166 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes to pale/blue/purple red eyed elves as for always EVUUL races no HELL no.*hate it in D&D*

for lawful good paladins sure

[Shadow Fox]

Rawgrim wrote...

Silfren wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

"Dark" doesn't necessarily refer to skin tone, more attitude.

Or they've killed so many that they're stained dark, such as in my example. ;P

That is EXACTLY the sort of thing that plays into racist tropes, however.  It's what Faerunner was getting at, and the point is a valid one.  An entire race of elves who are evil as a matter of course, and they're universally dark-skinned?  YES, this IS a racist trope.  Quite beyond the fact it's already been done in quite a few other fantasy settings and has no need to be repeated here, it is quite tiresome to see dark skin once again equated with evil.

The dark elves in the Forgotten Realms arn`t all evil. Drizzt being the most famous character from that setting is a good dark elf.

If I remember correctly, there is a religious reason behind their dark skin AND white hair. A large group of elves durned their back on the elven pantheon, way back, and got cursed and sent underground for it. Blackening their skin, whitening their hair, and making it very difficult for them to physically function in daylight.

There are still dark skinned elves in the Forgotten Realms, though. These arn`t drow elves, but "normal" elves from the south of the map.

The is no racism behind this bit at all.

Drows aren't even Dark Elves according to a FW wiki those are Elves that live in a desert.

[Rawgrim]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Silfren wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

"Dark" doesn't necessarily refer to skin tone, more attitude.

Or they've killed so many that they're stained dark, such as in my example. ;P

That is EXACTLY the sort of thing that plays into racist tropes, however.  It's what Faerunner was getting at, and the point is a valid one.  An entire race of elves who are evil as a matter of course, and they're universally dark-skinned?  YES, this IS a racist trope.  Quite beyond the fact it's already been done in quite a few other fantasy settings and has no need to be repeated here, it is quite tiresome to see dark skin once again equated with evil.

The dark elves in the Forgotten Realms arn`t all evil. Drizzt being the most famous character from that setting is a good dark elf.

If I remember correctly, there is a religious reason behind their dark skin AND white hair. A large group of elves durned their back on the elven pantheon, way back, and got cursed and sent underground for it. Blackening their skin, whitening their hair, and making it very difficult for them to physically function in daylight.

There are still dark skinned elves in the Forgotten Realms, though. These arn`t drow elves, but "normal" elves from the south of the map.

The is no racism behind this bit at all.

Drows aren't even Dark Elves according to a FW wiki those are Elves that live in a desert.

Odd then that the first trilogy about Drizzt is called the Dark Elf trilogy, and is almost entirely set in the underdark, with almost an entire cast of drow characters.

[Shadow Fox]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes to pale/blue/purple red eyed elves as for always EVUUL races no HELL no.*hate it in D&D*

for lawful good paladins sure

I'm just sick of hearing drama over good Drow,Orcs,Tieflings etc...

[Rawgrim]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes to pale/blue/purple red eyed elves as for always EVUUL races no HELL no.*hate it in D&D*

for lawful good paladins sure

I'm just sick of hearing drama over good Drow,Orcs,Tieflings etc...

Add good vampires into the mix. Ugh.

[Shadow Fox]

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Silfren wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

"Dark" doesn't necessarily refer to skin tone, more attitude.

Or they've killed so many that they're stained dark, such as in my example. ;P

That is EXACTLY the sort of thing that plays into racist tropes, however.  It's what Faerunner was getting at, and the point is a valid one.  An entire race of elves who are evil as a matter of course, and they're universally dark-skinned?  YES, this IS a racist trope.  Quite beyond the fact it's already been done in quite a few other fantasy settings and has no need to be repeated here, it is quite tiresome to see dark skin once again equated with evil.

The dark elves in the Forgotten Realms arn`t all evil. Drizzt being the most famous character from that setting is a good dark elf.

If I remember correctly, there is a religious reason behind their dark skin AND white hair. A large group of elves durned their back on the elven pantheon, way back, and got cursed and sent underground for it. Blackening their skin, whitening their hair, and making it very difficult for them to physically function in daylight.

There are still dark skinned elves in the Forgotten Realms, though. These arn`t drow elves, but "normal" elves from the south of the map.

The is no racism behind this bit at all.

Drows aren't even Dark Elves according to a FW wiki those are Elves that live in a desert.

Odd then that the first trilogy about Drizzt is called the Dark Elf trilogy, and is almost entirely set in the underdark, with almost an entire cast of drow characters.

Turns out I was wrong Dark Elves were the ancestors of Drow.
forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_elf

[Rawgrim]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Silfren wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

"Dark" doesn't necessarily refer to skin tone, more attitude.

Or they've killed so many that they're stained dark, such as in my example. ;P

That is EXACTLY the sort of thing that plays into racist tropes, however.  It's what Faerunner was getting at, and the point is a valid one.  An entire race of elves who are evil as a matter of course, and they're universally dark-skinned?  YES, this IS a racist trope.  Quite beyond the fact it's already been done in quite a few other fantasy settings and has no need to be repeated here, it is quite tiresome to see dark skin once again equated with evil.

The dark elves in the Forgotten Realms arn`t all evil. Drizzt being the most famous character from that setting is a good dark elf.

If I remember correctly, there is a religious reason behind their dark skin AND white hair. A large group of elves durned their back on the elven pantheon, way back, and got cursed and sent underground for it. Blackening their skin, whitening their hair, and making it very difficult for them to physically function in daylight.

There are still dark skinned elves in the Forgotten Realms, though. These arn`t drow elves, but "normal" elves from the south of the map.

The is no racism behind this bit at all.

Drows aren't even Dark Elves according to a FW wiki those are Elves that live in a desert.

Odd then that the first trilogy about Drizzt is called the Dark Elf trilogy, and is almost entirely set in the underdark, with almost an entire cast of drow characters.

Turns out I was wrong Dark Elves were the ancestors of Drow.
forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_elf

Mostly "surfacers" still call them dark elves. They are changing the Forgotten Realms again now, though. Due to the mess that was the 4th edition. It wouldn`t surprise me if they change the term entirely this time.

[Shadow Fox]

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes to pale/blue/purple red eyed elves as for always EVUUL races no HELL no.*hate it in D&D*

for lawful good paladins sure

I'm just sick of hearing drama over good Drow,Orcs,Tieflings etc...

Add good vampires into the mix. Ugh.

Vampires Wut? a good Half Vampire or Tiefling I can buy but aren't D&D Vampires just demonically possessed corpses?

[Angrywolves]

Uh I don't think we want to get off into the racism thing because what will happen is you'll get sides arguing and the thread will get locked , ending the discussion .
I think it's still early in the discussion and I wouldn't want that to happen prematurely.
I apologize if anyone was offended.
They're usually called dark elves or drow and appear in various fantasy games and books.
In my experience , just mine in books I've read, games I've played they're almost always evil.
As someone else pointed out there are good dark elves in maybe games they've played or books they've read.
They can be dark skinned or light skinned . A lot of animals that live underground , are very light, white or albino.
I thought, when recalling the deep roads in DA2 and finding out some elves had been forced underground , that so called dark elves or drow might have resulted from that.
Not competing with dnd, tunnels and trolls or any other games nor stealing ideas from any nor am I advocating Bioware do so.

[Rawgrim]

Angrywolves wrote...

Uh I don't think we want to get off into the racism thing because what will happen is you'll get sides arguing and the thread will get locked , ending the discussion .
I think it's still early in the discussion and I wouldn't want that to happen prematurely.
I apologize if anyone was offended.
They're usually called dark elves or drow and appear in various fantasy games and books.
In my experience , just mine in books I've read, games I've played they're almost always evil.
As someone else pointed out there are good dark elves in maybe games they've played or books they've read.
They can be dark skinned or light skinned . A lot of animals that live underground , are very light, white or albino.
I thought, when recalling the deep roads in DA2 and finding out some elves had been forced underground , that so called dark elves or drow might have resulted from that.
Not competing with dnd, tunnels and trolls or any other games nor stealing ideas from any nor am I advocating Bioware do so.

The dark elves comes from norse mythology, originally. If i remember correctly, they helped Loki craft a wig for one of the godesses, after Loki cut off her braids.

[Dayze]

Inregards to blackness being equated with evil; in european culture I'm pretty sure we've been doing that before they had any real interaction with black people.

Its just an aspect of their culture; probably has to do more with being associated with the night than with the color in and of itself.

By that same note; vampires being mostly evil, almost always male and white, like crazy white, is racist.

[Dayze]

That being said; it does seem like there will be darker skinned elves available in Inquisition.

Its also possible the ancestors of the current elves were on a somewhat more "evil" side, considering their knowledge of blood magic, association with mirrors and demons.....doesn't make them seem all soft and cuddly, and they had to get that ability somehow, like by cutting people open to get their blood to practice it.....

Considering Dragon Age's setting, it would not exactly be surprising if they were less than good, it would make them fit in with everybody else around them.

That being said; they usually try to have a balanced or more complex view of things, so I doubt it will or would be as crazy evil as the Drow societies.

[Heimdall]

Rawgrim wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...
Uh I don't think we want to get off into the racism thing because what will happen is you'll get sides arguing and the thread will get locked , ending the discussion .
I think it's still early in the discussion and I wouldn't want that to happen prematurely.
I apologize if anyone was offended.
They're usually called dark elves or drow and appear in various fantasy games and books.
In my experience , just mine in books I've read, games I've played they're almost always evil.
As someone else pointed out there are good dark elves in maybe games they've played or books they've read.
They can be dark skinned or light skinned . A lot of animals that live underground , are very light, white or albino.
I thought, when recalling the deep roads in DA2 and finding out some elves had been forced underground , that so called dark elves or drow might have resulted from that.
Not competing with dnd, tunnels and trolls or any other games nor stealing ideas from any nor am I advocating Bioware do so.

The dark elves comes from norse mythology, originally. If i remember correctly, they helped Loki craft a wig for one of the godesses, after Loki cut off her braids.

]I believe there's something of a question whether or not dark elves are actually a synonym for dwarf in Norse myth.  I think...

[mousestalker]

The D&D dark elves come from a misreading of Tolkien. Everything else is pure retcon in a somewhat futile attempt to dodge the Tolkien estate attorneys.

As for drow in DA, I'd rather not. I loved the whole Eilestraeean concept in D&D and the whole evil elf back story, but none of that really has any place in Thedas.

[Rawgrim]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...
Uh I don't think we want to get off into the racism thing because what will happen is you'll get sides arguing and the thread will get locked , ending the discussion .
I think it's still early in the discussion and I wouldn't want that to happen prematurely.
I apologize if anyone was offended.
They're usually called dark elves or drow and appear in various fantasy games and books.
In my experience , just mine in books I've read, games I've played they're almost always evil.
As someone else pointed out there are good dark elves in maybe games they've played or books they've read.
They can be dark skinned or light skinned . A lot of animals that live underground , are very light, white or albino.
I thought, when recalling the deep roads in DA2 and finding out some elves had been forced underground , that so called dark elves or drow might have resulted from that.
Not competing with dnd, tunnels and trolls or any other games nor stealing ideas from any nor am I advocating Bioware do so.

The dark elves comes from norse mythology, originally. If i remember correctly, they helped Loki craft a wig for one of the godesses, after Loki cut off her braids.

]I believe there's something of a question whether or not dark elves are actually a synonym for dwarf in Norse myth.  I think...

Alv = elf in norwegian. In icelandic, i think its alf that translates as elf. Alver\\Alfar if plural. Snorre Sturlasson, who wrote the Poetic Edda, was icelandic, though. Dwarf is dverg. I think the confusion comes from the size of the creatures. Both were very small.

[KENNY4753]

Plently of people complain about Thedas not having any Asains so why is it so bad for people to want Dark Elves in Thedas.

[Rawgrim]

mousestalker wrote...

The D&D dark elves come from a misreading of Tolkien. Everything else is pure retcon in a somewhat futile attempt to dodge the Tolkien estate attorneys.

As for drow in DA, I'd rather not. I loved the whole Eilestraeean concept in D&D and the whole evil elf back story, but none of that really has any place in Thedas.

You should see what they included in the 4th edition. A tolkien`ish elf race thats called Eladrin. Thats not like Tolkien`s Eldarin at all....

[Han Shot First]

I'm all for the addition of new fantasy races. Not that I think they are necessary or the series is somehow lesser without them, but anything that expands the universe is a good thing.

Whether it is Dark Elves, Centaurs, Gnomes, Dryads, ect, ect...I certainly wouldn't complain.

[n7stormrunner]

I have one question, why... what would it add to the setting?

[Rawgrim]

I could see dryads working well in Thedas. That wolf lady in the first game looked kind of dryad`ish.

[Nimzo Witch]

No, for all the reasons stated thus far.

[WardenWade]

Rawgrim wrote...

I could see dryads working well in Thedas. That wolf lady in the first game looked kind of dryad`ish.

That's a good point   Things may have changed and I may misremember, but I thought in The Stolen Throne dryads were in fact mentioned as one of the dangers of the Nahashin Marshes.

Modifié par WardenWade, 03 octobre 2013 - 02:05 .

[Rawgrim]

WardenWade wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I could see dryads working well in Thedas. That wolf lady in the first game looked kind of dryad`ish.

Excellent point   Things may have changed and I may misremember, but I thought in The Stolen Throne dryads were in fact mentioned as one of the dangers of the Nahashin Marshes.

This is true. Could still be just tales and superstition, though.

[Heimdall]

Rawgrim wrote...

Alv = elf in norwegian. In icelandic, i think its alf that translates as elf. AlverAlfar if plural. Snorre Sturlasson, who wrote the Poetic Edda, was icelandic, though. Dwarf is dverg. I think the confusion comes from the size of the creatures. Both were very small.

Admittedly I'm availing myself of Wikipedia, but what I've turned up is three words.  Svartálfar (black elves), Dökkàlfar (dark elves), and Ljósálfar (light elves).  The confusion seems to be that the former, black elves, appears to be used synonymously with dwarf at times.  The story you described is actually mentioned as an example.

There are also some theories that Dökkálfar are actually dwarves under another name since they both live underground.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 03 octobre 2013 - 02:12 .