513 réponses à ce sujet

[Boycott Bioware]

Lord Aesir wrote...
Fever killed Alexander, not domestic tension. At any rate, he learned cavalry tactics from his Macedonian tutors. The Macedonians used cavalry long before his invasion into Persia.

Alexander got poisoned. I never said Romans and Greek don't use cavalry, i said they have weak cavalry and not rely on cavalry charge in their battle tactic. You may give some few example of cavalry battles but it never become the main tactic of Roman, Greek and Europeans before Crusade era in which medieval.

Cavalry charge as main battle tactic was eastern way, it is because of terrain, surrounding, humidity, body size, horse breed and some other factors like i have already mention. Eastern lands are mostly desert, steppes, hot, wide...unlike European landscape. That is why eastern peoples rely on cavalry and not infantry, rely on speed and not durability

Han Shot First wrote...
Back to armor...

For someone who generally prefers armor concepts that have realistic designs as a base, I might be in the minority in not having a problem with "boob armor." I just chalk it up to being the female equivalent of the muscled cuirass that was sometimes worn by soldiers in Hellenistic armies or by Roman officers.

Men chest is different with women, if you don't wear any shirt, no one care, but if women don't wear any shirt, think about it. So, armor that look like men muscular body is nothing, but armor look like boob? That's ridiculous and shameful...

For generations women cover up breasts via clothing, but then wearing boob armor? You know that women body and sex is taboo in ancient time, especially medieval. But most games totally disregard this and designing boob armor, that is modern thinking and not medieval thinking

Modifié par Qistina, 09 octobre 2013 - 02:28 .

[Br3admax]

1. If by poison you mean he caught a fever, then yes.
2. Did you just say that calvary is not important? They were among some of the most elite troops in the Greco-Roman      empires.
3. Calvary is not only for charges, and most eastern armies actually used them as archers.
4. That thing you just said about armor, makes no sense, and shirts don't hide boobs.
5. Women actually showed of breasts more in ancient times, and in medieval times, unless you were a noblewoman, people actually were not that strict about it.

In short, that entire post was wrong.

Modifié par Br3ad, 09 octobre 2013 - 02:33 .

[Boycott Bioware]

1. If by poison you mean he caught a fever, then yes.
2. Did you just say that calvary is not important? They were among some of the most elite troops in the Greco-Roman empires.
3. Calvary is not only for charges, and most eastern armies actually used them as archers.
4. That thing you just said about armor, makes no sense, and shirts don't hide boobs.
5. Women actually showed of breasts more in ancient times, and in medieval times, unless you were a noblewoman, people actually were not that strict about it.

In short, that entire post was wrong.

1.he got poisoned by means he got assassinated because of his attempt to change Greek into Greek-Persian-Egyptian in his policy. Greek people don't like it
2. i don't say it is not important, i say western cavalry is not main army
3. Yes, but cavalry charge is eastern way of battle, eastern have weak infantry.
4. Shirt hide boobs, depends on what shirt.
5. Oh really?

In short, denial is a bliss

[Br3admax]

1. No. Just no. Go read a history book. If that's what you really believe, then keep going on being the only person to believe that. Alexander was loved by the Greek people. Alexander adored them in turn.
2. No army is mainly calvary. There aren't enough horses for that.
3. Every eastern army is not the same, and some of them had quite strong infantry. China comes to mind. In fact, very few of them primarily relied on cavalry.
4. No, it really doesn't.
5. I don't think even you know what you are arguing anymore.

Seriously, wut?

[The Hierophant]

lol

[Boycott Bioware]

1. No. Just no. Go read a history book. If that's what you really believe, then keep going on being the only person to believe that. Alexander was loved by the Greek people. Alexander adored them in turn.
2. No army is mainly calvary. There aren't enough horses for that.
3. Every eastern army is not the same, and some of them had quite strong infantry. China comes to mind. In fact, very few of them primarily relied on cavalry.
4. No, it really doesn't.
5. I don't think even you know what you are arguing anymore.

Seriously, wut?

1. No, he got poisoned, Alexander no longer Greek, he's Macedonian anyway even Greek don't consider Macedonian a Greek but that is another issue, he have a dream to create new race. Alexandria is his dream where Greek, Persian and Egyptian merged as new race and having new religion by combining all cultures and religion. You know that Ptolemy was Greek? Egyptians Pharaohs was Greek after Alexander time. Seleucid Empire is Greek-Persian empire. After his death leave the world into unique state in which lead to Roman rising
2. Eastern army is mainly cavalry
3. China is FAR EAST, i am talking about east not Far East
4. Whatever
5. I don't want to argue something not worth to argue

Western peoples are arrogant

[Heimdall]

Qistina wrote...

1. No, he got poisoned, Alexander no longer Greek, he's Macedonian anyway even Greek don't consider Macedonian a Greek but that is another issue, he have a dream to create new race. Alexandria is his dream where Greek, Persian and Egyptian merged as new race and having new religion by combining all cultures and religion. You know that Ptolemy was Greek? Egyptians Pharaohs was Greek after Alexander time. Seleucid Empire is Greek-Persian empire. After his death leave the world into unique state in which lead to Roman rising
2. Eastern army is mainly cavalry
3. China is FAR EAST, i am talking about east not Far East
4. Whatever
5. I don't want to argue something not worth to argue

Western peoples are arrogant

1. Western people have been taking history courses their entire lives.  Alexander was a figure of particular interest to me.  He died of disease caught likely in India, not poison.  He was certainly a visionary, but that doesn't change the facts.
2.Only if the force is small.  For larger armies, providing that many horses becomes unfeasible no matter where you live.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 09 octobre 2013 - 03:09 .

[Boycott Bioware]

1. Western people have been taking history courses their entire lives. Alexander was a figure of particular interest to me. He died of disease caught likely in India, not poison. He was certainly a visionary, but that doesn't change the facts.
2.Only if the force is small. For larger armies, providing that many horses becomes unfeasible.

Eastern peoples also taking history cause their entire live. The city of Alexandria (Iskandariah) is in Egypt if you don't already know.  Zulqarnain in Qoran is debatable Alexander the Great (other candidate is Cyrus the Great). He failed in India and afterward lead to his downfall. He got poisoned and thus stop is dream to come true

Greek are proud people, they never want to become something else, Alexander dream is to create a new world and new race with new religion, his dream never come true because of his death

Edit :Qoran mention Zulqarnain, popular study relate Zulqarnain with Alexander, thus Iskandar Zulqarnian is the popular name among Muslims

Modifié par Qistina, 09 octobre 2013 - 03:27 .

[Heimdall]

Qistina wrote...
Eastern peoples also taking history cause their entire live. The city of Alexandria (Iskandariah) is in Egypt if you don't already know.  Zulqarnain in Qoran is debatable Alexander the Great (other candidate is Cyrus the Great). He failed in India and afterward lead to his downfall. He got poisoned and thus stop is dream to come true

Greek are proud people, they never want to become something else, Alexander dream is to create a new world and new race with new religion, his dream never come true because of his death

Edit :Qoran mention Zulqarnain, popular study relate Zulqarnain with Alexander, thus Iskandar Zulqarnian is the popular name among Muslims

Yes, I know Alexander named a city after himself in Egypt.  I'm not thick.  I don't see how a mythologized figure in the Qoran, who may very well not be based on Alexander at all, has anything to do with this.  He died of fever, and his empire collapsed because he left no ready heir to rule it, leading to the infighting that carved the remains of the empire up between his generals.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 09 octobre 2013 - 04:00 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Just the one Alexandria?

http://en.wikipedia....disambiguation)

[Han Shot First]

The Woldan wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Back to armor...

For someone who generally prefers armor concepts that have realistic designs as a base, I might be in the minority in not having a problem with "boob armor." I just chalk it up to being the female equivalent of the muscled cuirass that was sometimes worn by soldiers in Hellenistic armies or by Roman officers.




Because there are examples in history of a muscled cuirass for men, I'm able to suspend disbelief on armor designs crafted to display feminine features. I see them as being in the same broad category of armor. Also I understand that for the devs it can be difficult to differentiate female characters wearing plate from male ones so that they don't just look like women wearing male clothing, without adding some feminine features to the armor.

So for female armor in DA:I I guess I would support a range of designs for female armor, with some having feminine features and others being completely identical to the male versions. I'm all for allowing the player to decide whether they want their FemWarrior to have feminine features, or whether they prefer to look like Joan of Arc or Brienne of Tarth.

The only thing I'm absolutely against regarding female armor is the ridiculous designs where the female character has more exposed skin than armor. The infamous plate or chain mail bikinis do not allow for the suspension of disbelief, are way over-sexualized, and don't belong in the game IMO.

I really agree with this. I just want my Inquisitor to have armor that shows off his muscles. And hopefully we can get a scene with our potential love interest checking us out in our armor. Kinda like Kaidan's scene in ME3.

Apples to oranges comparison, if female armor has extra space to show off their ''glands'' male armor should have cod pieces.



Are you ok with that? No? Well maybe its because showing off your boobs and balls and d1ck while wearing armor in a battle is just plain stupid and unpractical?

You're the one comparing apples to oranges.

The closest equivalent to 'boob armor' is the muscled cuirass worn by hoplites and Roman officers. I really don't think the "its not realistic" argument holds water when there was male armor that existed that served the same exact function. How is it that plate armor sculpted in the shape of a woman's chest is "impractical," when there are examples in history of male cuirasses sculpted in the shape of a shirtless male's chest?

The female equivalent to the codpiece you posted above would be armor with something that looks like a vagina. I'd rather neither appear in the game as they'd look silly and ridiculous.

Now if you were to argue against 'boob armor' because you find it equally silly looking, you'd be entitled to that opinion and your argument would be no less valid than mine. In either case its just a matter of personal preference.

But if you are going to argue against it based on practicality or realism....that argument utterly fails.

[Br3admax]

I believe he only made the first one. All the others are in his and that one's honor, the latter suffering since its founding. Well, maybe not. I'm a little rusty on all the Alexandrias outside of FFIX.

[Heimdall]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Just the one Alexandria?

http://en.wikipedia....disambiguation)

Many, yes, not to mention the one he named after his horse.  He was an egomaniac.

[Heimdall]

Br3ad wrote...

I believe he only made the first one. All the others are in his and that one's honor, the latter suffering since its founding. Well, maybe not. I'm a little rusty on all the Alexandrias outside of FFIX.

He actually founded several.  He loved to stamp his name on things.

[Br3admax]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I believe he only made the first one. All the others are in his and that one's honor, the latter suffering since its founding. Well, maybe not. I'm a little rusty on all the Alexandrias outside of FFIX.

He actually founded several.  He loved to stamp his name on things.

"lexander does have horns, you know? 

[Boycott Bioware]

Lord Aesir wrote...
Yes, I know Alexander named a city after himself in Egypt. I'm not thick. I don't see how a mythologized figure in the Qoran, who may very well not be based on Alexander at all, has anything to do with this. He died of fever, and his empire collapsed because he left no ready heir to rule it, leading to the infighting that carved the remains of the empire up between his generals.

So, surely the peoples of that city and it's surrounding peoples also learn about Alexander history, not just western peoples. Alexander effect the east more than effecting the west. He conquer the east, up to India remember

So don't ever say eastern peoples are inferior than the west in historical study

[Vilegrim]

Br3ad wrote...

1. No. Just no. Go read a history book. If that's what you really believe, then keep going on being the only person to believe that. Alexander was loved by the Greek people. Alexander adored them in turn.
2. No army is mainly calvary. There aren't enough horses for that.
3. Every eastern army is not the same, and some of them had quite strong infantry. China comes to mind. In fact, very few of them primarily relied on cavalry.
4. No, it really doesn't.
5. I don't think even you know what you are arguing anymore.

Seriously, wut?

1) He may have been poisoned, it is not very likely, but at least some historians think it was possible.  Wouldn't go claiming it as undisputed truth tho

2) the Mongols and Huns would like a word.

3) True.  Steppe peoples tended to but settled civilisations tended to have infantry forces as the main wing of the army.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Han Shot First wrote...

For someone who generally prefers armor concepts that have realistic designs as a base, I might be in the minority in not having a problem with "boob armor." I just chalk it up to being the female equivalent of the muscled cuirass that was sometimes worn by soldiers in Hellenistic armies or by Roman officers.


The closest equivalent to 'boob armor' is the muscled cuirass worn by hoplites and Roman officers. I really don't think the "its not realistic" argument holds water when there was male armor that existed that served the same exact function. How is it that plate armor sculpted in the shape of a woman's chest is "impractical," when there are examples in history of male cuirasses sculpted in the shape of a shirtless male's chest?

Yeah, some kings and nobled did put large codpieces on their armor. Wether that armor was actually used in comabt or was it purely ceremonial? I'd guess ceremonial.

For the human chest shaped curiass - funny thing is the medieval breastplate shape is just better at deflecting/protecting.


So no, boob armor by itself isn't compeltley unrealistic.
However, it offering equal protection to non-boob armor IS.

So let ther be boob plate and chainmail bikinis - as long as they are inferior to proper armor.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
]It does because they didn't come out of it unscathed and like I said in that case it doesn't matter if you're wearing fullplate,Champion armor or a chainmail bikini since the characters are already unnaturally resilient armor only comes down to aesthetics and stats.

Nope.
People did survive lightning strikes - some were burned, some had internal damage, but some were mostly OK.

Like I said, party-based real-time games always have characters more durable then normal. That doens't make armor pointless, since that endurance is still very much limited.

Considering mages can conjure infernos and blizzards I doubt it.

And what's the temperature of that inferno? How does magical fire work compared to normal fire? Waht's the voltage of a mages lightning? Does it depend on the mages power or it is it fixed?

With magic, so many things are unknown that you can't make definitive claims.

So basically make the character both psychic and have unnatural reflexes.

Eh? What?
How does "if you carry a shileld on your right and you get hit from your left, you get no deflection" translate into that?

[Squire]

Qistina wrote...

For generations women cover up breasts via clothing, but then wearing boob armor? You know that women body and sex is taboo in ancient time, especially medieval. But most games totally disregard this and designing boob armor, that is modern thinking and not medieval thinking

One word: corsets.

Also, it might be taboo in Catholic periods, but it wasn't taboo in Roman times, before they converted to Christianity. Since it's most likely religion that made it taboo, if that religion doesn't exist in a setting, it wouldn't necessarily be taboo. That's the difference between believability and accuracy.

...(codpiece)...

The difference is: the codpiece is unnecessary. I don't know if breasts are necessary for a harness to properly fit a woman, but I'd guess that there needs to be some room for them, since I do know that a harness needs to fit properly (hence why a proper harness needs to be custom-fit to the wearer). I'm not in favour of armour that "shows off" body parts either, so any boob armour needs to be minimal.

Western peoples are arrogant

I protest!!! 

[Heimdall]

Qistina wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
Yes, I know Alexander named a city after himself in Egypt. I'm not thick. I don't see how a mythologized figure in the Qoran, who may very well not be based on Alexander at all, has anything to do with this. He died of fever, and his empire collapsed because he left no ready heir to rule it, leading to the infighting that carved the remains of the empire up between his generals.

So, surely the peoples of that city and it's surrounding peoples also learn about Alexander history, not just western peoples. Alexander effect the east more than effecting the west. He conquer the east, up to India remember

So don't ever say eastern peoples are inferior than the west in historical study

When did I ever say that?  I don't think eastern historical studies are inferior, I think your, you individually, historical knowledge is inferior.  

[Giant ambush beetle]

Squire wrote...

The difference is: the codpiece is unnecessary. I don't know if breasts are necessary for a harness to properly fit a woman, but I'd guess that there needs to be some room for them, since I do know that a harness needs to fit properly (hence why a proper harness needs to be custom-fit to the wearer).

A regular breast plate offers more than enough room for natural breasts. There are medieval festivals where women wear armor and do some serious show fighting with normal flat plate armor. I've never seen a female fighter wearing boob armor, ever, they can only be found at larp fantasy festivals and they look even more ridiculous when you see a real person wear them. 

When wearing plate armor there is quite some space between your chest and the plate itself so you can wear a gambison , your chest has room to expand so you can breathe and a safety margin for dents so you can still breathe when the plate is dented in. 

Just ask her about boob plate, she does real jousting. This, ladies and gentlemen, is a plate armor which is worn and actively used in (show) combat by a woman.







And it looks fabulous compared to the usual ridiculously pompous fantasy garbage.

Modifié par The Woldan , 09 octobre 2013 - 11:14 .

[Br3admax]

Vilegrim wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

1. No. Just no. Go read a history book. If that's what you really believe, then keep going on being the only person to believe that. Alexander was loved by the Greek people. Alexander adored them in turn.
2. No army is mainly calvary. There aren't enough horses for that.
3. Every eastern army is not the same, and some of them had quite strong infantry. China comes to mind. In fact, very few of them primarily relied on cavalry.
4. No, it really doesn't.
5. I don't think even you know what you are arguing anymore.

Seriously, wut?

1) He may have been poisoned, it is not very likely, but at least some historians think it was possible.  Wouldn't go claiming it as undisputed truth tho

2) the Mongols and Huns would like a word.

3) True.  Steppe peoples tended to but settled civilisations tended to have infantry forces as the main wing of the army.

1) He wasn't poisoned. Saying he could have been does not change that. And he certainly was not killed for the reasons given.
2) Relying primarily on calvary does not make your army primarily calvary, as already discussed. Every infantry man was trained to be cavalry, but there are not enough horses anywhere in the world to make most of your army cavalry.(I've grown sick of the word cavalry.) 

[Han Shot First]

I agree that a normal breastplate or cuirass would function fine for women. If there are ones sculpted to display feminine features it would be more of a stylistic thing like the muscled cuirass, not anything done for pragmatic reasons.

While all armor designs should have a pragmatic design (offering protection to vitals) as a base, many real world armors did also include artistic or stylistic flourishes that had nothing to do with protection. Whether that was feathers, spikes, horns, or horse hair plumes on helmets, muscled cuirasses or engraved art on breastplates, or painted designs on shields, armor (and shields) were not always simply utilitarian in design. This was even more true for the armor worn by nobles in many periods.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Why are we having these hypothetical discussions on boob armor and such? Bioware has demonstrated more than enough times, even in dragon age 2, that they don't make boob armor.

Meredith, Aveline, Female Hawke, Cassandra, everyone who wears armor seems to get good armor, male or female. Rogue and mage armors are also like this, imo, where they haven't sexualized the clothing designs for the female characters. I'd even go so far as to put out that DA2 did a better and less sexualized job at making female armor than Origins.