49 réponses à ce sujet

[cap and gown]

Wrex has absolutely no right to complain about the genophage. He claims it is killing his people, but it is not. Krogan are killing themselves. Because they can't have a 1000 babies in a year they are so mortified they just go off world to hire out as mercenaries? Um, there are other options, you know?

More to the point, however, Wrex had absolutely no problem advocating genocide when it came to the fate of the queen. "Millions of my ancestors died to save the galaxy from these things." And how many millions of Salarians and Turians died at the hands of the Krogan? But did they exterminate your race in retaliation? No. They could have, but they didn't.

Don't think I'll just forget your double standard when thinking about the Dalatrass's offer.

[Excella Gionne]

Meh, killed it anyways. Didn't want to choose between Grunt(and Aralakh Company), and the Rachni Queen.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I agree. That was terribly hypocritical of him. A lot of people think like that, though -- [x] does not apply to *my* enemy.


If you think that's funny, listen to Wreav's take on it, when you talk to him in private and acknowledge that you let the 'queen walk free on Noveria. He says something to the effect of "Maybe a species that threatened the galaxy before are just monsters." Speak for yaself, homeboy.

[Excella Gionne]

StreetMagic wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

Meh, killed it anyways. Didn't want to choose between Grunt(and Aralakh Company), and the Rachni Queen.

Same here.

Don't really want Wrex around either. I want to set up a scenario where Grunt can challenge Wreav (just for headcanon purposes and whatnot. I doubt these choices have any actual meaning).

I always keep Wrex alive. 

[Excella Gionne]

StreetMagic wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...


I always keep Wrex alive. 

The main reason why I don't is I want to see what Krogan can accomplish through Okeer's vision. Which basically boils down to being so badass that you make the genophage irrelevant. Can Grunt ascend atop a pile of corpes as he was destined to do? The Krogan shaman said similar things, about how destruction of his planet and destruction of his people even was a "good" thing. That it weeded out the weak.

Okeer's idea of making the Krogans become stronger with the Genophage was similar to the Shaman's words. I can understand his logic, but their species won't survive that way...

[grey_wind]

johnnythao89 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...


I always keep Wrex alive. 

The main reason why I don't is I want to see what Krogan can accomplish through Okeer's vision. Which basically boils down to being so badass that you make the genophage irrelevant. Can Grunt ascend atop a pile of corpes as he was destined to do? The Krogan shaman said similar things, about how destruction of his planet and destruction of his people even was a "good" thing. That it weeded out the weak.

Okeer's idea of making the Krogans become stronger with the Genophage was similar to the Shaman's words. I can understand his logic, but their species won't survive that way...

The thing is though, that both of them did have a point: the Genophage was only a death sentence because the Krogan perceived it as such and thus adopted a nihilstic and self-destructive lifestyle. A 0.01% birth rate, coupled with their absurdly long lifespans, is enough to sustain their population if they actually practice anything resembling self-preservation.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ah yes, the Krogan. "Stupid Machine!" What happens when they overpopulate their world? Will they blow it up again? How about when they overpopulate another world? Will they blow up that one? Wrex and Bakara are two people among billions. There are many many others who think like Wreav. Wrex better hire a food taster. Things could go back to the old ways very quickly.

Hurling asteroids into worlds? They brought the genophage on themselves.

[The Night Mammoth]

cap and gown wrote...

Wrex has absolutely no right to complain about the genophage. He claims it is killing his people, but it is not. Krogan are killing themselves. Because they can't have a 1000 babies in a year they are so mortified they just go off world to hire out as mercenaries? Um, there are other options, you know?

There aren't other options to the average krogan. It's part of their culture, it's the way they think. Krogan aren't logical, they aren't 'smart', for the most part. They don't want to or care about the continuation of their species as a whole. Wrex does. He wants the krogan to change and he tries to make them change in the second game because the genophage is killing his people, it's just not the sole cause and he even acknowledges that in ME1. 

More to the point, however, Wrex had absolutely no problem advocating genocide when it came to the fate of the queen. "Millions of my ancestors died to save the galaxy from these things." And how many millions of Salarians and Turians died at the hands of the Krogan? But did they exterminate your race in retaliation? No. They could have, but they didn't.

They just infected them with a disease which caused immeasurable suffering, billions of krogan stillbirths and who knows how many adult deaths as a side-effect.

Don't think I'll just forget your double standard when thinking about the Dalatrass's offer.

Of course it's a double standard. Is an inexcusable double standard? No. Wrex is a krogan, and one of the few to care about his species, of course he's not going to advocate genocide of his own species for their past transgressions. He's invested in their survival.

Also, there is a difference between the rachni and the krogan. The rachni had never before shown another side to their genocidal nature. Saving them is a leap, basically. The krogan however are culturally varied and intellectually complex enough that they have the observable propensity to change from being, for the most part, indiscriminate brutes and murderers. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 02 octobre 2013 - 01:17 .

[cap and gown]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

If you think that's funny, listen to Wreav's take on it, when you talk to him in private and acknowledge that you let the 'queen walk free on Noveria. He says something to the effect of "Maybe a species that threatened the galaxy before are just monsters." Speak for yaself, homeboy.

The quote is more like "A species that started a galactic war can't be trusted." Good advice Wreav. Thanks for making my choice easy.

[cap and gown]

johnnythao89 wrote...
I always keep Wrex alive. 

The real reasons to keep him alive are a) Wreav is super annoying, and Wrex is a lot of fun to have on your squad in Citadel.

[Xplode441]

The Night Mammoth wrote...
There aren't other options to the average krogan. It's part of their culture, it's the way they think. Krogan aren't logical, they aren't 'smart', for the most part.

Didn't they say in ME3 that the Krogan were actually a technological race and once they conquered the planet, they basically just got bored and nuked each other?

I might have liked the Krogan as a race if they explored the subject of their past civilization more instead of going the, "We krogan, we butt heads" route.

As long as we're on the topic of him, Wrex hit the nail on the head on me when he called me out on just wanting the Krogan as cannon fodder against the reapers.  Although, I could see that being turned against him as being an ungrateful douche to people who legitimately wanted to cure the genophage in ME3 and destroyed Maelon's data in ME2.
If you destroy Maelon's data, he holds a grudge against Shepard no matter what you did with him in ME1, which is kind of stupid if you helped him get his family armor and talked with him and all.  You would think he'd trust Shepard's choices, especially since he concedes on Virmire that Shepard had a legitimate reason to destroy the cure.
What would Wrex do with that cure if he obtained it as it was in ME2?  He wouldn't trust the Salarians to come in and help him finish it, and I don't think the council would stand by and let him go to a private company for it.  It would have just sat there and done nothing but create immuno-deficient krogan females (assuming the krogan got that far); without the Salarians who worked on the genophage, I doubt anything would have come of that cure.


tl;dr Wrex is a stupid douche if you do what you see as right in ME2.

Modifié par Xplode441, 02 octobre 2013 - 03:12 .

[Cobalt2113]

cap and gown wrote...

Don't think I'll just forget your double standard when thinking about the Dalatrass's offer.

So, let me get this straight. In order to teach Wrex a lesson for advocating genocide against the rachni, you're going to perpetrate genocide on the Krogan. Ok...

I guess the logical next step would be for someone to commit genocide on the humans in order to teach your Shepard a lesson.

Modifié par Cobalt2113, 02 octobre 2013 - 03:25 .

[Excella Gionne]

cap and gown wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...
I always keep Wrex alive. 

The real reasons to keep him alive are a) Wreav is super annoying, and Wrex is a lot of fun to have on your squad in Citadel.

I haz my reasons....

[Cobalt2113]

StreetMagic wrote...

Genophage isn't genocide. It's population control. Happens every day with all kinds of animals (and even humans). It's their own fault if they want to kill each other.

It's established that the Genophage is wiping out the Krogans and that they will soon be extinct. A slow genocide is still a genocide.

[David7204]

The choice to cure the genophage was incredibly easy for one simple reason.

You don't betray people when they help you. Simple as that.

Modifié par David7204, 02 octobre 2013 - 03:37 .

[Excella Gionne]

Even though Wrex might be wrong about exterminating the Rachni, it is a problem between Krogans and the Rachni only. It's understandable. The decision to commit Genocide is based on priority and for the greater good. When comparing Rachni and Krogan problems(excluding the genophage), they are very similar and it's hard to distinguish a difference apart from the fact that the Rachni during the Rachni wars were indoctrinated, and for the Krogans, they went to go colonize worlds that were already colonized by council species. Thus, they were given the genophage to suppress their growth in numbers.

My decision to kill the Rachni was because I couldn't trust them. They were a problem then, but could potentially be a problem later, but when you look at it the other way, the Krogans can be seen like that as well. But if I had to choose one to save, I'd save the Krogans, because they're much more independent. Rachni, they need a queen to survive. Without one, they become mindless and crazy. It's much more safer to deal with a Krogan than a crazy Rachni.

[David7204]

When is it ever said that adult Rachni go 'crazy' without a queen?

[Cobalt2113]

David7204 wrote...

When is it ever said that adult Rachni go 'crazy' without a queen?

From the mass effect wiki

It is apparent that without a song from their elders, rachni workers and soldiers are driven insane by the silence and will attack anything on sight out of fear. The queen believes they are beyond help and asks Shepard to euthanise them.

Modifié par Cobalt2113, 02 octobre 2013 - 03:48 .

[David7204]

I'm pretty certain it was made clear during the mission that the Rachni were hostile because they were without a queen specifically as babies. Not as adults. That wiki can be edited by anyone.