513 réponses à ce sujet

[d4eaming]

Fantasy armor in my fantasy game? The horror!

[crimzontearz]

d4eaming wrote...

Fantasy armor in my fantasy game? The horror!

some fantasy games use realistic/verosimile armor


 
Your point?

[AresKeith]

d4eaming wrote...

Fantasy armor in my fantasy game? The horror!

When fantasy armor starts going into bikini chainmail area then yes it is horror

[GreyLycanTrope]

Right in the shiny part.

[Vilegrim]

MakutaDax wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Yes... realistic armour please. Boring old plate mail, maybe add some chain.

Colour? Ye gods! Do you know how expensive dye is?!

you mean like this?

And that is what I do not want happening to DA. I don't like that armor, it's not enough "fantasy" for me. Also, I've never liked The Witcher, so using an image of his armor as though DA should be emulating it...? I like DA's past armor scheme and I don't want it to adopt the Witcher's, thank you.

I enjoy diversity, real diversity. Realistic armor, along the lines this thread is suggesting, just wouldn't offer the kind of diversity I like. Instead of trying to make all armor "realistic" plate with no color or decoration, I would suggest making an armor set or two that fits this description to give players like yourself the chance to wear something more to your personal taste. And given what they've said about Inquisition's crafting system, you should be able to upgrade that armor and wear it for as long as you want. That way you get what you want and I get what I want; compromise is a lovely thing. :happy:

Have you ever seen real armour? In it's thousands of varieties? Roamn Chain mail, looks different to viking chain looks different from middle eastern chain.. then you get the varieties and styles of lamellar, the different types of plate etc etc. Different clours of treatments and lamination, engraving, embossing, trinkets nad talismans and medals wroyght into the armour.


Edit: but yes I hope their is away to avoid them, as well as 'weapon magic' in play I do not want Shoulders of Doom and a Sword of Earthquakes...they both do a fair job of shattering immersion for me.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 03 octobre 2013 - 06:05 .

[CaptainBlackGold]

Plaintiff wrote...

CaptainBlackGold wrote...
The no is in regards to "earth logic." Earth logic is the only one we have. If a fantasy universe has different rules than ours, then the reader must be informed of it somehow. Subtly it is done through the narrative and "how much" explanation depends on how close that universe is to ours and the purposes of the author. The fact of magic existing is one thing, how detailed the explanation of how it works is up to the purposes of the author.

Well obviously that's not true, or else we wouldn't be able to conceive of different logics in the first place.

And I completely disagree with the marshmallow land mass and custard sea argument. While one might write a children's book with such features, no one would write anything like this for an adult audience and expect to be taken seriously UNLESS there was some in game/story explanation of why THAT world differed so dramatically from OUR world. Verisimilitude demands some sort of explanation/acknowledgment of those differences.

Adults are often dumb and full of prejudices, just as much, if not more so than children, so what they take seriously isn't important. In any case, there's a whole genre known as absurdist fiction, and it's taken very seriously.

We already know for an absolute fact that there are planets in the universe that are nothing like Earth. If any life were to evolve on them, it would be completely unrecognisable to us. There could be a custard planet populated by sentient socks in our universe right now. But let's put that aside and focus on the hypothetical fictional one. Not only is an in-world explanation of the custard planet not required, but it's logically impossible to provide. Socks on a custard planet will obviously not perceive reality the same way that humans on Earth do. A sock will simply not be able to explain to another sock why their planet isn't made of rock, with a molten core. For socks, custard planets are the norm, and the mere idea of a rock planet is an absurd fantasy.

But going back to the main issue, enormous, spiky poltroons or as someone mentioned above, gigantic spit cups might look "awesome" to some artist playing around with various visual styles but they do break verisimilitude for anyone who knows something about how real armor looked and functioned. It will continue to annoy such people UNLESS there is some explanation, in game of why armor looks that way.

The explanation is that it's a different world. Knowledge of how "real armor" functions is only relevant to actual reality, or fiction that is explicitly attempting to emulate reality, which you won't find in the 'Fantasy' section.

Holding non-reality to the standards of reality is absurd. Of course armor in Thedas isn't an accurate portrayal of Earth armor. It's not Earth armor, and it's not supposed to be. It's Thedas armor. You might as well criticise an orange for not being a banana.

OK, I am not sure if you are being serious. There are not "different kinds of logic." Logic is simply a tool to ensure that the conclusion follows necessarily from the premises. So I really do not understand what you are trying to say here.

Secondly, in so far as we know, the "real" universe operates according to certain well defined principles. So no matter where you go in the universe, at the present state of our knowledge, any planet in any solar system would still have to operate by those same principles. Granted, we do not know all the principles yet, but if an author wants to be taken seriously, if he created a world such as you described, he would have to provide some reason to the reader, why that world operated the way he did, every time it differed from ours.

Without writing a thesis on this subject, I think the problem is how much real world knowledge a person possesses in these kinds of situations. The more you know about armor, weapons, tactics, etc., the more that obvious departures from it in a fantasy world jar - or break "verisimilitudes." Spikes on armor that are more danger to the wearer, than any opponent do not make sense in any world, anywhere.

Granted all of us are willing to suspend disbelief on some matters as long as we are not slapped in the face with it - i.e., that dragons can fly, magic is possible, etc. The armor/weapons style however does just this - you cannot avoid it because you see it all around you. That's one of the reasons so many people had problems with DA2's paratrooping wave mechanic - it just looked silly to have foes jumping down from a great height for no apparent reason.

So when we are given a sword that would weigh 50 pounds, it is not enough to say, "Well that's just Thedas and things work differently there." No, just "no:" anyone who has actually handled a real sword is going to shake his head because it breaks verisimilitude. If an author/game developer puts stuff in his fantasy world that breaks this verisimilitude, he risks being laughed at. The closer he makes his fantasy world, to the real world, the more it is on him to explain why and how his characters can do, what they do, when things work differently from ours.

Thus, holding a fantasy world to real world standards is certainly not "absurd" but a fundamental necessity. There must be a point of contact with the real world or the reader/player gets taken out of the game experience - for example, ME2's cat-suits and nipple covering "armors" just looked ridiculous when Miranda and Jack were exposed to the vacuum of space. A lot of people complained about that and many tried to come up with an in-game explanation using mass effect fields and such because it was just so jarring.

Granted, different people will expect different levels of explanation - but I would guess that the less a person understands how and why things work they way they do in the real world, the less explanation they need/desire in their fantasy ones.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Plaintiff cannot into logic?

How bigoted of him.

[Magdalena11]

I'll be happy if they leave the shelf off the top of the chestpieces. Running my mage around in champion armor made me think she was always prepared in case of food poisoning. I couldn't look at that thing and think anything other than emesis basin. I understand that some jousting armor featured a gorget that was meant to keep the point of a lance from entering the space between the chestpiece and helmet but there's no reason a mage would need it and for all classes, it was comically oversized.

The asymmetrical pauldrons were another source of annoyance. A s&b warrior might find increased armor on the sword arm helpful, but for a 2-handed weapon wielder the left arm would be closer to the enemy and require more protection. With warrior armor not being specific to shield wielders or not, the looks were sometimes a little strange. One of the reasons I like blood dragon armor - at least the shoulders are symmetrical so I can use it on Alistair or my warrior PC.

[Dieb]

I actually thought the entire artstyle of DA2 was amazing and very unique. It's in fact especially Hawke's mage armor that I always thought looks incredible - because it's unique, but still looks used, gritty and not shiny-superhero-flashy.

I'm just not okay with anime-esque combat style, but they seem to have reduced that anyways.

[draken-heart]

In a fantasy world where magic is apparently not-rare-not-common, and rogues, with traning, can make magical decoys of themselves, people are arguing over the "believability" of armor and weapon appearances?

People will find anything to fight over these days.

as for the combat, the problem is that most people when they think of combat, they think of armies duking it out on a battlefield. I liked the rogue combat style because it was less soldier-y and more outlaw/agile warrior. A rogue would not have the training of a soldier/warrior so they should look different in combat than a warrior.

Modifié par draken-heart, 03 octobre 2013 - 07:56 .

[Shadow Fox]

DarthSideus2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

To me we're good until we end up like TERA not fond of my heroines all looking like they belong in a fantasy porno.

Yes.... I see what you mean. (saving this for my bunk later)

Even the me aren't spared:




However...this IS Terra.
There are some real jewls in thar.

check out these incredibly functional armors:

http://www.blogcdn.c...ery24410471.png

http://i.imgur.com/9NNRM.jpg

http://tera-online.c...opori_m_h20.jpg

O.O


 

 

 
She looks........lovely

Hmm, now you've peeked my interest (Isabella, DAO). I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Isabella or Lelliana run around in that female armor once in a while. I guess the point of this thread is that some people like a more realistic look to their equipment, while probably still more people (myself included) enjoy a more "over-the-top" approach to equipment. It doesn't have to be as skimpy as this example, but I certainly wouldn't say no if some were included with the game.

The thing that gets me about this whole "realism" thing is that I see a lot of people asking for realistic looking equipment, but expecting "over-the-top" stats for their equipment. I hope that these people don't think that their ordinary armor and weapons are going to stand up against dragons, ogres, rock wraiths and the many other supernatural opponents in the DA universe without some supernatural augmentation of it's own.

So, this logically should come down to a question of aesthetics or style, as opposed to the functionality of how something looks. I hope they can include some of both, so we all can enjoy.

Me too.

[draken-heart]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DarthSideus2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

To me we're good until we end up like TERA not fond of my heroines all looking like they belong in a fantasy porno.

-snipity-

Yes.... I see what you mean. (saving this for my bunk later)

Even the me aren't spared:
-snipity-



However...this IS Terra.
There are some real jewls in thar.

check out these incredibly functional armors:

http://www.blogcdn.c...ery24410471.png

http://i.imgur.com/9NNRM.jpg

http://tera-online.c...opori_m_h20.jpg

O.O


 

 

 
She looks........lovely

Hmm, now you've peeked my interest (Isabella, DAO). I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Isabella or Lelliana run around in that female armor once in a while. I guess the point of this thread is that some people like a more realistic look to their equipment, while probably still more people (myself included) enjoy a more "over-the-top" approach to equipment. It doesn't have to be as skimpy as this example, but I certainly wouldn't say no if some were included with the game.

The thing that gets me about this whole "realism" thing is that I see a lot of people asking for realistic looking equipment, but expecting "over-the-top" stats for their equipment. I hope that these people don't think that their ordinary armor and weapons are going to stand up against dragons, ogres, rock wraiths and the many other supernatural opponents in the DA universe without some supernatural augmentation of it's own.

So, this logically should come down to a question of aesthetics or style, as opposed to the functionality of how something looks. I hope they can include some of both, so we all can enjoy.

Me too.

Strangely enough I agree. I would rather it be low end gear though, with higher level ones covering more.

Modifié par draken-heart, 03 octobre 2013 - 09:19 .

[Shadow Fox]

draken-heart wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DarthSideus2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

To me we're good until we end up like TERA not fond of my heroines all looking like they belong in a fantasy porno.

-snipity-

Yes.... I see what you mean. (saving this for my bunk later)

Even the me aren't spared:
-snipity-



However...this IS Terra.
There are some real jewls in thar.

check out these incredibly functional armors:

http://www.blogcdn.c...ery24410471.png

http://i.imgur.com/9NNRM.jpg

http://tera-online.c...opori_m_h20.jpg

O.O


 

 

 
She looks........lovely

Hmm, now you've peeked my interest (Isabella, DAO). I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Isabella or Lelliana run around in that female armor once in a while. I guess the point of this thread is that some people like a more realistic look to their equipment, while probably still more people (myself included) enjoy a more "over-the-top" approach to equipment. It doesn't have to be as skimpy as this example, but I certainly wouldn't say no if some were included with the game.

The thing that gets me about this whole "realism" thing is that I see a lot of people asking for realistic looking equipment, but expecting "over-the-top" stats for their equipment. I hope that these people don't think that their ordinary armor and weapons are going to stand up against dragons, ogres, rock wraiths and the many other supernatural opponents in the DA universe without some supernatural augmentation of it's own.

So, this logically should come down to a question of aesthetics or style, as opposed to the functionality of how something looks. I hope they can include some of both, so we all can enjoy.

Me too.

Strangely enough I agree. I would rather it be low end gear though, with higher level ones covering more.

...I was agreeing with the last line.^

[Squire]

I prefer a bit of beleivability (not realism because too much realism would totally destroy the fantasy element) in fantasy games, because I'm more into Tolkienesque/SoIaF style fantasy than modern anime.

So I'm in the "no to 8 foot long swords and Space Marine pauldrons" camp.

[Snowflake_in_Hel]

For your viewing enjoyment, a youtube video about a Viking sword:





Wassail.
Snjalrulfr.
werwulf.

Modifié par Snowflake_in_Hel, 03 octobre 2013 - 11:55 .

[Former_Fiend]

 I'm standing by these two;





As being my favorite from DA2, and would like to see more like them.

[AresKeith]

Even in a fantasy game armor has to atleast be believable

[draken-heart]

AresKeith wrote...

Even in a fantasy game armor has to atleast be believable

That does not mean fantasy HAS to HAVE realistic armor/armor that looks like real life ones.

Modifié par draken-heart, 04 octobre 2013 - 01:10 .

[AresKeith]

draken-heart wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Even in a fantasy game armor has to atleast be believable

That does not mean fantasy HAS to HAVE realistic armor/armor that looks like rewal life ones.

I didn't say realistic, believable and realistic are not the same thing

They could be based on the real life ones but altered 

Modifié par AresKeith, 04 octobre 2013 - 01:07 .

[draken-heart]

AresKeith wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Even in a fantasy game armor has to atleast be believable

That does not mean fantasy HAS to HAVE realistic armor/armor that looks like rewal life ones.

I didn't say realistic, believable and realistic are not the same thing

They could be based on the real life ones but altered 

Based on/looks like, Same thing.

[AresKeith]

draken-heart wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I didn't say realistic, believable and realistic are not the same thing

They could be based on the real life ones but altered 

Based on/looks like, Same thing.

I also said altered

Which is basically this:

Former_Fiend wrote...

 I'm standing by these two;





As being my favorite from DA2, and would like to see more like them.

This is what I consider believable

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

 I hope it's somewhat realistic. No more weird LARP-weapons like vanilla DA:O and none of DA2's ridiculousness. Cool looking, interesting weapons, sure, but how the deuce do these: 



http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130311212317/dragonage/images/6/6e/Hayder's_Razor.png

Look better than my Warden's modded Starfangs down here? (Two, because I'm a dirty cheater.)





I don't even know what you'd do with either of those DA2 ones. :S

Same goes for armour.

Modifié par SergeantSnookie, 04 octobre 2013 - 01:22 .

[Former_Fiend]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

 I hope it's somewhat realistic. No more weird LARP-weapons like vanilla DA:O and none of DA2's ridiculousness. Cool looking, interesting weapons, sure, but how the deuce do these: 



http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130311212317/dragonage/images/6/6e/Hayder's_Razor.png

I actually rather like the first one... or I would if it were a two-hander.

Always hated that second one, though.

[draken-heart]

AresKeith wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I didn't say realistic, believable and realistic are not the same thing

They could be based on the real life ones but altered 

Based on/looks like, Same thing.

This is what I consider believable

As long as the armor fits the setting, why should it be believable?

Modifié par draken-heart, 04 octobre 2013 - 01:45 .