49 réponses à ce sujet

[Excella Gionne]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Genophage isn't genocide. It's population control. Happens every day with all kinds of animals (and even humans). It's their own fault if they want to kill each other.

It's established that the Genophage is wiping out the Krogans and that they will soon be extinct. A slow genocide is still a genocide.

Struggling for existence, and preserving one's own species is pretty much a difficult job to do. Even if they did deserve it, I don't think Krogans should pay back their debt in complete extinction. Female Krogans feel ashamed of their sterilization, and I thought that was a pretty harsh way to live to feel like that. You don't know how it is until you're actually experiencing it or had experienced it. 

[Excella Gionne]

David7204 wrote...

When is it ever said that adult Rachni go 'crazy' without a queen?

They take orders from the queen, and it is told within Mass Effect 1 that they become mindless without a queen. That's why you're getting constantly attacked by Rachni on Noveria...they were taken from their queen and without a queen with them when they are born, they turn out crazy and aggressive.

[David7204]

I'm pretty sure ME 1 says they're hostile because they're without a queen as babies.

[Excella Gionne]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

When is it ever said that adult Rachni go 'crazy' without a queen?

From the mass effect wiki

It is apparent that without a song from their elders, rachni workers and soldiers are driven insane by the silence and will attack anything on sight out of fear. The queen believes they are beyond help and asks Shepard to euthanise them.

I actually never looked that up on the Wiki....

[Excella Gionne]

David7204 wrote...

I'm pretty sure ME 1 says they're hostile because they're without a queen as babies.

I believe they all follow one queen though. Including the adults. The indoctrinated queen proposed an attack during the Rachni wars. 

[David7204]

When is that ever said?

[Xplode441]

I'm in the awkward position of agreeing with David.
The Rachni on Noveria were mindless killers because they weren't touched by the queen's songs in their eggs. The Queen says this when you ask her, something about, "They took them away, locked me up so my songs could not reach them."

And I don't know about a single Rachni queen being the dominant one, it's said that there were multiple nests during the Rachni wars. I think it's more plausible that the Reapers indoctrinated the leaders like they were doing to the leaders on Earth and tried on Palaven.

[Excella Gionne]

Xplode441 wrote...

I'm in the awkward position of agreeing with David.
The Rachni on Noveria were mindless killers because they weren't touched by the queen's songs in their eggs. The Queen says this when you ask her, something about, "They took them away, locked me up so my songs could not reach them."

And I don't know about a single Rachni queen being the dominant one, it's said that there were multiple nests during the Rachni wars. I think it's more plausible that the Reapers indoctrinated the leaders like they were doing to the leaders on Earth and tried on Palaven.

Could not have put it any better than that. 

[grey_wind]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Genophage isn't genocide. It's population control. Happens every day with all kinds of animals (and even humans). It's their own fault if they want to kill each other.

It's established that the Genophage is wiping out the Krogans and that they will soon be extinct. A slow genocide is still a genocide.

It isn't genocide.
Wrex (ME1 and 2), Okeer and Mordin (ME2) all have argued that the only reason the Genophage is killing the Krogan is because they wrongly believed it to be a death sentence and have thus adopted a self-destructive and nihilistic mindset.
When you give birth to thousands in a clutch and can live for millenia, a 0.01% birth rate could have quite easily allowed the Krogan a sustainable population if they actually tried anything resembling self-preservation.

One of the biggest problems with the entire Genophage storyline is that it never addresses why the Genophage needs to be an all-or-nothing type of deal. Are Mordin and Padok so disqualified in their professions that neither can alter the Genophage to raise the fertility rates to, say, 5%?
That entire plotline in ME3, touting that the Genophage=Genocide, feels contrived for the sole reason to give you a faux-dificult decision at the end. 

[CynicalShep]

StreetMagic wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

Without one, they become mindless and crazy. It's much more safer to deal with a Krogan than a crazy Rachni.

Neither one would be easy to deal with.

Besides all of this, it appears the Salarians are prepared to open yet another can of worms and will uplift the Yahg. If you cure the genophage, I think they'll be scared enough to do that.

I always said that if there's a race that will doom the galaxy - it's these careless morons. What good is a brilliant mind that never learns?

[KaiserShep]

They were going to uplift the yagh anyway, because the salarians are silly like that. Hell I'd say that salarians are the biggest troublemakers of all.

[RatThing]

I had Liara with me on Noveria. When she was defending the Queen Wrex's response was "What's the matter? Do the Asari need another race to cuddle up with?" He was such an ass in the first game. If Liara were a little more like her Father she'd probably slapped his ass with a singularity here. He also had a very shady past. Piracy jobs for Saren, contract kills on Noveria, even tried to kill a good friend for money. And this is supposed to be the best hope for the Krogan?

[DJBare]

RatThing wrote...

...He also had a very shady past. Piracy jobs for Saren, contract kills on Noveria, even tried to kill a good friend for money. And this is supposed to be the best hope for the Krogan?

Pretty much all Krogan males have a shady past, but if you talk with Eve in medbay you learn why, it's not cut and dried.

[KaiserShep]

I'm pretty sure Wrex only does one job involving Saren, and left as quickly as he could (and didn't even bother to get paid IIRC).

[cap and gown]

KaiserShep wrote...

They were going to uplift the yagh anyway, because the salarians are silly like that. Hell I'd say that salarians are the biggest troublemakers of all.

The Salarians have struck me as the organic equivalent of the reapers: They turn entire species into bio-weapons. First the Krogan. Then possibly the Varren and the Yahg. Too bad for themselves they don't have the reapers' indoctrination capability since they aren't really able to control their weapons.

Modifié par cap and gown, 02 octobre 2013 - 10:25 .

[RatThing]

I do not dislike characters with a renegade attitude, in fact Zaeed and Javik are 2 of my favourites. It just feels strange and out of place that Wrex is supposed to be that ruthless badass Krogan and the Gandhi for his species at the same time.

[KaiserShep]

Wrex always struck me as sort of resigned to his place in the galaxy in ME1, since he actually started out trying to rally the clans together for the betterment of his species, but ended up leaving after his father set a trap for him in the hollows.

[eyezonlyii]

It strikes me as hypocrisy as well. And I agree with the points about the birth rate. In fact Mordin tells you the Krogan were evolving past the genophage in ME2. I also agree with the point about the rachni needing a queen only as children. Either way though, My Shepard has this thought: the galaxy beat them before, we can do it again if necessary.

S/N: How quickly do Krogan mature? If it's rather slowly, then the galaxy should have no problem defeating them considering their low numbers as of now.

[FlyingSquirrel]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Ah yes, the Krogan. "Stupid Machine!" What happens when they overpopulate their world? Will they blow it up again? How about when they overpopulate another world? Will they blow up that one? Wrex and Bakara are two people among billions. There are many many others who think like Wreav. Wrex better hire a food taster. Things could go back to the old ways very quickly.

Hurling asteroids into worlds? They brought the genophage on themselves.

Wrex had already gathered a decent number of followers in ME2 *before* he had the political clout from curing the genophage. I doubt he could have stayed in power that long if almost everyone on Tuchanka disagreed with him. Between his actions in ME3 and Bakara's reported efforts back on Tuchanka, I think it's safe to say that they have a substantial following who wouldn't just roll over if something happened to them.

Modifié par FlyingSquirrel, 03 octobre 2013 - 08:33 .

[Bad King]

KaiserShep wrote...

They were going to uplift the yagh anyway, because the salarians are silly like that. Hell I'd say that salarians are the biggest troublemakers of all.

And yet the STG were the only faction other than Cerberus that were actively preparing for the Reaper invasion. The turians and asari were the biggest troublemakers as they refused to read the writing on the wall until it was too late. If anything, it's a pity the salarians hadn't uplifted the yahg earlier: their savagery, strength and intelligence could have been utilised efficiently against the reapers.

Modifié par Bad King, 04 octobre 2013 - 03:11 .

[shodiswe]

Xplode441 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...
There aren't other options to the average krogan. It's part of their culture, it's the way they think. Krogan aren't logical, they aren't 'smart', for the most part.

Didn't they say in ME3 that the Krogan were actually a technological race and once they conquered the planet, they basically just got bored and nuked each other?

I might have liked the Krogan as a race if they explored the subject of their past civilization more instead of going the, "We krogan, we butt heads" route.

As long as we're on the topic of him, Wrex hit the nail on the head on me when he called me out on just wanting the Krogan as cannon fodder against the reapers.  Although, I could see that being turned against him as being an ungrateful douche to people who legitimately wanted to cure the genophage in ME3 and destroyed Maelon's data in ME2.
If you destroy Maelon's data, he holds a grudge against Shepard no matter what you did with him in ME1, which is kind of stupid if you helped him get his family armor and talked with him and all.  You would think he'd trust Shepard's choices, especially since he concedes on Virmire that Shepard had a legitimate reason to destroy the cure.
What would Wrex do with that cure if he obtained it as it was in ME2?  He wouldn't trust the Salarians to come in and help him finish it, and I don't think the council would stand by and let him go to a private company for it.  It would have just sat there and done nothing but create immuno-deficient krogan females (assuming the krogan got that far); without the Salarians who worked on the genophage, I doubt anything would have come of that cure.


tl;dr Wrex is a stupid douche if you do what you see as right in ME2.

They even sent Krogan to another planet before they got bored and nuked themselves. Humans to this date has sent people to the moon but not other planets.
I bet someone like Wreav took over the political power from the Shamans. The shamans knew pain and the price of glory. The upstarts only craved glory. =one smashed civilization. Then they all had to learn about pain.
Then they got uplifted, they wanted more glory and wealth power comfort glory. Which led to...
Genophage, back to a lession in Pain.

Modifié par shodiswe, 04 octobre 2013 - 06:27 .

[Simba501]

RatThing wrote...

I do not dislike characters with a renegade attitude, in fact Zaeed and Javik are 2 of my favourites. It just feels strange and out of place that Wrex is supposed to be that ruthless badass Krogan and the Gandhi for his species at the same time.

Makes perfect sense to me.