111 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Oh yes, esper, I fully agree that it would be better if we never see the Warden or Hawke in person but only hear rumors about them, exactly because of these concerns. This thread was made because some people - me and jtav, in this case - worry what might happen *if* they appear in person.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 octobre 2013 - 10:09 .

[esper]

@Ieldra2. I wasn't as much arguing against you as simply continuing the discussion. I don't think we disagree so much, just thought that were more points to be added.

And I share you worry. Very, very much so. This is one of these thing that can really make and break dragon age for me, since it, for me personally, can actively destroy my enjoyment of both da:o and da2. Both games which I so far enjoy.

[Sister Goldring]

I think the devs would have to be completely out of their minds to include either past protagonist as an NPC. The reaction it could provoke from a 'my Warden/Hawke wouldn't say/dress/eat/look or categorically DO this perspective far outweighs any potential nostalgic warm fuzzies I'd feel seeing the old hero again.

Also they couldn't include the characters in any plot shakingly meaningful way because why should a player new to the franchise give a rats about our former hero. At most any inclusion would probably have to be some sort of a cameo scenario and I honestly can't see why anyone would bother braving the potential wrath of the disappointed for so incidental an experience. It sounds about as much fun as poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick to me.

I hope we do learn more about the fate of both Hawke and the Warden but I'm fine with hearing it from an NPC or reading about it in the codex. This just seems like the simplest and least problematic solution.  

Modifié par Sister Goldring, 03 octobre 2013 - 10:32 .

[Dominus]

I'm going to agree with esper on this one - I'd rather them recognize the existence and actions of your previous PC without a moment of "Hello me, it's me again." I'd personally keep it on a mentioned-here-and-there basis.

My biggest fear is she ends up like Shep in ME3, only with even less choice.

Is such a thing even possible? I wouldn't expect that, though.

Modifié par DominusVita, 03 octobre 2013 - 10:38 .

[9TailsFox]

And I am just sitting here ...
Waiting for DA3
I be The Inquisitor so I don't really care, ok I lying it would be nice to see my protagonist and what stuff they do after I am no more in charge, if not whatever.

[esper]

The biggest problem with Me for me was that they tried to force physological drama into the character´and didn't even gave us the choice of how that drama would play out.

For example the traumatizing of the PC:

In da2 when Leandra dies at least you have the option of seeking comfort from the LI, snapping at them and tell them to f*ck off an mind their own busniness or just plain grieving with them. You also had a different responses with Aveline. In Me we just got. Shephard is traumatized and it works like this.

Maybe it is because I have tendensy to automatically install character development in the PC myselves, including scarring, but I just hate when the game tell me how it should be done. My warden went from a nice jokester to a live in a moment character, to almost hedonism in da:a and I would hate to have her see railroaded back into good girl character just because she might have made some classical good choice in da:o. My Hawke went from nice diplomatic, but reasonable pro-mage blood mage, to a very violent mage supremecist (not that she would ever admit this). I don't want to see her being saddled with being nice to the inqusitor because she is 'diplomatic' dominantly.


Unfortunately I am 100 percent sure that if the PC gets back like a person it will work like Me. Because they will have to indulge some so overdramatic situation that can rail road all characters into the somewhat same NPC and justify everyone would be reasonable here and not do dramtic X. Nevermind that warden and Hawke can be played as really unreasonable in game.

As for those who says that, but my character wouldn't just sit still doing a crisis. I again refer to rumours. Say if you warden at the end of da:o/a expresses that they want to stay with the warden, you hear about how the warden in Fereldan are led by the Hero of Fereldan, against the demon infestion. etc. etc. All this can be done wihtout actually breaking character because we never meet the character, character inconsistendcy can be chalked up to unrealiasness of the story teller and the former pc's are still part of the world.

[Ieldra]

Sister Goldring wrote...
I think the devs would have to be completely out of their minds to include either past protagonist as an NPC. The reaction it could provoke from a 'my Warden/Hawke wouldn't say/dress/eat/look or categorically DO this perspective far outweighs any potential nostalgic warm fuzzies I'd feel seeing the old hero again.

Also they couldn't include the characters in any plot shakingly meaningful way because why should a player new to the franchise give a rats about our former hero. At most any inclusion would probably have to be some sort of a cameo scenario and I honestly can't see why anyone would bother braving the potential wrath of the disappointed for so incidental an experience. It sounds about as much fun as poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick to me.

I hope we do learn more about the fate of both Hawke and the Warden but I'm fine with hearing it from an NPC or reading about it in the codex. This just seems like the simplest and least problematic solution.  

Well, they can do quite a bit without making people angry. Here's a scenario for a Hawke cameo I don't think would raise any objections:
Some time after Hawke left Kirkwall, they were separated from their LI (if any) by some event related to DAI's main plot. They manage to get out of their conundrum on their own, but are wounded in the process, and we meet them on our way to the location they're just leaving. There is the opportunity for an exchange of information. Hawke asks about the situation using the dominant tone from DA2, gives our Inquisitor some relevant information and inquires after the LI (if any). We have the opportunity to ask them about the events in Kirkwall, and Hawke reports some of what they have experienced there in a neutral way. If Varric is in the party, there will be added lines, varying dependent on whether there was friendship or rivalry between them in DA2. Hawke, being in no shape to take part in another fight, then goes their own way, with vague statements about having things to do and people to find after healing up.

The only problem I see with such a scenario is Hawke's appearance, but I get the impression that we might be able to recreate our Wardens and Hawkes using the DA Keep and import their appearance into DAI. That leaves only the modded ones out, but you mod at your own risk, so people with modded Hawkes have no legitimate reason to complain.

The question is: will this be worth it? I honestly don't know... anyway, I would be fine with just rumors. This post is to illustrate that I think our old protagonists can be handled appropriately in a cameo.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 octobre 2013 - 11:18 .

[Kharaide]

i want hawke and the warden to appear

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Well, they can do quite a bit without making people angry. Here's a scenario for a Hawke cameo I don't think would raise any objections:
Some time after Hawke left Kirkwall, they were separated from their LI (if any) by some event related to DAI's main plot. They manage to get out of their conundrum on their own, but are wounded in the process, and we meet them on our way to the location they're just leaving. There is the opportunity for an exchange of information. Hawke asks about the situation using the dominant tone from DA2, gives our Inquisitor some relevant information and inquires after the LI (if any). We have the opportunity to ask them about the events in Kirkwall, and Hawke reports some of what they have experienced there in a neutral way. If Varric is in the party, there will be added lines, varying dependent on whether there was friendship or rivalry between them in DA2. Hawke, being in no shape to take part in another fight, then goes their own way, with vague statements about having things to do and people to find after healing up.

The only problem I see with such a scenario is Hawke's appearance, but I get the impression that we might be able to recreate our Wardens and Hawkes using the DA Keep and import their appearance into DAI. That leaves only the modded ones out, but you mod at your own risk, so people with modded Hawkes have no legitimate reason to complain.

The question is: will this be worth it? I honestly don't know... anyway, I would be fine with just rumors. This post is to illustrate that I think our old protagonists can be handled appropriately in a cameo.

The scenario you present i suppose could  be done in a neutral enough to not be overly offensive. I still don't see how a passive cameo of Hawke would be in any way rewarding/satisfying.

I'd personally much prefer to hear rumours of Hawke(& LI) doing great things elsewhere than get a cheap cameo where they are doing very little.

Modifié par wright1978, 03 octobre 2013 - 11:25 .

[Sister Goldring]

Leldra2

Sorry, my tablets just decided it can't handle the standard form so I can't quote your post.

I think you're underestimating people's capacity to get upset over things. Even in the very reasonable scenario you describe I can see ways that people could feel annoyed. Say the player feels that in this specific instance their Hawke would not have used their dominant tone or that their Hawke was way too badass a fighter to have ever been injured by whatever hurt them or that their Hawke was a spirit healer/always carried 500 elfroot potions on them and so would have been able to join the Inquisitor's party and that's what they would have done. I've given about 2 seconds thought to things you could potentially whine about and there's three straight off the bat, without going to appearance issues.

Additionally there would have to be some exposition of who this person is for new players or the scene would have to be only present in a DA2 save game import version making it less likely to be something that a lot of resources would be spent on. So potentially more cost for the appearance of a character who does nothing except for allowing the player to say they saw their old Hawke again.

I'm not saying they couldn't or won't do this but I would question the value of doing so.  

Modifié par Sister Goldring, 03 octobre 2013 - 12:08 .

[Clockwork_Wings]

I want them to put Hawke and the warden in the game without telling us. Then it'll come as a surprise when they do. Nearly dropped the controller when I met Fenris, because my warden import was an elf with white hair.

[Taleroth]

I'm more worried that if Hawke appears, the idiot balls and abominations might have broken out of Kirkwall.

It might be best to let me stab him. You know, to be safe.

Modifié par Taleroth, 03 octobre 2013 - 04:00 .