalish situation, the mage-templar war, the Orlesian civil war... those are the sideplots to the great Inquisition and the Veil tear. They won't be as in depth as that one will be.
You will be the inquisitor first, your class second and your race third.

#128
Jedi Master of Orion

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Dalish mages are obviously apostates to the Chantry, but they would not necessarily be maleficarum. Especially considering that Dalish have their own taboos against certain magic.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 03 octobre 2013 - 07:08 .


#129
Guest_Morocco Mole_*

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Am I the only person that thinks elves were only originally "immortal" because of blood magic?

edit: any discrepencies in life span between dalish and city elves in modern Thedas can probably be explained by the dalish not living in a filthy ghetto in an already filthy medieval city.

Modifié par Morocco Mole, 03 octobre 2013 - 08:09 .


#130
Former_Fiend

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Morocco Mole wrote...

Am I the only person that thinks elves were only originally "immortal" because of blood magic?


I don't think about elves much at all.

Though that's not an unlikely theory.

#131
Jedi Master of Orion

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One curious piece of evidence about the ancient elves is that the ones in the Brecillian Forest appeared to live alongside humans, both the Dalish Origin and the main game mention this. And that culture appeared to predate the Fall of Arlthan.

#132
Aolbain

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Morocco Mole wrote...

I think my favorite part of this thread is that it is acceptable for the elves to commit genocide


But those humans ancestors did bad stuff 700 years ago. They totally had it coming!

#133
Xilizhra

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I'm sure the practical details of the story will change things; I was hoping that apostate Hawke could turn Kirkwall into a mecca for mages back before Dragon Age II was released, and that certainly didn't turn out to be the case. Overall, I'm hoping for a good story with a an elven mage who properly reflects the cultural attitude and view that a Dalish elf would hold. Perhaps a modern day Illoren? Who knows.

Okay, I have to say it now: you're using "mecca" wrong. It's a place where Muslims go on a pilgrimage to, yes, but they don't stay there, at least not most of them; you go there to check a box on your five-point list, basically, then go back home. It'd be more akin to Moses' Promised Land or something if you're staying with the religious theme.

Both elves that cast the Dalish in good light and elves that cast them in bad light. I want to see the best, and the worst, of the Dalish. And ideally, not in direct opposition to one another.

Why not? Also, we already had the worst (Marethari).

#134
The Elder King

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Marethari (in DA2) might be bad (I'd say she was a moron in making all the clan hate Merrill, considering that her goal was to have her give up on the Eluvian and return to the clan), and she might be the worst example of a elf in the games (the elven slaver was definitely worse), by she's not the worst possible example of an elf. There could be worse.

#135
TheKomandorShepard

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Morocco Mole wrote...

Am I the only person that thinks elves were only originally "immortal" because of blood magic?

edit: any discrepencies in life span between dalish and city elves in modern Thedas can probably be explained by the dalish not living in a filthy ghetto in an already filthy medieval city.


well such thoughts were in my head as well ,but for now we can't confirm and even argue about that so only speculations now.

#136
Vilegrim

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Am I the only person that thinks elves were only originally "immortal" because of blood magic?

edit: any discrepencies in life span between dalish and city elves in modern Thedas can probably be explained by the dalish not living in a filthy ghetto in an already filthy medieval city.


well such thoughts were in my head as well ,but for now we can't confirm and even argue about that so only speculations now.


Even if it was a) true, and B) blood magic, it would really depend on how and what with.  So for instance joining with spirits of life or love or hope would be fine, pride and rage definetly not.

#137
Xilizhra

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hhh89 wrote...

Marethari (in DA2) might be bad (I'd say she was a moron in making all the clan hate Merrill, considering that her goal was to have her give up on the Eluvian and return to the clan), and she might be the worst example of a elf in the games (the elven slaver was definitely worse), by she's not the worst possible example of an elf. There could be worse.

Certainly there could be, but they're likely to be terrible for individual reasons alone, and not be a poor reflection on elven society as a whole.

#138
Herr Uhl

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Xilizhra wrote...

Why not? Also, we already had the worst (Marethari).


As opposed to the altruistic Zathrian?

#139
Xilizhra

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Herr Uhl wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Why not? Also, we already had the worst (Marethari).


As opposed to the altruistic Zathrian?

Zathrian was more on a mission of personal revenge; Marethari's actions were based around a badly skewed interpretation of Dalish ideals, though admittedly by her own pride as well.

#140
General TSAR

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Morocco Mole wrote...

I think my favorite part of this thread is that it is acceptable for the elves to commit genocide

The more I hear the usual Knife-ear apologists advocating ethnic cleansing, the more I want to completely murder the knife-ears.

Humanity uber alles!

#141
The Elder King

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Xilizhra wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Marethari (in DA2) might be bad (I'd say she was a moron in making all the clan hate Merrill, considering that her goal was to have her give up on the Eluvian and return to the clan), and she might be the worst example of a elf in the games (the elven slaver was definitely worse), by she's not the worst possible example of an elf. There could be worse.

Certainly there could be, but they're likely to be terrible for individual reasons alone, and not be a poor reflection on elven society as a whole.


I agree.
About the worst example of an elf in the games, I think that Zathrian beats Marethari. For his 'revenge' (the humans responsible were already dead in DAO) he was willing to condamn innocent humans to live as beasts, and to let his clan, the people he had the duty to protect, die and be turned. 

#142
Jedi Master of Orion

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The worst individual example of an elf I can think of is probably Huon.

#143
Taleroth

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I fully expect Lambert's faction to be the Red Templars. And those guys seem to kill everybody.

#144
The Elder King

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Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The worst individual example of an elf I can think of is probably Huon.


True, I forgot about Huon. The elven slaver in DAO is close enough though.

#145
Sir JK

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Xilizhra wrote...

Why not? Also, we already had the worst (Marethari).


As bad as Marethari's treatment of Merril* may have been, I do not consider her close to what I imagine the Dalish is at their worst. Velanna and Zathrian both shows us different, but equally scary aspects. But we've yet to see a Dalish that's to the Dalish what Meredith (prior to the idol, anyways) is to the templars. Uncompromising. Fanatical. Ruthless. Driven.

And I so want to see that one.

* As an aside, as a quick defense of Marethari... remember that Merrill is violating one of the Dalish highest laws by dealing with spirits (and worse yet, a pride demon). This is strictly forbidden for keepers to do. The spirit school is forbidden. It's part of Merrill's pride (she's a very, very proud woman) that makes her lay the sole blame at Marethari's feet despite that she's the one that violate the very lifestyle of her people.
Marethari is not blameless, and people on this forums have managed to convince me that Audacity was probably manipulating her as well. The way she manipulated the clan to reject Merrill was abhorrent. But Merrill is not an innocent little flower that according to Dalish culture has done no wrong...

#146
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Xilizhra wrote...

Marethari's actions were based around a badly skewed interpretation of Dalish ideals, though admittedly by her own pride as well.


And Zathrian's actions weren't?

Modifié par Morocco Mole, 03 octobre 2013 - 07:15 .


#147
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Vilegrim wrote...

Even if it was a) true, and B) blood magic, it would really depend on how and what with.  So for instance joining with spirits of life or love or hope would be fine, pride and rage definetly not.


You shouldn't be joining with spirits either.

#148
Taleroth

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Morocco Mole wrote...

You shouldn't be joining with spirits either.

Maybe you shouldn't. But they totally promised me they were legit.

#149
Xilizhra

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As bad as Marethari's treatment of Merril* may have been, I do not consider her close to what I imagine the Dalish is at their worst. Velanna and Zathrian both shows us different, but equally scary aspects. But we've yet to see a Dalish that's to the Dalish what Meredith (prior to the idol, anyways) is to the templars. Uncompromising. Fanatical. Ruthless. Driven.

Velanna was simply deceived. Zathrian's motivation seems too personal for me to ascribe anything Dalish-specific to it. And the irony of your statement is that I actually had sort of planned on my Dalish Inquisitor being like that... minus, perhaps, the "uncompromising" part. But definitely committed to the success of the elven people.

* As an aside, as a quick defense of Marethari... remember that Merrill is violating one of the Dalish highest laws by dealing with spirits (and worse yet, a pride demon). This is strictly forbidden for keepers to do. The spirit school is forbidden. It's part of Merrill's pride (she's a very, very proud woman) that makes her lay the sole blame at Marethari's feet despite that she's the one that violate the very lifestyle of her people.
Marethari is not blameless, and people on this forums have managed to convince me that Audacity was probably manipulating her as well. The way she manipulated the clan to reject Merrill was abhorrent. But Merrill is not an innocent little flower that according to Dalish culture has done no wrong...

Wut? The spirit school isn't forbidden as far as I know. As for the culture... well, culture itself is frequently wrong.

#150
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The more I hear the usual Knife-ear apologists advocating ethnic cleansing, the more I want to completely murder the knife-ears.


It isn't ethnic cleansing when the People do it my friend.