513 réponses à ce sujet

[MakutaDax]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

To me we're good until we end up like TERA not fond of my heroines all looking like they belong in a fantasy porno.

Agreed.

[Shadow Fox]

MakutaDax wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

To me we're good until we end up like TERA not fond of my heroines all looking like they belong in a fantasy porno.

Agreed.

To clarify I have nothing against bikini and stiletto armor as long as I get non bikini and stiletto options for my toons.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

To me we're good until we end up like TERA not fond of my heroines all looking like they belong in a fantasy porno.

Yes.... I see what you mean. (saving this for my bunk later)

Even the me aren't spared:




However...this IS Terra.
There are some real jewls in thar.

check out these incredibly functional armors:

http://www.blogcdn.c...ery24410471.png

http://i.imgur.com/9NNRM.jpg

http://tera-online.c...opori_m_h20.jpg

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 03 octobre 2013 - 08:29 .

[Deebo305]

People want realism but play DRAGON AGE!? There is nothing AT ALL realistic about DA whether it be Origins or 2.

Seriously if you want realism then stop playing videogames is general because actual combat in standard run of the mill plate armor won't sell anything. There would be no mages, no elves or dearest just people in cities or brown and gray doing calvary charges and complaining about living past 40

No thank you sir, I'll take my over the top cake and eat it

[Boycott Bioware]

There are some nice realistic fantasy armors....such as....

This...


And this....


But i love this...this one is real armor of course


Fantasy doesn't mean exaggeration

[crimzontearz]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

To me we're good until we end up like TERA not fond of my heroines all looking like they belong in a fantasy porno.

Yes.... I see what you mean. (saving this for my bunk later)

Even the me aren't spared:




However...this IS Terra.
There are some real jewls in thar.

check out these incredibly functional armors:

http://www.blogcdn.c...ery24410471.png

http://i.imgur.com/9NNRM.jpg

http://tera-online.c...opori_m_h20.jpg

O.O


 

 

 
She looks........lovely

[Deebo305]

The problem I'm seeing is that people have this full mid evil/ dark ages vibe when it comes to the armors. DA isn't taking inspiration solely from that particular era. It be very dull game in which case

[Plaintiff]

I don't care if fictional armor would be "realisitic" or "functional" in real life. The whole point of fiction is that it's NOT real life, and is not bound by the same rules.

I hope not all the high-level armor is as bulky, chunky and spiky as it was in the previous games. I like a sleek look.

[Former_Fiend]

 I rather like the Ashen Cuirass. Not exactly realistic, but not what I'd call "over the top", either. A good middle ground, in my opinion.

[crimzontearz]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't care if fictional armor would be "realisitic" or "functional" in real life. The whole point of fiction is that it's NOT real life, and is not bound by the same rules.

I hope not all the high-level armor is as bulky, chunky and spiky as it was in the previous games. I like a sleek look.

the word verisimilitude means nothing to you?

It's ok, let's just let designers be lazy right?

Modifié par crimzontearz, 03 octobre 2013 - 11:33 .

[Former_Fiend]

 Armor of the Wall is another one where I just love the look of it. Shame the stats were rubbish; never used it. But damn, it looks sweet. Would love to see something like this in DAI.

[crimzontearz]

simfamSP wrote...

Yes... realistic armour please. Boring old plate mail, maybe add some chain.

Colour? Ye gods! Do you know how expensive dye is?!

you mean like this?

[Plaintiff]

crimzontearz wrote...
the word verisimilitude means nothing to you?

I know exactly what verisimilitude means, and it's not what you think it means.

It's ok, let's just let designers be lazy right?

That is not even close to what I said. Try reading people's posts instead of making up arguments in your head.

[crimzontearz]

Plaintiff wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
the word verisimilitude means nothing to you?

I know exactly what verisimilitude means, and it's not what you think it means.

It's ok, let's just let designers be lazy right?

That is not even close to what I said. Try reading people's posts instead of making up arguments in your head.

are you pretending to be a obtuse or is that REALLY the way you are?


 
First off Verisimilitude is the quality of appearing real, in narrative fields it has a specific connotation that is "the appearance to be real/true given the premise of the fiction"

An example, in Mass Effect the weapons stick to Shepard's armor, that is verosimile because, while not realistic, it appears to be true given the premise of the fiction (mass effect fields keep them there, you can even see the emitters)

Is there a piece of fiction that justified the functionality of super spiky armor? Or its supposed insane weight? Is it Sayan armor so it bends for the user? No? Then it is not verosimile, and justifying it is justifying laziness. I do not care no if you believe that fantasy fiction is somehow granted a free pass from having to be verosimile or coherent or that Bioware is granted said free pass on having to design stilishly but functional pieces, it is obvious that SOME people disagree

[Plaintiff]

crimzontearz wrote... 
First off Verisimilitude is the quality of appearing real, in narrative fields it has a specific connotation that is "the appearance to be real/true given the premise of the fiction"

Which has nothing to do with the appearance of armor in Dragon Age.

An example, in Mass Effect the weapons stick to Shepard's armor, that is verosimile because, while not realistic, it appears to be true given the premise of the fiction (mass effect fields keep them there, you can even see the emitters)

Is there a piece of fiction that justified the functionality of super spiky armor? Or its supposed insane weight? Is it Sayan armor so it bends for the user? No? Then it is not verosimile, and justifying it is justifying laziness.

The look of the armor doesn't need any justification at all.

How it works isn't important. Your mistake is assuming that Thedas functions anything like the real world in the first place.

I do not care no if you believe that fantasy fiction is somehow granted a free pass from having to be verosimile or coherent or that Bioware is granted said free pass on having to design stilishly but functional pieces, it is obvious that SOME people disagree

You also do not care what I actually said, because you're just spouting irrelevancies.

[crimzontearz]

Plaintiff wrote...

crimzontearz wrote... 
First off Verisimilitude is the quality of appearing real, in narrative fields it has a specific connotation that is "the appearance to be real/true given the premise of the fiction"

Which has nothing to do with the appearance of armor in Dragon Age.

An example, in Mass Effect the weapons stick to Shepard's armor, that is verosimile because, while not realistic, it appears to be true given the premise of the fiction (mass effect fields keep them there, you can even see the emitters)

Is there a piece of fiction that justified the functionality of super spiky armor? Or its supposed insane weight? Is it Sayan armor so it bends for the user? No? Then it is not verosimile, and justifying it is justifying laziness.

The look of the armor doesn't need any justification at all.

How it works isn't important. Your mistake is assuming that Thedas functions anything like the real world in the first place.

I do not care no if you believe that fantasy fiction is somehow granted a free pass from having to be verosimile or coherent or that Bioware is granted said free pass on having to design stilishly but functional pieces, it is obvious that SOME people disagree

You also do not care what I actually said, because you're just spouting irrelevancies.

1: uh...yes it does, if the armor looks utterly unwearable or on the lines of chainmail bikini it is completely ridiculous given the premise of the fiction

2: how it works is very important to certain people who like to immerse themselves in the lore, so far NONE of the abridged material or EU works suggests that somehow mundane phyisics work differently in Thedas, but you are willing to assume that because....well because you are grasping at straws to justify laziness, just like people who justified stripperific outfits in ME2

3: irrelevancies that you cannot argue against apparently as you dodged all of them

[Plaintiff]

crimzontearz wrote...
1: uh...yes it does, if the armor looks utterly unwearable or on the lines of chainmail bikini it is completely ridiculous given the premise of the fiction

Explain to me how "the premise of the fiction" in anyway contradicts the design of the armor.

2: how it works is very important to certain people who like to immerse themselves in the lore, so far NONE of the abridged material or EU works suggests that somehow mundane phyisics work differently in Thedas,

The lore doesn't have to explain jack-squat. Thedas is not Earth, so why would I assume that they work the same way and follow the same scientific laws? The default assumption, if there must be one, is that they don't.

but you are willing to assume that because....well because you are grasping at straws to justify laziness, just like people who justified stripperific outfits in ME2

I'm not "justifying" anything. Nothing needs to be justified. I'm applying the exact same logic I apply to every single aspect of every single work of fiction, be it novel, film or videogame. I don't assume anything, ever.

If the artists are "lazy" because their work lacks "realism", then every fantasy artist must be lazy.

If spiky armour is so lazy, why don't you draw some right now, to demonstrate how easy it is to do, compared to a 'realistic' suit of armour. Surely you can whip up something of DA2's quality in just a few seconds. Go ahead, I'll wait here.

3: irrelevancies that you cannot argue against apparently as you dodged all of them

I addressed all your points, even though they are stupid points that have nothing to do with what I'm actually saying.

You, on the other hand, are not addresing my argument, you're just making crap up and pretending I said it, so you can go on some tangential rant about "artistic laziness" that actually has nothing to do with anything I said, or even anything to do with the topic at hand. And on top of that, it's an utterly baseless argument, since you've failed to explain, let alone demonstrate, why 'unrealistic' armor is any easier to draw than 'realistic' armor.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 03 octobre 2013 - 01:43 .

[CaptainBlackGold]

On the "verisimilitude" issue - almost anything can be justified if the writer(s) at least give a nod to the reader/player of why they do things in-world/game, the way they do.

For example I once wrote a novel where I wanted to poke fun at the acrimony hurled at "chain mail bikini babes." So I told the reader that the world was incredibly hot (where a lot of clothing/armor would be unbearable), immensely humid and with a high oxygen content. This meant that traditional armors made of iron/steel would rust, leather armor would rot and anyone who wore full coverage armor would suffer from debilitating fungus infections. So therefore my characters could run around in skimpy attires (including the "Jock Strap of Doom."

So all that the DA writers have to do is insert one little comment, somewhere in the game that certain cloth/leather/metal armors have been magically infused with some sort of protective spell that makes them the equivalent of traditional full coverage armors and they can dress their characters up any way they want. In fact, when in game I see some piece of armor that is thoroughly "impractical" I just head canon that magic being so prevalent, that somehow that mid-riff bearing (Dalish leather, DAO), pantsless wearing (looking at you Isabella!) "armor" just has been enchanted somehow.

Works for me... and I get to enjoy whatever "eye candy" armors I want.

[crimzontearz]

No, you have not.

The premise of the fiction does not specify that, somehow, spiky cumbersome fantasy armor is practical in Thedas, your justification is "Thedas is not Earth thus no one has to justify anything" if that is the best you can do or if that is really how far you are willing to suspend your disbelief this conversation is going nowhere.

For the record I have absolutely nothing against super stylish armor when the setting/mood/themes/fiction of the game calls for it, for instance Darkaiders 2, but since you asked, I do not need to draw a more verosimile/realistic fantasy armor, a good example can be found, posted by me, a few posts back


 
Edit: also, unrealistic armor is not easier to draw, I never said that. For a person without the proper knowledge tho it is harder to DESIGN...there is a huge difference and it is quite self evident

Modifié par crimzontearz, 03 octobre 2013 - 02:01 .

[Plaintiff]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

On the "verisimilitude" issue - almost anything can be justified if the writer(s) at least give a nod to the reader/player of why they do things in-world/game, the way they do.

For example I once wrote a novel where I wanted to poke fun at the acrimony hurled at "chain mail bikini babes." So I told the reader that the world was incredibly hot (where a lot of clothing/armor would be unbearable), immensely humid and with a high oxygen content. This meant that traditional armors made of iron/steel would rust, leather armor would rot and anyone who wore full coverage armor would suffer from debilitating fungus infections. So therefore my characters could run around in skimpy attires (including the "Jock Strap of Doom."

So all that the DA writers have to do is insert one little comment, somewhere in the game that certain cloth/leather/metal armors have been magically infused with some sort of protective spell that makes them the equivalent of traditional full coverage armors and they can dress their characters up any way they want. In fact, when in game I see some piece of armor that is thoroughly "impractical" I just head canon that magic being so prevalent, that somehow that mid-riff bearing (Dalish leather, DAO), pantsless wearing (looking at you Isabella!) "armor" just has been enchanted somehow.

Works for me... and I get to enjoy whatever "eye candy" armors I want.

All they actually have to do is nothing at all. Fantasy authors do not and should not have to say "this world is different from the real world and here's why", because that's immediatly apparent, not to mention, the entire point of the genre. Their universe is the way it is, and it doesn't need justification anymore than our real universe does.

In any case, I wouldn't accept such a flimsy in-world justification because the problems I have with skimpy armor on women have nothing to do with "realism". There are plenty of other reasons why the trope is bad and shouldn't be used.

You could hypothetically write a fantasy story that attempts to 'justify' rape by saying "literally every single women is a friendzoning cow and if the men didn't commit rape the human race would literally go extinct". But just because you can come up with an in-world justification for it doesn't mean you should do it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 03 octobre 2013 - 02:01 .

[Plaintiff]

crimzontearz wrote...

No, you have not.

The premise of the fiction does not specify that, somehow, spiky cumbersome fantasy armor is practical in Thedas, your justification is "Thedas is not Earth thus no one has to justify anything" if that is the best you can do or if that is really how far you are willing to suspend your disbelief this conversation is going nowhere.

There's a lot of things that the premise of the fiction doesn't specify or justify.

It doesn't explain why dreams involve interfacing with another dimension. It doesn't explain how dragons manage to fly, or how they manage to breathe fire without blowing themselves up. It doesn't specify how non-mages are able to summon animals from thin air, paralyse people by singing, or turn themselves into living shadows that are apparently invisible.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you accept some of these things unquestionably, in which case, you're a giant hypocrite.

Thedas isn't Earth and nobody does have to justify anything. The specifics of how a fictional universe works are unimportant, unless they are being dealt with directly as part of the narrative. You might as well ask why our universe functions the way it does, and not some other way.

For the record I have absolutely nothing against super stylish armor when the setting/mood/themes/fiction of the game calls for it, for instance Darkaiders 2, but since you asked, I do not need to draw a more verosimile/realistic fantasy armor, a good example can be found, posted by me, a few posts back

Edit: also, unrealistic armor is not easier to draw, I never said that. For a person without the proper knowledge tho it is harder to DESIGN...there is a huge difference and it is quite self evident

If unrealisitic armor is not easier to draw, then on what grounds do you call the artists 'lazy'?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 03 octobre 2013 - 02:13 .

[crimzontearz]

Uh because as I said it is harder to DESIGN,

Design ≠ Draw

Also I am willing to suspend my disbelief for supernatural things in a fantasy setting, not for mundane physics/ergonomics, there is a huge difference between the two but, again, if you are ok with giving a free pass to designers or writers "because it is fiction and as such it does not have to explain anything" then good for you. In the meantime I do not justify laziness.

No seriously out of insane masochistic curiosity how exactly did you feel about Jack's nipple belt outfits in ME2?

Modifié par crimzontearz, 03 octobre 2013 - 02:27 .

[MakutaDax]

crimzontearz wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Yes... realistic armour please. Boring old plate mail, maybe add some chain.

Colour? Ye gods! Do you know how expensive dye is?!

you mean like this?

And that is what I do not want happening to DA. I don't like that armor, it's not enough "fantasy" for me. Also, I've never liked The Witcher, so using an image of his armor as though DA should be emulating it...? I like DA's past armor scheme and I don't want it to adopt the Witcher's, thank you.

I enjoy diversity, real diversity. Realistic armor, along the lines this thread is suggesting, just wouldn't offer the kind of diversity I like. Instead of trying to make all armor "realistic" plate with no color or decoration, I would suggest making an armor set or two that fits this description to give players like yourself the chance to wear something more to your personal taste. And given what they've said about Inquisition's crafting system, you should be able to upgrade that armor and wear it for as long as you want. That way you get what you want and I get what I want; compromise is a lovely thing. :happy:

[Plaintiff]

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh because as I said it is harder to DESIGN,

Design ≠ Draw

Also I am willing to suspend my disbelief for supernatural things in a fantasy setting, not for mundany physics/ergonomics, there is a huge difference between the two but, again, if you are ok with giving a free pass to designers or writers "because it is fiction and as such it does not have to explain anything" then good for you. In the meantime I do not justify laziness.

There's no difference at all. Under Earth rules about gravity and how flight works, dragons could never exist. They never explain dragons, but you accept them because it's"supernatural" (which isn't actually the right word to use), even though that's not actually been stated.

For all you know, clothing in Thedas has "supernatural" elements too, but you instead assume that it follows Earth's "rules".

Either everything should be made to justify the underlying process that makes it able to exist, or nothing should. Any other stance is just hypocrisy.

No seriously put of insane masochistic curiosity how exactly did you feel about Jack's nipple belt outfits in ME2?

Jack's choice of attire is proven to be impractical in the Mass Effect setting, so it's not actually the same situation at all. But there's nothing wrong with a character dressing impractically, characters are not and should not be obligated to only act in a practical manner, or be role models.

Jack is not practical, nor is she intended to be any sort of role model.  She has a serious disregard for her own personal safety, is a blatant histrionic attention-seeker and is overconfident in her biotic abilities. Her clothing is a reflection of that attitude, it wouldn't make sense for her to dress practically.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 03 octobre 2013 - 02:44 .