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Biowares stance on Romance


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#226
zMataxa

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Bionuts wrote...

zMataxa wrote...


Humans consist of both a rational mind and emotions.
The latter can often lead to what others mind term "episodes of idiocy".


Yes, but we're confronted with those situations every day.

Considering that all 8-10 crew members have been close to death countless times and survived it shows they're more than capable of avoiding idiocy at the worst moments possible.

And I'm to believe that all crew members lives can die based on a favor or 3 sentences?


________________

All the time? Absolutely no.
Can it happen - Yes!

That's why I don't mind using the save button.
I don't always like the direction a choice takes me and i rewrite it best as i can.
In the end though - unfortunately, you and I have only have so many story line options.
I will admit at times, I was VERY frustrated with a direction of a story arc - like almost all mages in DA2 seem to go "beserk".
All i could do is shrug.
So I can sympathize with you in a general sense.
I just got irked at different sections and there were quite a few.
But that's the downside of a RPG written for a wider audience.
Take what's great and enjoy as best as you can the rest.

#227
Bionuts

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What the hell man

#228
Bionuts

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zMataxa wrote...

________________

All the time? Absolutely no.
Can it happen - Yes!

That's why I don't mind using the save button.
I don't always like the direction a choice takes me and i rewrite it best as i can.
In the end though - unfortunately, you and I have only have so many story line options.
I will admit at times, I was VERY frustrated with a direction of a story arc - like almost all mages in DA2 seem to go "beserk".
All i could do is shrug.
So I can sympathize with you in a general sense.
I just got irked at different sections and there were quite a few.
But that's the downside of a RPG written for a wider audience.
Take what's great and enjoy as best as you can the rest.



Consider that all crew members lives are strongly dependant on whether you did them a favor or not. Just one, sure. They didn't survive that long by choking.

#229
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.

#230
zMataxa

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Ravensword wrote...

Kazanth wrote...

The romance forums were okay when they, you know, actually discussed the characters and romances. It's a shame that most of it was just megathreads of people worshipping the characters by spamming fanart/fanfiction/etc, with anyone who dared say something controversial about the character being ganged up on (Miranda Civil War). It didn't leave much room for actual discussion. If we ever get another character/romance forum I hope that megathreads like that are banned and stay in the group discussions where they blong.


Pretty much this. The romance subforum, when not getting into pissing matches over whose waifu/husbando was better, it was just a while lotta nothing; just people shooting the ****.

____________________

Yet another great point in support of a separate subforum sooner rather than later.
As for "just people shooting the ****" - isn't that what the this main DAI forum is about - most of the time except when there are a few tidbits to discuss?
They just did it in another subforum.

#231
Star fury

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.


Bull****. Even bad publicity can be good for sales sometimes. Many people bought ME after hearing about controversy on Fawx News.

#232
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

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Romance threads remind me a lot of mage/templar threads.

They're ubiquitous on the forum, generally extremely tedious to read, usually reach ridiculous numbers of pages, basically involve the same few kinds of posts repeated ad infinitum, and I generally don't find myself agreeing with anyone on any side of the argument.

#233
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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Star fury wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.


Bull****. Even bad publicity can be good for sales sometimes. Many people bought ME after hearing about controversy on Fawx News.


And the games also got banned in certain countries. ^_^

#234
zMataxa

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Bionuts wrote...

Consider that all crew members lives are strongly dependant on whether you did them a favor or not. Just one, sure. They didn't survive that long by choking.


I get it - You don't like that.
I have no problem with using such intra-game triggers, using possibly seemingly inoccuous moments, to move the story along to different conclusions.
For me it reflects how life can be changed suddenly in a huge way by what seemed so small and insignificant.
And Yes, it can level even the most powerful.
Sorry it does not work for you.:unsure:

#235
zMataxa

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.

____________________________

Bioware must not have got that note.
I hear there's still romances in DAI.

#236
Sylvius the Mad

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think this is an interesting point. I'm not a fan of the player having huge impacts on how the other characters behave, because I think it takes away from the NPCs.

It changes the NPCs, certainly, but I wouldn't presuppose that those changes diminish those characters.  Within that player's narrative, it might make the characters even better.

#237
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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zMataxa wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.

____________________________

Bioware must not have got that note.
I hear there's still romances in DAI.


Image IPB

We're talking about why they'd be annoyed by romances being in the game, not if they are including them or not.

#238
zMataxa

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

Star fury wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.


Bull****. Even bad publicity can be good for sales sometimes. Many people bought ME after hearing about controversy on Fawx News.


And the games also got banned in certain countries. ^_^

_________________

You're worried about far eastern asian countries who are more restrictive and conservative than our western sociteies?!  You should realize it's a sign of a more liberal minded game.
Is that bad to a Mad Hanar?

Modifié par zMataxa, 04 octobre 2013 - 07:17 .


#239
Chanda

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I think the point is, if Bioware is still including the romances in the game, they must not be that annoyed by them.

They're probably annoyed by all the fighting over it, though.

#240
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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zMataxa wrote...


_________________

You're worried about far eastern asian countries who are mopre restrictive and conservative than our western sociteies?!  You should realize it's a sign of a more liberal minded game.
Is that bad to a Mad Hanar?


Sales are sales, regardless of whatever political statement you want to make. 

#241
zMataxa

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.

____________________________

Bioware must not have got that note.
I hear there's still romances in DAI.


We're talking about why they'd be annoyed by romances being in the game, not if they are including them or not.


_________________________

Actually thread title is "Bioware Stance on Romance"
You're just trying to work in the "annoying" part.

#242
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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Oh FFS I got that from what the OP said.

This is a conversation I've already had and it's just going to go in the same circles again. Peace.

#243
MakutaDax

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.


Actually, the last big "upset" I recall was over DA2's story, reused maps, and day one DLC. I can't recall much negative, recent press concerning Bioware's romances, domestically speaking.

Of course, this is me not counting internet forums, BSN included, as press. lol

#244
zMataxa

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

zMataxa wrote...


_________________

You're worried about far eastern asian countries who are mopre restrictive and conservative than our western sociteies?!  You should realize it's a sign of a more liberal minded game.
Is that bad to a Mad Hanar?


Sales are sales, regardless of whatever political statement you want to make. 

____________________

No.  Actually game creation is a mix of sales and a creative vision and a goal.
It's ONLY some people that reduce the world to $.
And those types of people are a whole other discussion as to their worth for a human society that is advancing.
For some people Xnumbers of $ and a creative vision they like is success.
For others, its all bottom line.
I've met many of those souless people.  Not niceesss.

#245
Chanda

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MakutaDax wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.


Actually, the last big "upset" I recall was over DA2's story, reused maps, and day one DLC. I can't recall much negative, recent press concerning Bioware's romances, domestically speaking.

Of course, this is me not counting internet forums, BSN included, as press. lol


If I remember correctly, people complained about waves of enemies coming out of no where, re-used caves and environments, and the unrealistic enemies collapsing into several different body parts when dying in combat kind of thing. Most that I heard about the romances were that people loved Fenris and Anders and Isabela, and were a bit creeped out by Merrill. Oh, and that people really wanted to romance Varric, but he was unavailable.

#246
zMataxa

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wolfhowwl wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

TipsLeFedora wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

TipsLeFedora wrote...

Romance forums are the worst

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LOL! Which is why you had to stop in - say "hello" -  instead of skimming over it.


I hae seen so many horrors in that forum....It was freaking weird man....

_____________

Can you give a one  example ? (I'd love to hear more but i don't want to OT this thread).


Request granted.

Image IPB
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Image IPB


_________________


Thanx for that wolfhowl.
Yeah that's on the wild side.

 

Modifié par zMataxa, 04 octobre 2013 - 08:44 .


#247
Shark17676

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Welcome to the Internet.

#248
Allan Schumacher

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Chaos Hammer wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't understand Bioware's new "romance's are annoying and suckish" stance? There are a few interviews where Gaider says something to effect of "We don't want to put that much effort into something that is ultimately optional."

This is an RPG isn't the majority of the game "optional"? And being a Bioware RPG isn't it about choice? I'm not saying romances are absolutely needed, or that it makes or breaks the game.... just seems like an odd choice considering they made sex into one of the bigger decisions in the game (DR and OGB).


So I briefly touched on some parts of this, and I did say I'd respond so here goes! :happy:

In many ways, a lot of the game IS optional.  I don't know if I could say if the "majority" of the game is or not.  DAO requires you to do quite a bit as part of the crit path, and if DA2 requires you to get money to proceed, how much of the "optional" content is optional?  (waxing philosophical)

Having said that, because a lot of the game is optional, it means that there's a division on where to spend all of our time.  Romances have dependencies on writing (and VO, which is related), Cinematic Design/Animation.  By spending more time on romances, means that we'd have to spend less time on other things.  Sometimes the dependencies are not super easy to realize either.

For example, we want to do more interesting crafting, and if aspects of that involve creating new animations for some weapons, or writing descriptions in some way, that comes with an opportunity cost.  So it's trying to find the right balance that allows those features to be interesting.  Those that love both are probably happy regardless, but those that love only one or the other will not see as much gain in something else.


As for Gaider's snark, I suspect on some level the topic comes up disproportionately.  There's probably also some level of spillover, because while someone may love Romances, I know (SPEAKING FOR MYSELF TIME HERE) it can feel disconcerting when I get the impression (whether it's there or just in my head) that someone will, for example, see Frostbite's Morrigan and conclude "If she looked like that in DAO I wouldn't have romanced her."

Again, elaborating on this being a perspective for myself, the disconcertion comes from my own personal disconnect.  I don't feel romances are necessary although given I like the characters in our games, I'd probably say that I like them well enough.  I know that people will take the announcement of party members and immediately start speculating, which in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But I do see a lot of "Can't be a romance, not hot enough" type of things which makes me feel.... "confused" (for complete lack of a better term... sorry).

Now, my reaction isn't entirely fair.  I definitely feel this way more now that I work at BioWare, and it's because I know a LOT more about the characters than you guys do, and I definitely have my favourites (favourites both in terms of physical attractiveness, as well as character).  So it's kind of a bummer to see a character that I like, think is interesting, and is also attractive, get dismissed as simply being ugly and not worth romancing.  And I'm not actually the writer of said character!

Like I said though, this isn't really the fairest thing for me.  It's more a reflection of me being human and having those faults.  It can be a challenge, and sometimes fingers start typing and while that's not good, the judgment of "don't hit submit" may not come in time.  I have definitely written up some responses and I was just like "I am a bit angry... I should cool off" and I deleted them.  But sometimes that filter doesn't function properly.


Hopefully that helps a bit, even if it's my perspective and not David's (I can't speak for him, obviously).  BioWare continues to write romances, and on some level that gives the implication that we don't really hate it.  I know I don't, and in fact literally read up on them earlier this week durin a lunch. :)


Cheers.

Allan

#249
Allan Schumacher

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

Why? Because other than the ME3 ending, the romances have caused Bioware the most trouble and negative press, that's why.


The concerns over Fox News' influence over our decision making is overstated.

#250
Kaiser Arian XVII

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________________________________________________________
|Worst horrors happen in Romance threads. Good riddance.|

Modifié par Kaiser Arian, 04 octobre 2013 - 08:01 .