216 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

FreshIstay wrote...

If they do it well and satisfy a customer like me who wants to see their former PC's, there will inevitably be people like you who didnt want to see it. So whatever they do they can't win, I personally think their appearances are going to be in some form of DLC.

Its not about not wanting to see it. Its about the impossible task of doing it well. Being disappointed about not seeing an old PC isn't nearly as bad as an appearance that completely ruins a person's fond memories.

Alistair couldn't even manage a one minute cameo in DA2 without embarassing himself. "Swooping is Bad."

[Taleroth]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A King-Consort is not a King, thus not a monarch. The modern equivalent is the US's "First Lady." Significant in some respects, sometimes ceremonially and even with possible political involvement. But not in line for the office.

I have seen this come up in the past. It's important to note that Ferelden doesn't work like say, Europe's feudal system. Anora would be a Queen-Consort herself (most Queens in European history were actually Queen-Consorts) but in Ferelden she takes power after King Cailan's death as opposed to looking for someone else of Cailan's bloodline.

I imagine that has something to do with having the army supporting her and all other claims being similarly through marriage (like Eamon's). There was nowhere better to look. Bastards are iffy.

If Anora died or the King-Consort lead a coup against her, his status could reasonably change.

[TheKomandorShepard]

To be honest there is no way to do that without creating entirely new character not the warden we played so "i want my warden back" won't happen because you will get new written npc like vivienne and in case only character you played will be destroyed in exchange for completely alien npc we don't know.

Such things have only point when protagonist have already personality and still sometimes even that is done poorly like alex mercer in prototype 2.

[AlexanderCousland]

Taleroth wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Yea. Technically correct. BUT My Warden is still a Teryn modern equivalent to Vice President or Attorney General, and Also a Hero to Fereldan people and recognized as a ruler of Fereldan by people in DA2 (Bohdan, & Lady you have to ask about Anders,) and a King by Leliana.  I dont think the technicalities of the Title really matter much to common folk. Elizabeth Woodville was a Consort, history still recognizes her as a Queen.

It's not a technicality in this context. Clockwork claims that the Consort leaving leaves the nation without a monarch. Elizabeth Woodville was never a monarch.

Never said she was, So we agree, but that doesnt change the fact that people still see her as a Queen (and a commoner) who acted with the authority of a Queen. But that's neither here nor there, I dont think wether or not your a consort is really a big deal.

[Sylvianus]

scyphozoa wrote...

Wow the possibility of Warden returning makes me want to import with a dead warden. 

Then, do it thanks to the dragon keep and be happy.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 03 octobre 2013 - 04:45 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

If they do it well and satisfy a customer like me who wants to see their former PC's, there will inevitably be people like you who didnt want to see it. So whatever they do they can't win, I personally think their appearances are going to be in some form of DLC.

Its not about not wanting to see it. Its about the impossible task of doing it well. Being disappointed about not seeing an old PC isn't nearly as bad as an appearance that completely ruins a person's fond memories.

Alistair couldn't even manage a one minute cameo in DA2 without embarassing himself. "Swooping is Bad."

Im glad he emarassed himself, He's a fool anyway.
But your argument proves my point, your never going to satisfy everyone.

[Cutlass Jack]

FreshIstay wrote...

Im glad he emarassed himself, He's a fool anyway.
But your argument proves my point, your never going to satisfy everyone.

Not being able to satisfy everyone is not the same as not being able to satisfy anyone. That is my point.

Its alot of effort to manage such an appearance in a way that lets the player control visuals for minimal possible payoff and alot of potential to go horribly horribly wrong. The best they can hope for is for people who weren't too attached to their Hawkes/wardens to be 'okay' with it. But those folks probably would be equally 'okay' without such a cameo. And would probably enjoy that amount of work being spent on something for the current hero instead.

[Reznore57]

Hawke/the Warden as NPC just makes me grumpy.
I'm ok with them dying , or being kidnapped and eaten by Flemeth.
They probably wouldn't have any choice about that , so that's not a problem.
But the whole Headcannon doesn't count , get over it , it's not your pc anymore is very meh .
I just really really don't like the sound of that .

[Sylvianus]

Meh. If there's anything I don't trust, it's bsn saying something like "  it's impossible to do something, it will never work or Bioware will never do this or that. "

Lately, our awesome bsn analysts so pessimistic discovered how they were so wrong with the race options back. " They won't ever come back, with EA blah blah. " 

Modifié par Sylvianus, 03 octobre 2013 - 05:22 .

[crimzontearz]

All due respect to Bioware....

But in T.T. RPGs usually when a character is released to the Narrator/DM/GM it is seen as bad form on the DM/GM/Narrator part to screw with it

Why not simply let them be?

[AlexanderCousland]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Im glad he emarassed himself, He's a fool anyway.
But your argument proves my point, your never going to satisfy everyone.

Not being able to satisfy everyone is not the same as not being able to satisfy anyone. That is my point.

Its alot of effort to manage such an appearance in a way that lets the player control visuals for minimal possible payoff and alot of potential to go horribly horribly wrong. The best they can hope for is for people who weren't too attached to their Hawkes/wardens to be 'okay' with it. But those folks probably would be equally 'okay' without such a cameo. And would probably enjoy that amount of work being spent on something for the current hero instead.

Some people will be happy, some will be content, some will be disappointed, and some will be angry. People will feel how they choose. I, however, will not shake my fists at the gods because they MIGHT do it wrong, because there is a possibility they can do it right. What if a majority of people are happy with what they do? What if they aren't? So watev.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think this is really interesting. I'm curious as to whether the import of data or the appearance of Hawke will undermine the benefits of DA2's unreliable narrator.

[Sylvianus]

Jaulen wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

Ferretinabun wrote...

People are making far too much of this 'Hawke and Warden in DA:I' thing.

I'm pretty sure Bioware have promised us no such thing. I doubt we'll get more than a few lines' mention of them, if that.

Don't get your hopes/back up.

^ This.

It secretly pleases me that this topic keeps coming up. The tears will be delicious when we find our Wardens and Hawkes dead in a ditch. Together. 

You are EVIL!


But with how many people that don't understand that yes, the Warden and Hawke were 'your' character while you were playing them (and only then), and anything that has been headcanoned about them either in-game or after-game that was never explicityly stated by the developers just.doesn't.exist in the in-game world and is fair game for Bioware to touch.

All I know about my Warden (for the ones that survived) is that after a short period of time they disappeared.....anything that I THINK that happened to them is all in my head and SPECULATION.....I don't actually KNOW what happened to the Warden until Bioware tells me what happened to them.

As for Hawke, they disappeared....and same thing with Hawke as with the Warden.....anything I think happened is just specualtion. I have no knowledge of what actually happened to them until Bioware tells me.

Exactly.

[RifuloftheWest]

There is significant potential for fallout should the Warden and Hawke show up in a cameo. Especially regarding the Warden. To have a cameo for the past two DA protagonists without alienating many players due to issues with what the Warden/Hawke says, does, looks like, or sounds like is a massive challenge. I think that the devs are seriously investigating how a satisfying cameo can be done if only to address the disappearance of said characters (and probably because they enjoy design challenges).

Personally, I think the risk is not worth the reward and that resources be allocated elsewhere in the game. I would prefer having the subject of the Warden and Hawke be addressed by another appropriate npc. This would not be especially ideal but would be far less risky. 

However, if the Warden and Hawke show up, I am confident that the devs will make every effort do it in a way that will be the least contradictory to as broad a spectrum of player agency as possible.

The following is a clip of David Gaider and Mike Laidlaw addressing a question regarding a potential appearance of the Warden in (what was then yet to be announced) DAI during a panel at PAX East 2012:

youtu.be/f0nDyB7Eva8

I thought it was very apparent from Mike's and David's comments that they are cognizant and understand that many would be apprehensive to the notion of the Warden and/or Hawke showing up because of the potential for disconnect is so great.

Modifié par RifuloftheWest, 03 octobre 2013 - 06:28 .

[Rikketik]

I'm not looking forward to seeing either the Warden or Hawke in Inquisition, but alas, there's nothing I can do about it. I'm sure my ignorance is more powerful that BioWare's writing, anyway. I've been able to ignore that horribly cliché "but now I must go" ending that both the Warden and Hawke fell victim to, and I'm sure I can ignore their role in Inquisition as well.

Unless, of course, both the Warden and Hawke turn out to be an AI developed by an ancient civilization to impose order on the chaos of... ah, sod it all.

[Chari]

Well, if both of them appear just as cameos, without enough screen time to establish personality/voice actor/etc, then I think fans will be more satisfied than angry
It's better than to think that both of them are dead or for some reason act like lazy sloths, ignoring the world falling apart around them (I know some of us play such Wardens, Hawkes but let's be honest. These characters are too unlucky to not get involved in a ****storm coming)

[Jaulen]

Reznore57 wrote...

Hawke/the Warden as NPC just makes me grumpy.
I'm ok with them dying , or being kidnapped and eaten by Flemeth.
They probably wouldn't have any choice about that , so that's not a problem.
But the whole Headcannon doesn't count , get over it , it's not your pc anymore is very meh .
I just really really don't like the sound of that .

Why not?

It's like writing a fanfic between Skywise and some femElf from Elfquest (or RPing some elf being involved with an Original wolfrider somehow)......and then the Wendy comes along with a new chapter and *poof* your fanfic/headcannon is a moot point.


I don't see much difference. You only know what happened to your Warden or Hawke as as far as the game let you know what happened to them...anything you make up that the game didn't mention is fiction in the game-verse.

[TheInquisitor]

David Gaider wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
How good is the face import system from dragon age to dragon age 2 than going into inquisition?

I doubt it's going to be a matter of "importing" any more than you import your world state. Rather, it would be "re-creating"... and even if there is an import of some kind, most likely you'd be free to further tweak (as I can't imagine a circumstance where we could guarantee 100% visual accurancy with an import, considering the new engine).

That's still being investigated, however, so there's nothing I can confirm regarding how either of those things would be done.

I think it wouldn't make sense for them not to appear, or at least have an impact on the story of Inquisition. With Thedas in chaos, I don't think they would just sit by. But that may not necessarily mean they come in contact with the Inquisitor.

That being said, I would love to tweak and re-create my Warden and Hawke and my inner Dragon Age nerd hopes to god I'll see them again. Especially Hawke, since I felt his story ended abruptly and had no closure whatsoever.

Modifié par TristanHawke, 03 octobre 2013 - 06:15 .

[Chaos Hammer]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

We are not, however. going to outline exactly how these characters will appear-- if they do-- or what they will or won't be doing. That's part of the plot. If someone is determined that they definitely don't want to see them at all, or simply doesn't trust us to not have things happen which are wildly contradictory to previously-established events, then now would definitely be the time to panic.

Considering you (not specifically you, but rather the series) have yet to do even a former companion cameo that successfully managed to thrill the very people who would be excited by such a cameo the most, I'd say its a good time for everyone to panic. Because it absolutely will go wrong shoehorning a former PC in. Heck it even went terrible putting in 'Varric Hawke' at the beginning of DA2 and the player hadn't even created the character yet.


Stick to tavern rumors, not appearances. You'll wish you listened.

As someone who has yet to play TEP DLC, Liliana being with Casandra at the End of DA ][ was a OMG! moment... and I was pumped when I found Oghren at Vigil's keep. To the Devs though, you might not wanna rule out a small battle as the Warden and or Hawke, like the Gates of Denerim after you go kill the Generals.... js It would provide an easy "Cameo" in which nostalgia is satisfied and the player can control the outcome... just an idea of course

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jaulen wrote...

Reznore57 wrote...

Hawke/the Warden as NPC just makes me grumpy.
I'm ok with them dying , or being kidnapped and eaten by Flemeth.
They probably wouldn't have any choice about that , so that's not a problem.
But the whole Headcannon doesn't count , get over it , it's not your pc anymore is very meh .
I just really really don't like the sound of that .

Why not?

It's like writing a fanfic between Skywise and some femElf from Elfquest (or RPing some elf being involved with an Original wolfrider somehow)......and then the Wendy comes along with a new chapter and *poof* your fanfic/headcannon is a moot point.


I don't see much difference. You only know what happened to your Warden or Hawke as as far as the game let you know what happened to them...anything you make up that the game didn't mention is fiction in the game-verse.

What our wardens did after dao depends on what we choose want to them to do and what we bulit them and their personality warden isn't morrigan who have one personality warden can have rly many personalities one my regard being warden as duty other can just don't want to be warden and tell them fu*** you in epilogue (at least until awakening where our choices were ignored and still i can there tell that it is only on time warden mission).

My character don't have any desire to be warden and said that every time that was allowed so i created my character personality and i don't want see now them jumping "i love wardens duty is most important thing evah end justifah means" warden isn't shepard and rly shouldn't be.





 

[Deverz]

My Hawke could be a real douche, so I'm not so concerned over what they do with him. Hawke would be much easier to deal with anyway. I'm more concerned about the Warden. As he was a silent protagonist we were allowed to project our thoughts more into him, and there is a special attachment that goes along with that.

Having said that though I have faith in Bioware that they will do a good job. For me, my adventure ended when my Warden went into the Eluvian with Morrigan. I never invented a headcanon after that because I know if they bring him back in DAI it will collide with my version and it might upset me. Even though I put a lot of time and effort into them, I am ready to accept that they're not my characters to control anymore.

If it turned out my Warden was a robot from the future, then maybe I'd get angry and start sending them angry letters to display my disapproval.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Fair enough. For me it is important to see that the DAI team thinks about these things and aims to respect our decisions in past games. However, the devil lies in the details in this. Decisions carry implications for the character who makes them, which differ greatly between players. For me, it is not just important that, say, Hawke's siding with the mages is recognized, it is as important that DAI does not contradict him being of one of various kinds of person who would make such a decision. As I mentioned in another thread, a Hawke who sided with the mages in DA2 is not necessarily generally pro-mage. If DAI limits itself to recognize the decision, fine, but if it starts drawing conclusions about Hawke beyond that things get more than a little tricky.

I actually have two Hawkes who sided with the mages.

One was pro-mage from the get-go and defended them every chance he had.
One was actually pro-templar and tended to side with them (the only Hawke I got full friendship with Fenris )  But in the end, sided with the mages to save Bethany.

How would their personalities be interpreted?

The desirable way to handle that would be to scrupulously avoid putting words into Hawke's mouth which hint at motivations for making a specific decision or explicitly mention such motivations. if Hawke is asked, maybe saying something like "Meredith was mad" would work since it's canonically true and can be delivered suggestively enough of deeper reasons which may remain unmentioned.

I have more Hawke's than not who ended up reluctantly siding with the templars or the mages despite their natural sympathies not necessarily being with that side. Maybe as you say it will be possible for them to walk the fine tightrope in avoiding drawing character conclusions from decisions. I'm far from convinced though

[jtav]

Yeah, I don't think I'll be preordering now. After the Shepard debacle, I'll be adopting a wait-and-see approach. What happens to Hawke isn't nearly as important to me as who Hawke is and keeping that consistent.