216 réponses à ce sujet

[Rikketik]

frankf43 wrote...
[...]

It depends on whether Bioware sees the games as individual isolated stories or as part of a bigger broader story that will come together over the course of the whole series. 

I don't think BioWare is very subtle about their intentions to possibly have the Warden and Hawke appear in future games, given the fact that both the Warden and Hawke "suddenly" disappear around the same time, if I'm not mistaken. Much like they did with Revan leaving for Unknown Space (or whatever it was called--I remember there being an official term for it) at the end of Knights of the Old Republic and the Exile (surprise, surprise!) following him in KotOR2. And we all know how that worked out.

At least the Keep is there to make it possible to "alter history", so to speak, and have the Warden make the ultimate sacrifice if their role in Inquisition doesn't prove satisfactory. Hawke will be more difficult to avoid, but oh well, you can't win them all.

In my opinion, the best solution would be to completely ignore the Warden and Hawke, saving both the fans and the writers a lot of headache, and instead write new characters for those roles, characters the whole fanbase can appreciate.

[ScarMK]

frankf43 wrote...

It depends on whether Bioware sees the games as individual isolated stories or as part of a bigger broader story that will come together over the course of the whole series. 

If they are isolated stories then yes there would be no need for either of them to appear. If on the other had the games are interlinked then his story isn't over until either we find out  he is dead or the series finally finishes.  He is still the Hero of Ferelden an area we know we will be working in.

Bioware has already said that Dragon Age is the story about the land of Thedas.  The Warden (and maybe Hawkes,  I can't remember if they said his was or not) are done.

[Taleroth]

Rikketik wrote...

Much like they did with Revan leaving for Unknown Space (or whatever it was called--I remember there being an official term for it) at the end of Knights of the Old Republic and the Exile (surprise, surprise!) following him in KotOR2. And we all know how that worked out.

Revan leaving for unknown space was something from KOTOR 2, so I'm not sure how involved Bioware was in that decision.

Most of the problems of TOR's presentation of Revan is from it not living up to what KOTOR 2 showed, if not outright contradicting it. Though I can't be certain of contradiction, I couldn't get through enough TOR to actually get to the point and haven't read the book.

Modifié par Taleroth, 04 octobre 2013 - 08:44 .

[Rikketik]

Taleroth wrote...
[...]

Revan leaving for unknown space was something from KOTOR 2, so I'm not sure how involved Bioware was in that decision.

I thought it was also mentioned in the epilogue of KotOR, but admittedly my memory is a bit hazy when it comes to KotOR--it has been a while since I've played it. I've found no evidence for it on Wookiepedia, so if this was established only in KotOR2 and with no involvement from BioWare, then I can't blame BioWare for setting the whole thing up. In that case, I stand corrected.

[Fredward]

Wulfram wrote...
Well, Bioware can't decide how my character may or may not have changed over the years, because they've got no idea who my character is.

And it is my character. Bioware created the plot, but personality and motivations are mine.

Leaving the character "on the shelf" might be too much to ask if they could do something worthwhile with the character, but they can't. Any appearance is necessarily stripped of personality, fulfilling a role that any Warden/Hawke could - and in the Warden's case a role that must be replaceable. So there's no good reason that it should have to be one of the two characters that is mine, not Bioware's.

Man, this broke down to opinion even faster than I thought it would.

Anyway I'm not sure how you can so easily cleave story and character. It is your character yet the backstory is more or less set in stone and any decision you make is EXTREMELY circumscribed. If it was your character there should have been an option to say "**** all ya'll I'm going to become a prostitute at the Pearl, in the SANE part of Thedas" but no, there was never an option for that. There isn't really any choice, just the illusion of choice. But okay so you say motivation and personality are yours, which I agree with, but I don't see why you can't build those around whatever Bioware decides to do with their character especially since YOU HAVE TO DO THIS ANYWAY. This isn't even someone else's sandbox this is someone else's maze, with more than one route to get to the cheese. You're free to choose whichever predesigned path you want but you can't just choose to inform the designer that you actually really don't like cheese all that much and could he please replace it with some duck a l'orange. It is simply not the done thing. Or Skyrim where you can learn you're the Dragonborn, sole savior of the world, slayer of dragons, absorber of souls, succesor of the god-king, rightful ruler of all of Tamriel and then spend the next seven months desperately scouring the land for cabbages to sell to that one guy BECAUSE FARMING IS A VALID WAY OF LIFE DAMMIT.

It is your character, as far as motivation and personality go, as long as BW does not explicitly state these things you are entitled to whatever elaborate rationalizations and justifications you can dream up, god knows I do it often enough. Decisions and actions though? Nooooot so much.

But that's just like, my opinion man.

[dsl08002]

I cant imagine that it will be difficult, because the only difference is how people respond to you if you are warden or hawke.

BUt what i can Think of is this for instance if you are warden:

Same quests
People respond to you as warden, and as hero of ferelden, what kind of impact that brings.
Special mission that only you warden can have.
Party members from previous game such as DAO will appear more

and so on.

[x-aizen-x]

I don't understand this logic. Why would the warden or hawke be player controlled in DAI they are not the main character anymore. Jesus Christ when I made this thread I naturally assumed people had since enough to realize this very simply fact.

I had no clue that people would actually demand bioware follow their headcannon and pout because they are not able to do that. But the thing is, that's not what their suppose to do(in my opinion). Unless they had the power to read minds.

What I thought I made very clear in the thread was that Dragon age origins was about the origins of the Warden.. THE WAAARRRDDDEEENNN!!!! Not his entire life story. (except if he dies)
Which means that once we were done with DAO that was the end of the wardens Backstory not his entire life story.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION
What I think Biowares challenge is now, is making sure the warden's personality and behavior stays the same if he appears in DAI. With that being said if bioware is able to do that then it is ridicules to still demand player control over the warden. That is why I named the thread "Give bioware a chance". But to see people's comments about how Bioware can possibly get it right because my headcannon is this and that is absurd.

We shaped who the warden is and what he did in DAO. Like if we were ask sten about how he became who he is today he would tell us his origins.

And last here is a good example

If George Washington's life was a video game like DAO then who ever was playing that game made him a war hero and the first president of the U.S. Now lets say I was the maker of that game. After that player was finished with the game I would say to myself now that the player has finished shaping the origins of this person (George) I will now make another game and put this character in that game, not under the players control, but the character will have the same personality or will have kept to the decisions the player made with him during the first games.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

David Gaider wrote...

Yes, those who are concerned will need to come to terms with the idea that Hawke and/or the Warden may appear in DAI. If so, they will not be under your control.

(*snip*)

We are not, however. going to outline exactly how these characters will appear-- if they do-- or what they will or won't be doing. That's part of the plot. If someone is determined that they definitely don't want to see them at all, or simply doesn't trust us to not have things happen which are wildly contradictory to previously-established events, then now would definitely be the time to panic.

I think Hawke and the Warden returning for DA:I is a great idea, for a host of reasons (not the least of which is their sheer importance within the DA-world). That said, this thing really needs to be approached in a very diplomatic way. Taking control of their characters outright is setting down a dangerous path -- one with little to gain, and much to lose.

The way I see it, the players and writers already have a compromise in place over the main character: there are some plot demands that create pre-determined paths that we must follow... however, the player gets to define the character through dialogue and decision-making (neither of which substantially alter the plot) along the way...


... I don't see why it should be any different in the event that Hawke/the Warden make a return in DA:I. I mean, if you're bringing back the character, you miiight as wellll let us role-play with them again as we did before. If the plot demands that Hawke/Warden has to do or has done certain things, then so be it, and it also makes sense to have some auto-dialogue in place where Hawke/Warden establish that stuff clearly. Beyond that, however, where character-defining elements are concerned ("I'm doing this, because ___;" -or- "I support ___;"), I'd sooner give control back to the player.


In the end, I just fear that -- if you assume control over the players' former characters -- you are only going to mess with players' existing satisfaction with their stories. Those who are happy now will not become (significantly) more happy.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 05 octobre 2013 - 01:02 .

[Zu Long]

Taleroth wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Not to sound insensitive, but that is simply how it is-- 

Not at all. I appreciate the candor. Thanks.

My trepidation more founded in speculation than experience, to be honest. I didn't kill Leliana, I did let Anders be a Grey Warden, and while I convinced leliana to give up being a Bard, I'm not really married to the outcome. I'd still say the choices were contradicted for some people. Or perhaps that the agency of those choices was.

I have no idea you will do the worst imagineable. I do rather doubt it. But I do think it will deviate. Will they be important deviations that cause me to become disinterested in a former PC? I don't know. I don't even know what an important deviation would be. If I don't know, I sure as heck can't expect you guys to know. It's flipping a coin... into a minefield.

And all I can do is wonder why we're playing in a minefield to begin with.

Perhaps because for many of us, it's not a minefield. For those people, it's a chance to see an old friend again, even if that friend has changed somewhat since we last saw them. Despite the nay-saying of some people on these boards circling protectively around their created characters, something Bioware hears a lot at cons and in fan emails is "I'd love to see the Warden/Hawke again!" Those sentiments deserve consideration too.

The fanbase is not composed of a monolithic block of fans that agree with you. You might consider that your trepidation could actually be in the minority when compared against the total feedback Bioware receives.

[Dominus]

I suppose my reluctance stems from more of how they would tackle the idea. On one hand, it's not too common in a video game to meet previous protagonists from earlier installments(Perhaps Castlevania: SotN or LoZ Twilight Princess?).

Under what circumstances would it be ideal for meeting Warden and/or Hawke, without making it seem jarring, off-putting, or otherwise contrived?

Modifié par DominusVita, 05 octobre 2013 - 04:01 .

[UC SIM]

I personally am not opposed to Warden/Hawke porting into DA:I. Though I wouldn't mind if they didn't either.

That being said, I could see a situation were you arrive at a pivotal moment; along the way you see signs of combat here and there. Someone or something has come through here like a whirlwind, death incarnate. Rounding the corner you come across a figure barely breathing he/she coughs hard as you walk closer. Their caked in blood and mud, you notice that a hellish blade seems to have pierced their armour and into a lung. Suddenly the character grasps forward but you feel strangely safe. They then gesture for you to open your hand and in a labouring effort take an amulet from around their neck depositing it within your palm. You move closer in an attempt to hear what the have to say. "Th...this will keep you s-s-safe. Flem...Flemeth imbued it with the power to deflect the worst these demons have to through at us". At this point your curiosity spills over "who are you? - I've been known by many names... the most common of which, the hero of Ferelden".

The figure finally resigns and with that you move on quickly slinging your knew trinket over your neck, knowing that whatever you face next was powerful enough to defeat the Warden - the Hero of Ferelden.

[Ryzaki]

jtav wrote...

But, well, why should we trust BW at this point? After TOR and ME3? Heck, NWN if you want to go back that far. Returning PCs or significant mentions thereof do not turn out that well in BW games They end up miserable, evil, nigh-on unrecognizable unless you played the approved path, or some combination of the above.. So skepticism is warranted here. Not "preorder cancelled" but "not going to purchase until a trusted source verifies that I won't be furious."

Wasn't that Bethesda (or Obsidan? One of those two)? You can't blame BW for that anymore than KOTOR 2.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 octobre 2013 - 06:36 .

[movieguyabw]

It probably wouldn't be a good idea to include them, simply because it's a touchy subject with many players. I know I have my own personal ideas of my Warden that were never substantiated by any choices I was allowed to make. First and foremost - I RP'd him as not believing in the Maker, despite lore stating that (if not all) the majority of humans in Thedas did; and further than that, since he was raised in the Circle of Magi, he always had a hatred of the Chantry, as it was their stories which painted mages as monsters, and it was their Templars who enforced the idea by keeping them locked away from the world.

At no point in Origins (other than possibly the Sacred Ashes quest) are we given a dialogue option that says we hate the Chantry, or that we think the Maker is just a myth. Such ideas are left for the player to decide on their own.

So, in my case, if the Warden were to show up and be working with the Chantry - or if they gave the Warden actual voiced lines, and he said something along the lines of "Maker protect us", I'd personally feel a little disheartened. But these ideas were my own - they weren't a decision my character made in the game at any point. They are just my personal preference, so in reality, if Bioware did bring the Warden in, they very well could do that.

Personally, I'd much rather see resources be put into creating a working modding tool for the community, than trying to figure out how to add either Hawke or the Warden in game. The reason for this, is that then the community could get together and find a way for players to add their own Hawke and Warden into the game, however they want.

Of course, us console users would be SOL, unless they worked something out with users, that if they were to release content using the mod kit, that Bioware could study their mods and implement them into DLC later on; and maybe offer a free download for anyone whose mod info was used. I don't know, just spit-balling ideas on here right before I sleep. Point is, well equipped modders would be better suited to bringing the Warden and Hawke into DAI, simply because we all have our ideas of where our protagonists ended up after their respective games - and Bioware would not be able to foresee every possibility.

[jtav]

[quote]Ryzaki wrote...

[quote]jtav wrote...

But, well, why should we trust BW at this point? After TOR and ME3? Heck, NWN if you want to go back that far. Returning PCs or significant mentions thereof do not turn out that well in BW games They end up miserable, evil, nigh-on unrecognizable unless you played the approved path, or some combination of the above.. So skepticism is warranted here. Not "preorder cancelled" but "not going to purchase until a trusted source verifies that I won't be furious."[/quote]

Wasn't that Bethesda (or Obsidan? One of those two)? You can't blame BW for that anymore than KOTOR 2.

[/quote

I was referring to Hordes of the Underdark. Hero of Neverwinter ups and vanishes after a fight with Nasher, LI is executed, and said LI gets completely different motive and backstory. I thought Obsidian was actually better. 

[Get Magna Carter]

David Gaider wrote...

Yes, those who are concerned will need to come to terms with the idea that Hawke and/or the Warden may appear in DAI. If so, they will not be under your control.

As I have said previously, we'll respect the decisions that were made-- but those are actual decisions that were in the game, not things one imagines them doing after the game was over. As with other choices, those decisions may not have results that you imagined-- but neither are we going to contradict them. Meaning that, if your former PC was in a romance, we are not suddenly going to give them a new romance or say that romance never existed.

We are not, however. going to outline exactly how these characters will appear-- if they do-- or what they will or won't be doing. That's part of the plot. If someone is determined that they definitely don't want to see them at all, or simply doesn't trust us to not have things happen which are wildly contradictory to previously-established events, then now would definitely be the time to panic.

I'm a console gamer without a home-internet connection.
It is my understanding that the only way fro the player to set their decisions will be by connecting the console (or pc) used to play inquisition to the internet when starting play.
So I expect the game will totally ignore all the decisions I made in the previous games and instead follow the default (which is primarily intended for people who hadn't played the previous games) contradicting some of my decisions.

[Zu Long]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

I'm a console gamer without a home-internet connection.
It is my understanding that the only way fro the player to set their decisions will be by connecting the console (or pc) used to play inquisition to the internet when starting play.
So I expect the game will totally ignore all the decisions I made in the previous games and instead follow the default (which is primarily intended for people who hadn't played the previous games) contradicting some of my decisions.

Well, for one, we still don't know for certain how that's going to work.

Two, even if that is the case, while I can appreciate that it will certainly be harder for you to get connected for the one time it take to load up the game and download your keep profile, it's hardly impossible. You can go to a friends house or make use of any of the zillion places that provide free internet. You clearly have access to some kind of internet connection or you wouldn't be posting here.

[Get Magna Carter]

Zu Long wrote...

Get Magna Carter wrote...

I'm a console gamer without a home-internet connection.
It is my understanding that the only way fro the player to set their decisions will be by connecting the console (or pc) used to play inquisition to the internet when starting play.
So I expect the game will totally ignore all the decisions I made in the previous games and instead follow the default (which is primarily intended for people who hadn't played the previous games) contradicting some of my decisions.

Well, for one, we still don't know for certain how that's going to work.

Two, even if that is the case, while I can appreciate that it will certainly be harder for you to get connected for the one time it take to load up the game and download your keep profile, it's hardly impossible. You can go to a friends house or make use of any of the zillion places that provide free internet. You clearly have access to some kind of internet connection or you wouldn't be posting here.

My statement was based on the last I read from Bioware, the earlier and more often I comment on it negatively, the more likely they will include another option,
They are saying that the console would need to be connected which is much more restrictive than if they had other options (if I could download a file to a memory device compatable to the console and use that in the start I may be able to do that but Bioware have not suggested such an approach can be programmed for).

As far as I know, places that provide free internet do so for laptops and portable devices not for consoles (which also need a TV screen).
I'm currently at my parent's home -and constantly having to reconnect due to the dodgy connection -they live over an hour's bus ride from me and it would be awkward to transport my console to the bus station for the journey there (and then there is the matter of the journey home.

[Ryzaki]

jtav wrote...
I was referring to Hordes of the Underdark. Hero of Neverwinter ups and vanishes after a fight with Nasher, LI is executed, and said LI gets completely different motive and backstory. I thought Obsidian was actually better. 

AH.

My bad

But honestly I don't trust anyone BW included to have a protagonist come back and it be good.

[Zu Long]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

My statement was based on the last I read from Bioware, the earlier and more often I comment on it negatively, the more likely they will include another option,
They are saying that the console would need to be connected which is much more restrictive than if they had other options (if I could download a file to a memory device compatable to the console and use that in the start I may be able to do that but Bioware have not suggested such an approach can be programmed for).

As far as I know, places that provide free internet do so for laptops and portable devices not for consoles (which also need a TV screen).
I'm currently at my parent's home -and constantly having to reconnect due to the dodgy connection -they live over an hour's bus ride from me and it would be awkward to transport my console to the bus station for the journey there (and then there is the matter of the journey home.

They've also said they're still hashing out how it's actually going to work. I can understand wanting to push them in a certain direction, but saying that going with a one time internet connection will completely lock you out seems over the top.

Free internet is free internet. Back me up here Kotaku.
http://kotaku.com/58...60-at-starbucks

I used to ride an hour to my friends house to play Diablo II back in the day since he had a cable internet connection and my house had dial-up. I spent a year riding the bus 45 minutes both ways to hook up with a D&D group. I set up a memory card with a buddies DA:O save and mailed it to him so that he could play DAII while he was serving overseas.

My point here is that a one time internet connection is not that big an obstacle. If it's important to you, you can find a way. You'll have literally months to prepare. I'm not saying it's ideal or that it's not onerous, but at the same time, Bioware has set up some pretty solid reasons why just loading from a previous save game doesn't work, and they want to go to something else. They are no doubt looking into whether having your keep state in a seperate file that you can put onto a flashdrive is workable or not. If for whatever reason they can't, by all means be disappointed, but don't act like creating a contingency plan is impossible.

[Potato Cat]

Just going to say, I think having the Warden and Hawke reappear as NPCs (and as themselves, not possessed or dead or anything like that), is potentially very silly indeed.

If they do need to come back, why not make it as part of DLC or an expansion where we actually play as them, choose what they say, and what they look like in the new engine? That seems safer, considering the BSN... I mean, even Hawke with the dominant tone, if that's an option in the Keep or something, surely that's going to be thrown back in the devs faces.

[Get Magna Carter]

Zu Long wrote...

Get Magna Carter wrote...

My statement was based on the last I read from Bioware, the earlier and more often I comment on it negatively, the more likely they will include another option,
They are saying that the console would need to be connected which is much more restrictive than if they had other options (if I could download a file to a memory device compatable to the console and use that in the start I may be able to do that but Bioware have not suggested such an approach can be programmed for).

As far as I know, places that provide free internet do so for laptops and portable devices not for consoles (which also need a TV screen).
I'm currently at my parent's home -and constantly having to reconnect due to the dodgy connection -they live over an hour's bus ride from me and it would be awkward to transport my console to the bus station for the journey there (and then there is the matter of the journey home.

They've also said they're still hashing out how it's actually going to work. I can understand wanting to push them in a certain direction, but saying that going with a one time internet connection will completely lock you out seems over the top.

Free internet is free internet. Back me up here Kotaku.
http://kotaku.com/58...60-at-starbucks

I used to ride an hour to my friends house to play Diablo II back in the day since he had a cable internet connection and my house had dial-up. I spent a year riding the bus 45 minutes both ways to hook up with a D&D group. I set up a memory card with a buddies DA:O save and mailed it to him so that he could play DAII while he was serving overseas.

My point here is that a one time internet connection is not that big an obstacle. If it's important to you, you can find a way. You'll have literally months to prepare. I'm not saying it's ideal or that it's not onerous, but at the same time, Bioware has set up some pretty solid reasons why just loading from a previous save game doesn't work, and they want to go to something else. They are no doubt looking into whether having your keep state in a seperate file that you can put onto a flashdrive is workable or not. If for whatever reason they can't, by all means be disappointed, but don't act like creating a contingency plan is impossible.

Firstly, I'm not in America and things can be different in different countries,
secondly, carrying my console and TV onto the bus and then carrying them around while hunting for a place with free internet which won't turf me out when I try to plug them in doesn't appeal to me, especially with the weight of the TV and the cost of replacing it if I drop and damage it. 
Especially as in my country there are laws concerning TV sets with a need for a location to have a license for it to be there.
I have not seen anything from anyone at Bioware suggesting that the flashdrive option is compatible with their plans and it is better to encourage them to do so than silently hope.

[OdanUrr]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

Firstly, I'm not in America and things can be different in different countries,
secondly, carrying my console and TV onto the bus and then carrying them around while hunting for a place with free internet which won't turf me out when I try to plug them in doesn't appeal to me, especially with the weight of the TV and the cost of replacing it if I drop and damage it. 
Especially as in my country there are laws concerning TV sets with a need for a location to have a license for it to be there.
I have not seen anything from anyone at Bioware suggesting that the flashdrive option is compatible with their plans and it is better to encourage them to do so than silently hope.

1) Do you have a home wireless network?

2) Can your console access wireless networks?

If yes to both, problem solved. If your console can't access wireless networks, however, you could still buy a router and use an ethernet cable. It's messier but it does the trick.

[Eternal Phoenix]

You know...reading the comments from Gaider and Allen, I'm pretty certain that Hawke and The Warden will be showing up and I'm very interested to see how this is handled...

[Clockwork_Wings]

Elton John is dead wrote...

You know...reading the comments from Gaider and Allen, I'm pretty certain that Hawke and The Warden will be showing up and I'm very interested to see how this is handled...

I know, right?  I just hope they don't tell us until we get that far in the game.  I want to drop the contoller and go, "That's who now?"

[Sylvius the Mad]

OdanUrr wrote...

1) Do you have a home wireless network?

2) Can your console access wireless networks?

If yes to both, problem solved. If your console can't access wireless networks, however, you could still buy a router and use an ethernet cable. It's messier but it does the trick.

He said he doesn't have a home internet connection at all.