508 réponses à ce sujet

[Major Crackhead]

Couldn't we "disrespect" the Qun in even DA2 by slaughtering a bunch of unarmed Qunari prisoners and siding with that b!tch Petrice?

It'd be pretty stupid to not have those kind of options in DA3, unless Bioware wants to steamline player character dialogue and choices even more.

[sandalisthemaker]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I don't hate the Qunari, but I will check them if they need checking, Charlie Murphy style.

Like the DA2 Arishok, I'm sure there will be more Qunari in desperate need of checking in the future. 

[Wulfram]

If I know someone's a rapist and a murderer, I don't have a problem judging them on that, even with limited other information about their life.

[Rhiens VI]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You don't have to be an expert to realize how little we know of the Qunari. Little enough that we can't make any full conclusions, without filling in a lot of blanks with our own speculations. That doesn't keep half of you back, from claiming they are an absolute evil and worthy only of being on the recieving side of genocide.

Which has nothing to do with the topic of this particular thread. I'll ask again, why it is unacceptable for our -characters- to openly reject and hate the Qun?

What my -character- sees, is an alien cult that practices slavery and opposes everything he believes in. 

Modifié par Rhiens VI, 09 octobre 2013 - 09:09 .

[sandalisthemaker]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Antagonist doesn't necessarily equate to evil either.

Meh.  They will be opposed to the player, and that's really all that matters.

Unless the player can join them.

Hmmm....
Highly unlikely.

[Beerfish]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


I have never once claimed that the Qunari was flawless. I defend them, because people are ignorant and attack the Qunari, at points they know nothing about, and try to pass off their opinions as absolute truths. If people had the braincells to rub together, then they would be able to see the points in the Qun worth striking. But alas, this is BSN, and BSN'ers will never change.

And those points are?  And I don't want you to tell me what they are.  I want the Quanari I have met in this game do so.  Like most theoretical paths or political views or religious views things look wonderful in theory and many would for sure work well if all things preached were adhered to.  The Qunari I have met in game simply have not at all acted in the fashion that their way of life supposidely preaches.  They make very little attempt to even properly explain these views or their way of life and all the wonderful things they bring.

Like many other philosophies or ways of life the one sin favort seem to want to beat you over the head with their views rather than actually win you over. 

I can see why you are a big supporter of the Qun however as you talk just like most of the Qunari we meet in the games.  Our way is great, those that don't see that are dumb and not to be trifled with.

[Beerfish]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You don't have to be an expert to realize how little we know of the Qunari. Little enough that we can't make any full conclusions, without filling in a lot of blanks with our own speculations. That doesn't keep half of you back, from claiming they are an absolute evil and worthy only of being on the recieving side of genocide. Which of course begs the question, of who exactly announced you lords of right'n'wrong.

Nor does it keep more than a small number of people being all giddy about the values of the Qunari with scant information.

[CronoDragoon]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Like the DA2 Arishok, I'm sure there will be more Qunari in desperate need of checking in the future. 

The Arishok was a checking to remember. /bilbopipe

[Mox Ruuga]

Major Crackhead wrote...

Couldn't we "disrespect" the Qun in even DA2 by slaughtering a bunch of unarmed Qunari prisoners and siding with that b!tch Petrice?

It'd be pretty stupid to not have those kind of options in DA3, unless Bioware wants to steamline player character dialogue and choices even more.

I briefly touched on this point earlier on, but it is good to bring it up.

The times that we were able to go against the Qun in DA2, we were forced to side with the cartoonishly evil Petrice. In fact, everyone who opposed the Qun in DA2 seemed to be of the same cartoon villain mold. Like that mercenary commander who killed Seamus' Qunbot pal, or Petrice's psycho templar body guard.

In DA:I, should Bioware condescend to provide those of us with little love for Qun some new options, I would appreciate some more multi-faceted opponents of the Qun.

[Beerfish]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Antagonist doesn't necessarily equate to evil either.

It usally does if you are the opponent of the antagonist and not Switzerland.

[Gikia-Kimikia]

Er, not to be a wet blanket or anything, but as someone who actually admires certain aspects of the Qun, I... really don't see anything wrong with people's potential hatred of the whole idea...? I mean, yeah, there are quite a lot of things about the Qun that are utterly despicable, it doesn't take mountainous ignorance or delicate Western sensibilities to see that there are some monstrous practices at play here (i.e. the plight of the Saarebas, the Tamassrans' ritual, qamek-assisted lobotomies, etc.). Even if I personally I find the theory of Qunari society enthralling, and the idea of having a role hand-picked for you at a young age based on your own talents and skills potentially comforting, I can definitely see why such a system would make people uncomfortable, and even disgust them outright. There is a certain lack of choice, a giving up of the kind of individuality which many people are quite accustomed to, and fond of, having. And I think that both revulsion and fascination are perfectly understandable reactions.

Anyway, as for my opinion on the OP's actual point, I fully agree that the ability to express more concrete opinions would be a welcome change, should they find a way to implement it. (This is especially so regarding the Qun, as it has been pointed out before that we have been able to express some level of disdain or support for a great many other things, but about the Qun we have been distinctly more tactful in comparison, even in disagreement.) Granted, I'm fairly certain that expressing said opinions would close off some form of content from us at some point, depending on to whom they are being expressed, but I think it would definitely help in the area of roleplaying and immersion, and add some weight to the Inquisitor as a character.

Modifié par Caerulii, 09 octobre 2013 - 09:21 .

[AresKeith]

Beerfish wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Antagonist doesn't necessarily equate to evil either.

It usally does if you are the opponent of the antagonist and not Switzerland.

Still doesn't mean that the antagonist is evil

[sandalisthemaker]

CronoDragoon wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Like the DA2 Arishok, I'm sure there will be more Qunari in desperate need of checking in the future. 

The Arishok was a checking to remember. /bilbopipe

Hoping for some more checking opportunities in DA:I. Not expecting too much, since the Veil tear needs tending to, but I'm hoping to stop a full on Qunari invasion in a curb-stomp battle in a future title. DA4 with any luck.

[billy the squid]

Beerfish wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


I have never once claimed that the Qunari was flawless. I defend them, because people are ignorant and attack the Qunari, at points they know nothing about, and try to pass off their opinions as absolute truths. If people had the braincells to rub together, then they would be able to see the points in the Qun worth striking. But alas, this is BSN, and BSN'ers will never change.

And those points are?  And I don't want you to tell me what they are.  I want the Quanari I have met in this game do so.  Like most theoretical paths or political views or religious views things look wonderful in theory and many would for sure work well if all things preached were adhered to.  The Qunari I have met in game simply have not at all acted in the fashion that their way of life supposidely preaches.  They make very little attempt to even properly explain these views or their way of life and all the wonderful things they bring.

Like many other philosophies or ways of life the one sin favort seem to want to beat you over the head with their views rather than actually win you over. 

I can see why you are a big supporter of the Qun however as you talk just like most of the Qunari we meet in the games.  Our way is great, those that don't see that are dumb and not to be trifled with.

Do you expect an in detail explaination of the philisophy from the Antaam? If you're asking the Qunari military branch of the Triumvirate for an explaination of their system of Government you're going to get an incredibly skewed view as their entire purpose is to establish the Qun by force when necessary and protect it's adherents. 

The priesthood and the trade and craftsmen who shape society would likely be a better source of information. 

[Barquiel]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Major Crackhead wrote...

Couldn't we "disrespect" the Qun in even DA2 by slaughtering a bunch of unarmed Qunari prisoners and siding with that b!tch Petrice?

It'd be pretty stupid to not have those kind of options in DA3, unless Bioware wants to steamline player character dialogue and choices even more.

I briefly touched on this point earlier on, but it is good to bring it up.

The times that we were able to go against the Qun in DA2, we were forced to side with the cartoonishly evil Petrice. In fact, everyone who opposed the Qun in DA2 seemed to be of the same cartoon villain mold. Like that mercenary commander who killed Seamus' Qunbot pal, or Petrice's psycho templar body guard.

In DA:I, should Bioware condescend to provide those of us with little love for Qun some new options, I would appreciate some more multi-faceted opponents of the Qun.

You also have to be an "aggressive" Hawke to successfully side with Petrice (I had to cheat via console...).

[EmperorSahlertz]

Wulfram wrote...

If I know someone's a rapist and a murderer, I don't have a problem judging them on that, even with limited other information about their life.

None of which applies to the Qunari... So there's that....

[billy the squid]

Morocco Mole wrote...

You know my friends, its almost like DA2 was a badly written game.

Heresy, you need re-education. Then you can understand the greatness of DA2, you just don't understand at the moment.

[Medhia Nox]

Seriously - where are the "rapist" Qunari I hear so much about? And I don't mean one rapist Qunari - I mean the Qun doctrine that endorses rape - or the rape squads or whatever.

As for "Murderer" - I'd love to see some people's playthroughs. Not that "I'd love to kill them all and destroy their civilization." isn't indictment enough.

Edit: Morocco Mole - you are seriously my favorite poster on these forums.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 09 octobre 2013 - 09:33 .

[wolfhowwl]

Was it 2deep4u?

As Kotaku said, the fanbase went in expecting the arc of Star Wars and instead got handed something out of Sophocles.

[Wulfram]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

If I know someone's a rapist and a murderer, I don't have a problem judging them on that, even with limited other information about their life.

None of which applies to the Qunari... So there's that....

Rape - the Talmassrans asign who you reproduce with.  You don't have the option to refuse.
Murder - Well, just in DA2 there's Arvaraad's attack on Hawke, and the assault on Kirkwall.  Though you could fairly argue they're not egregiously worse than any other people on that score.

But the precise crimes I mentioned aren't the point of my analogy.  Rather than you don't need to know all the details of their life to judge someone abhorrent, if the acts you do hear about are sufficiently heinous.

[Medhia Nox]

@Wulfram: So... no moral relativity for you then eh?

I appreciate that honesty.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You assume the breeding program is without consent. You base this on what?
Matter of fact is, a Qunari, of either sex, would probably find it a great honor that they had been chosen to reproduce, since that means they are exemplars of what is best in the Qunari.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 09 octobre 2013 - 09:40 .

[Medhia Nox]

Also - eugenics, though I would oppose it, is the only way to keep a sapient species biologically strong.

Individualistic breeding has, by and large, failed and the laundry list of medical maladies piles up yearly.

I don't support it - but for a fanbase that spews nonsense about pragmatism so often - I would have expected a little more of it (but maybe that's just the Renegard Shepard fanbase).