216 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

x-aizen-x wrote...


OOOOO I see what your saying now. Its sort of like a better safe than sorry type thing. However I would still like to know what happened to my warden after he went through the mirror with Morrigan.

[\\quote]

What if you learned your warden never went through the mirror with Morrigan at all, and instead had a gay fling with Zevran, killed him, then went on to spearhead a large movement of people who's goal it is to merge people with darkspawn? Would you still want to see him or would you want to leave well enough alone and leave him as he was in the games he was in?

People did so many things, made so many choices, crafted so many personalities that it is impossible to make a warden that is convincing without making them dead from the taint, give them only short, infrequent dialogue (such as answering yes or no questions or generic answers that have nothing to do with personality/personal story such as "the troops are camped on the other side of the valley") DA:O is my favorite game, I don't want to have it ruined or become unplayable the same way ME3 ruined Mass Effect for me. So yes I would much rather be safe than sorry.

[Sylvianus]

Nefla wrote...

What if you learned your warden never went through the mirror with Morrigan at all, and instead had a gay fling with Zevran, killed him, then went on to spearhead a large movement of people who's goal it is to merge people with darkspawn? Would you still want to see him or would you want to leave well enough alone and leave him as he was in the games he was in?

People did so many things, made so many choices, crafted so many personalities that it is impossible to make a warden that is convincing without making them dead from the taint, give them only short, infrequent dialogue (such as answering yes or no questions or generic answers that have nothing to do with personality/personal story such as "the troops are camped on the other side of the valley") DA:O is my favorite game, I don't want to have it ruined or become unplayable the same way ME3 ruined Mass Effect for me. So yes I would much rather be safe than sorry.

Don't worry, Gaider just said in this thread they would respect the choices made in game.  You can't be gay and with Zevran, if you chose Morrigan. And if the warden kills Zevran in DA:I, that's simply part of the plot in DAI. This isn't anymore DAO's story which is over, and you 'd have to see in the next game, where it is relevant, why the relationship has changed so much. Even in DAO, you couldn't always decide whatever the hell you wanted, you had sometimes to follow one path.

And if you meant killed Zevran just after DAO, the same, that's not possible either.

Also, as someone who went through the Mirror with Morrigan, who hates pretty much when we need to headcanon to do Bioware's job, there's nothing safe for me, just a mess. I'd rather be sorry than just dealing with a mess unfinished. The difference ? Well with the former, I have hope I can be satisfied at least. And if I'm not, I'll simply think too bad Bioware but at least you tried. I'm in peace. I don't require their appearance ( Hawk and the Warden ), but I'd welcome it if they have some ideas. The most important is closure and some answers.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 octobre 2013 - 04:03 .

[Spectre slayer]

OOOOO I see what your saying now. Its sort of like a better safe than sorry type thing. However I would still like to know what happened to my warden after he went through the mirror with Morrigan.

What if you learned your warden never went through the mirror with Morrigan at all, and instead had a gay fling with Zevran, killed him, then went on to spearhead a large movement of people who's goal it is to merge people with darkspawn? Would you still want to see him or would you want to leave well enough alone and leave him as he was in the games he was in?

People did so many things, made so many choices, crafted so many personalities that it is impossible to make a warden that is convincing without making them dead from the taint, give them only short, infrequent dialogue (such as answering yes or no questions or generic answers that have nothing to do with personality/personal story such as "the troops are camped on the other side of the valley") DA:O is my favorite game, I don't want to have it ruined or become unplayable the same way ME3 ruined Mass Effect for me. So yes I would much rather be safe than sorry.

The part about romance is not something you should be concerned about since they've already stated that the relationships that were established in the previous games will still be established, you can't cheat on your LI because we won't be playing as them and we can not romance the LI from the other games.

As for the warden and hawke actually appearing in the game their is next to nothing we can do about since again they've stated numerous times they are no longer ours nor do we have any control over them other then their appearance, if you don't want that or think they shouldn't show up because you said so then get over it.

I just want them to clear up the mess they made somehow and don't care if they appear physicallyor not, i'm just tired of hearing about them and knew at some point this could be a possibility, people should prepare themselves or withhold judgement until the games actually out and at this point all you can do is not import a world state with a live warden if you don't want them to possible appear physically since that's the only way sure that you won't  see them.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 30 novembre 2013 - 05:33 .

[frankf43]

David Gaider wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
How good is the face import system from dragon age to dragon age 2 than going into inquisition?

I doubt it's going to be a matter of "importing" any more than you import your world state. Rather, it would be "re-creating"... and even if there is an import of some kind, most likely you'd be free to further tweak (as I can't imagine a circumstance where we could guarantee 100% visual accurancy with an import, considering the new engine).

That's still being investigated, however, so there's nothing I can confirm regarding how either of those things would be done.

Something like a character creator in the Keep would be cool.  Then we could tweak their appearance until we were happy.  It would also give us something to do between the release date of the Keep and the release of the actual game.

[Taleroth]

Sylvianus wrote...
Don't worry, Gaider just said in this thread they would respect the choices made in game. 

Don't they always say that, though?

But then they treat some choices as trivial so ignore it, they forget another choice, a bug causes this yet other choice to be skipped over, and another choice you made is rendered irrelevant by happening anyway when you're not looking. And at the end they say "the choice you made didn't do what you thought."

There's a list of choices they have failed to respect for one reason or another. Why would our PC be an exception?

Modifié par Taleroth, 04 octobre 2013 - 04:19 .

[frankf43]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A King-Consort is not a King, thus not a monarch. The modern equivalent is the US's "First Lady." Significant in some respects, sometimes ceremonially and even with possible political involvement. But not in line for the office.

I have seen this come up in the past. It's important to note that Ferelden doesn't work like say, Europe's feudal system. Anora would be a Queen-Consort herself (most Queens in European history were actually Queen-Consorts) but in Ferelden she takes power after King Cailan's death as opposed to looking for someone else of Cailan's bloodline.

(At least this is the way I saw it.  If people have lore corrections for me that show that marrying a ruler results in different succession depending on role feel free to fire it at me here)

I think that the Lands Meet had some say in appointing the successor. It could have been Anora or Alistair and they had to vote on it.

[Swoopdogg]

Honestly I don't care what they do with my warden. I love him as a character, yes, but in the end it doesn't matter to me. His story is basically over.

[David Gaider]

Taleroth wrote...
Don't they always say that, though?

But then they treat some choices as trivial so ignore it, they forget another choice, a bug causes this yet other choice to be skipped over, and another choice you made is rendered irrelevant by happening anyway when you're not looking. And at the end they say "the choice you made didn't do what you thought."

There's a list of choices they have failed to respect for one reason or another. Why would our PC be an exception?

It won't be. The DA Keep should ensure that import bugs are a thing of the past, but there are always going to be items that people will believe we didn't respect enough-- by rendering irrelevant or what have you. Ideally that's not the same as actively contradicting a choice, but there will probably be no shortage of people who will read into the tone of a line to extract meaning not said (like those who held up the tone Leliana spoke some of her lines in DA2 as proof she now hated mages) or who will claim "my character wouldn't do/say that" even if motivation never comes up at all.

We'll do our best, but considering some like yourself say they just don't trust us that's hardly going to assuage your fears-- some people are going to spend their time imagining the absolute worst way we could do this, assume that's what we're going to do, and then demand we disprove their fears immediately lest the lack of disproving be taken as confirmation... which we will not do. So you'll just have to wait and see how it turns out, or panic in the meantime, whichever is your preference.

Not to sound insensitive, but that is simply how it is-- "preorder canceled!" declarations notwithstanding.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm one of the biggest headcanon folks around, and I'm not particularly worried about possible appearances of the Warden or Hawke in DAI.

First, because my headcanon often involves things that have nothing to do with the game's core narrative (for example, my Warden admires Avernus and his research, and intended to continue it once the Archdemon was defeated), and it seems unlikely they'd happen to contradict it.

Second, because there always exists a fallback position of not presuming that these games all take place in the same universe. If it turns out that DAI is incompatible with my understanding of DAO or DA2, then I simply won't assume that the the stories I've seen in those games have anything to do with the story in this game.

[jtav]

But, well, why should we trust BW at this point? After TOR and ME3? Heck, NWN if you want to go back that far. Returning PCs or significant mentions thereof do not turn out that well in BW games They end up miserable, evil, nigh-on unrecognizable unless you played the approved path, or some combination of the above.. So skepticism is warranted here. Not "preorder cancelled" but "not going to purchase until a trusted source verifies that I won't be furious."

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

But, well, why should we trust BW at this point? After TOR and ME3? Heck, NWN if you want to go back that far. Returning PCs or significant mentions thereof do not turn out that well in BW games They end up miserable, evil, nigh-on unrecognizable unless you played the approved path, or some combination of the above.. So skepticism is warranted here. Not "preorder cancelled" but "not going to purchase until a trusted source verifies that I won't be furious."

Don't take TOR as being representative of Bioware as a whole. The team there is very... different, culturally, and compared to other teams, very new at their job. I doubt its patterns would seep into Edmonton.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I still don't see why the Warden or Hawke need to return

well da 2 proves that bio likes game full of pointless cameos and brining back old character unnecessarily so why just don't destroy 2 pc from previous games.

[frankf43]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I still don't see why the Warden or Hawke need to return

They are heroes of Thedas who are currently alive during probably the biggest event that has taken place in the Dragon Age. I don't know about your Warden but mine would want to be there to help save the world from the disaster that has befallen it.

[jtav]

Xilizhra wrote...

jtav wrote...

But, well, why should we trust BW at this point? After TOR and ME3? Heck, NWN if you want to go back that far. Returning PCs or significant mentions thereof do not turn out that well in BW games They end up miserable, evil, nigh-on unrecognizable unless you played the approved path, or some combination of the above.. So skepticism is warranted here. Not "preorder cancelled" but "not going to purchase until a trusted source verifies that I won't be furious."

Don't take TOR as being representative of Bioware as a whole. The team there is very... different, culturally, and compared to other teams, very new at their job. I doubt its patterns would seep into Edmonton.

I'd also refer you to ME. It was perfectly possible tp, say, play a PC who habitually backtaled to superiors and was very jaded with the Alliance. Come ME3, it's all salutes and "Yes, sir!" And that was a character I actually had control over. Unless the substance of our former PCs roles is that they're imprisioned somewhere, I remain very skeptical.

[wright1978]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I'm one of the biggest headcanon folks around, and I'm not particularly worried about possible appearances of the Warden or Hawke in DAI.

First, because my headcanon often involves things that have nothing to do with the game's core narrative (for example, my Warden admires Avernus and his research, and intended to continue it once the Archdemon was defeated), and it seems unlikely they'd happen to contradict it.

Second, because there always exists a fallback position of not presuming that these games all take place in the same universe. If it turns out that DAI is incompatible with my understanding of DAO or DA2, then I simply won't assume that the the stories I've seen in those games have anything to do with the story in this game.

Well i have to say i'm rather more worried. There's a wary watchfulness for the below the belt punch that i didn't have before  experience with ME3. Still if the handling of it damaging but the game itself is good then as you say there is a defensible fallback position to retreat to.

[TheKomandorShepard]

frankf43 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I still don't see why the Warden or Hawke need to return

They are heroes of Thedas who are currently alive during probably the biggest event that has taken place in the Dragon Age. I don't know about your Warden but mine would want to be there to help save the world from the disaster that has befallen it.

yes warden could be one of 6 sorry 7 peoples well killing archdemon is impressive but i could show you plety characters what could do that. And no one stops him if he wants save world he don't have to do that in orlais or even when we looking and hell even if it is stupid i prefer i he go and vanished like revan but this time without screwing and showing fate like they did with revan and exile.

And to be honest when hawke is good warrior he didn't do **** in da 2 and his role was as pawn nothing more and have only failures on his head.

[frankf43]

Morocco Mole wrote...

They are heroes of Thedas who are currently alive during probably the biggest event that has taken place in the Dragon Age. I don't know about your Warden but mine would want to be there to help save the world from the disaster that has befallen it.

Its not their story however. And, even ignoring how much of a hassle it would be to implment "everyone's" Warden and Hawke, their entire presence would be distracting and take away the focus from the Inquisitor's story.

It depends on whether Bioware sees the games as individual isolated stories or as part of a bigger broader story that will come together over the course of the whole series. 

If they are isolated stories then yes there would be no need for either of them to appear. If on the other had the games are interlinked then his story isn't over until either we find out  he is dead or the series finally finishes.  He is still the Hero of Ferelden an area we know we will be working in.

[Andrex4ever]

I really want to see my warden and my hawke in the game,one put his duty in the first place while Garrett is a jester who likes to joke even about his condition as an apostate. i really like both of them

[RifuloftheWest]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I'm one of the biggest headcanon folks around, and I'm not particularly worried about possible appearances of the Warden or Hawke in DAI.

First, because my headcanon often involves things that have nothing to do with the game's core narrative (for example, my Warden admires Avernus and his research, and intended to continue it once the Archdemon was defeated), and it seems unlikely they'd happen to contradict it.

Second, because there always exists a fallback position of not presuming that these games all take place in the same universe. If it turns out that DAI is incompatible with my understanding of DAO or DA2, then I simply won't assume that the the stories I've seen in those games have anything to do with the story in this game.

I share these sentiments. Especially the second part since that was what first came to my mind when the possibility of the Warden or Hawke appearing came up.

This also goes further for me with the fact that I have many Wardens and Hawkes (more so the Warden ) with a variety of motivations and character traits. Should some form of  contradiction come up (depending of course on what was contradicted and how) given the amount of time lapsed in universe, there will be some of my previous PCs that I would be able to resolve based on some type of character growth or change potential my characters possessed.

Regardless, I'm of the belief that the devs will do their utmost to avoid stepping on the toes of player agency as much as they are able. Post game headcanon events aside, I suspect the Warden's and/or Hawke's actions outside of DAO and DA2 will be based on the decisions made in the previous games but will have their reasons for those actions relatively vague to account for a variety of motivational factors.

Modifié par RifuloftheWest, 04 octobre 2013 - 09:07 .

[Taleroth]

David Gaider wrote...

Not to sound insensitive, but that is simply how it is-- 

Not at all. I appreciate the candor. Thanks.

My trepidation more founded in speculation than experience, to be honest. I didn't kill Leliana, I did let Anders be a Grey Warden, and while I convinced leliana to give up being a Bard, I'm not really married to the outcome. I'd still say the choices were contradicted for some people. Or perhaps that the agency of those choices was.

I have no idea you will do the worst imagineable. I do rather doubt it. But I do think it will deviate. Will they be important deviations that cause me to become disinterested in a former PC? I don't know. I don't even know what an important deviation would be. If I don't know, I sure as heck can't expect you guys to know. It's flipping a coin... into a minefield.

And all I can do is wonder why we're playing in a minefield to begin with.

Modifié par Taleroth, 04 octobre 2013 - 08:26 .

[Fredward]

Wulfram wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

I actually have trouble understanding the "NO! My Hawke/Warden would NEVER be in that situation!" stance. You're playing in someone else's sandbox. Your actions and decisions are limited by definition. If BW was actually discarding choices and stuff that the player actually DID make, then I'd understand. They are not responsible for the sanctity of your headcanon though and they shouldn't be either.

If you're playing a game where the story is of any kind of relevance you're going to have to let go of some of your headcanon. Or mould it around the canon, which is actually easier than some people make it sound.

The characterisation of my character, as established in the game, is not "head canon".

No it's not and I don't think I said that. Personality is very nebulous though. A lot of stuff could have happened AFTER the game that could have radically changed your "your" character's personality. Bioware is unlikely to turn the character into something completely and utterly alien, they know the choices they put in the game, they know how people are going to react to that, game telemetry would help with that if nothing else. Mind you I don't think they'll actually do anything too radical, otherwise people would just get pissed, they'll probably do something relatively mellow and maybe throw in some personality with Hawke especially, thanks to the tones. Where was I?

With games like Bioware's you're not really playing YOUR character, you're borrowing THEIRS. Borrowing. The character existed before you came along and s/he will continue to exist after you lose control of them. Bioware could choose to create a completely blank slate (ala Skyrim) and allow you to go crazy on backstories and personality and patterns of response and frames of reference and coping patters and whateverthe**** but they don't. And that's their perogative.

Is asking Bioware to respect choices made while you were in control of their character too much to ask? No, I don't think so. Is asking Bioware to shelf the character and let them gather dust in a static state in order to preserve some fans' mental image of who and what they are AFTER the player has lost control of their story too much to ask? Yeah, I think so.

[Wulfram]

Well, Bioware can't decide how my character may or may not have changed over the years, because they've got no idea who my character is.

And it is my character. Bioware created the plot, but personality and motivations are mine.

Leaving the character "on the shelf" might be too much to ask if they could do something worthwhile with the character, but they can't. Any appearance is necessarily stripped of personality, fulfilling a role that any Warden/Hawke could - and in the Warden's case a role that must be replaceable. So there's no good reason that it should have to be one of the two characters that is mine, not Bioware's.