543 réponses à ce sujet

[zMataxa]

Br3ad wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Going back to how we got onto that whole "what is a casual gamer" thing in the first place ...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
I also don't believe his claim that players that pursued a romance during a playthrough make a very small percentage. I know casual gamers who played Bioware games, and ALL of them romanced Bastila, Liara, Leliana, etc.

Completion of romances shows in the tracking data. I suppose he could be lying about what the data shows, but to what end?

_______________

It's only tracking if you go online.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least that those who enjoy romances are least likely to go "register achievements" and get the latest DLC.

DLC often expands on romances, so how do you figure? 

_________________

Lotsa possible explanations.
Bad or non-existent interent connection.
Price of DLC relative to main game.
No time to start mucking with DLC.
Can't be bothered to setup online account.
Main game is good enough.

Modifié par zMataxa, 04 octobre 2013 - 07:14 .

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Tali sweat thing, really, just strikes me as mildly odd, the coincidental meeting of interests with someone who was both a chemistry and Tali fan. As for fights, well, there are fights everywhere.

Not when people are talking about what it tastes like. That's a step beyond "mildly odd."

Is there? There's discussion, arguments, but not necessarily fighting. They're two different things.

Fighting is definitely what we have on the mage/templar issue... and I don't think anything can be more than mildly odd if it never extends beyond the Internet.

[Kallimachus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Going against what the mod said to do, heavy risk, but the prize...

Hehe. Well your restraint is appreciated. Though call me "dev"


As for the percentage (I actually don't know them), Chris' language was pretty ambiguous. It's "relatively small?" Relative to what? The only real assessment I can make is that it's probably a "minority" but a minority could still be a million people.

Presumably the number is at least 24%, because that's the number David Gaider gave for players who played at least one of the same-sex romances (as I mentioned previously).

Modifié par Kallimachus, 04 octobre 2013 - 06:52 .

[leaguer of one]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Tali sweat thing, really, just strikes me as mildly odd, the coincidental meeting of interests with someone who was both a chemistry and Tali fan. As for fights, well, there are fights everywhere.

Not when people are talking about what it tastes like. That's a step beyond "mildly odd."

Is there? There's discussion, arguments, but not necessarily fighting. They're two different things.

Midly odd has been here since BG2 with the fans who wanted a romance with the pc and Imoen who is the pc's sister.

Andfor the fights... There is a reason the me3  romace forum is closed.

[wright1978]

philippe willaume wrote...

For me the point of romance is that it is a really nice role playing elements but I would prefer a more complex characterization of the companion.
Yes some people get attached to a character and so what... no child or animal is hurt in the making of the movie.
In fact you don't even need romance for that to happen.

besides are we really sure that it is that optional,
http://imgur.com/a/SUo9r see who did the warden romance

Yep i find the romance content an important roleplaying feature because it is a fundamental part of life and trying to roleplay a character & having that element completely locked out or singularly forced feels jarring. RPG's  have lots of optional content & i'm certainly glad this piece of optional content is a staple of the Bioware RPG at the moment.

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Tali sweat thing, really, just strikes me as mildly odd, the coincidental meeting of interests with someone who was both a chemistry and Tali fan. As for fights, well, there are fights everywhere.

Not when people are talking about what it tastes like. That's a step beyond "mildly odd."

Is there? There's discussion, arguments, but not necessarily fighting. They're two different things.

Fighting is definitely what we have on the mage/templar issue... and I don't think anything can be more than mildly odd if it never extends beyond the Internet.

Genuinely wondering what a fictional character's booty sweat tastes like is bizarre.

[Br3admax]

zMataxa wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Going back to how we got onto that whole "what is a casual gamer" thing in the first place ...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
I also don't believe his claim that players that pursued a romance during a playthrough make a very small percentage. I know casual gamers who played Bioware games, and ALL of them romanced Bastila, Liara, Leliana, etc.

Completion of romances shows in the tracking data. I suppose he could be lying about what the data shows, but to what end?

_______________

It's only tracking if you go online.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least that those who enjoy romances are least likely to go "register achievements" and get the latest DLC.

DLC often expands on romances, so how do you figure? 

_________________

Lotsa possible explanations.
Bad or non-existent interent connection.
Price of DLC relative to main game.
No time to start mucking with DLC.
Can't be bothered tro setup online account.
Main game is good enough.

But most of that has almost nothing to do with the romances. that's just anyone in general. 

[Mathias]

Deadmac wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
I don't believe him, but I don't know whether if he's flat out lying or just stretching the truth. Perhaps he's exaggerating about "a very small minority". What defines a very small minority to him? But this is far from the first time i've seen Chris Priestly say something along the lines of "Hey I'm right, I've got the stats to back it up. But I'm not gonna show them to you." You know regardless of whether or not he's telling the truth, if you're not gonna show you statistical evidence, then don't bring it up in the first place. I'm of the mindset where if you have proof, either show it or shut up about it.

Its all about perception. Even though you see a lot of posts about romance, the possible reality is that they are only being driven by a few players.

3.2 million copies of "Dragon Age: Origins" were sold.

Can you personally prove 3.2 million people liked the romance options?

Where are those 3.2 million people?

Did you happen to notice that barely a handful of people are posting in the forums?

It's interesting that you bring that up. Ok so let's put some perspective into things. Let's say that out of the 3.2 million people that bought it, only 10% romanced the characters. That's 320,000 players, that's still a loooot of people. Plus we already know the hardcore Bioware fans make up a minority of the consumers.

[Xilizhra]

That's incredibly arbitrary. I can't agree. Things are odd or creepy or whatever based on themselves intrinsically. The context matters, but there are still lines.

I think you're being vastly more arbitrary. The discussion was wholly ephemeral and did no harm to anyone, nor did it even carry the possibility of such. It wasn't even hostile.

[leaguer of one]

The Hierophant wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Tali sweat thing, really, just strikes me as mildly odd, the coincidental meeting of interests with someone who was both a chemistry and Tali fan. As for fights, well, there are fights everywhere.

Not when people are talking about what it tastes like. That's a step beyond "mildly odd."

Is there? There's discussion, arguments, but not necessarily fighting. They're two different things.

Fighting is definitely what we have on the mage/templar issue... and I don't think anything can be more than mildly odd if it never extends beyond the Internet.

Genuinely wondering what a fictional character's booty sweat tastes like is bizarre.

So is asking for the option for the pc to romance his/her sister.

[Br3admax]

leaguer of one wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Tali sweat thing, really, just strikes me as mildly odd, the coincidental meeting of interests with someone who was both a chemistry and Tali fan. As for fights, well, there are fights everywhere.

Not when people are talking about what it tastes like. That's a step beyond "mildly odd."

Is there? There's discussion, arguments, but not necessarily fighting. They're two different things.

Midly odd has been here since BG2 with the fans who wanted a romance with the pc and Imoen who is the pc's sister.

It is kind of weird, them not only being raised as siblings, but then turning out to be actual siblings, you would think that it would stop. 

[zMataxa]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Tali sweat thing, really, just strikes me as mildly odd, the coincidental meeting of interests with someone who was both a chemistry and Tali fan. As for fights, well, there are fights everywhere.

Not when people are talking about what it tastes like. That's a step beyond "mildly odd."

Is there? There's discussion, arguments, but not necessarily fighting. They're two different things.

_________________

That's because your tastes err on the more traditional and composed side (nothing wrong with that).
It's simply beyond mildly odd from your vantage point.

Many other people would say your pervasive interest as an adult in elves, dragons, darkspawan, mages and Ferelden is a step beyond mildly odd.
I would agree that discussing sweat tastes does interest a smaller group in society.
Adding a "step beyond mildly odd" adds in your judgement as to what is right.
Are they hurting anyone with this discussion?

[leaguer of one]

Br3ad wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Tali sweat thing, really, just strikes me as mildly odd, the coincidental meeting of interests with someone who was both a chemistry and Tali fan. As for fights, well, there are fights everywhere.

Not when people are talking about what it tastes like. That's a step beyond "mildly odd."

Is there? There's discussion, arguments, but not necessarily fighting. They're two different things.

Midly odd has been here since BG2 with the fans who wanted a romance with the pc and Imoen who is the pc's sister.

It is kind of weird, them not only being raised as siblings, but then turning out to be actual siblings, you would think that it would stop. 

That fact something like that came out in DA2 prove that the weird is not going away.

[leaguer of one]

zMataxa wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Tali sweat thing, really, just strikes me as mildly odd, the coincidental meeting of interests with someone who was both a chemistry and Tali fan. As for fights, well, there are fights everywhere.

Not when people are talking about what it tastes like. That's a step beyond "mildly odd."

Is there? There's discussion, arguments, but not necessarily fighting. They're two different things.

_________________

That's because your tastes err on the more traditional and composed side (nothing wrong with that).
It's simply beyond mildly odd from your vantage point.

Many other people would say your pervasive interest as an adult in elves, dragons, darkspawan, mages and Ferelden is a step beyond mildly odd.
I would agree that discussing sweat tastes does interest a smaller group in society.
Adding a "step beyond mildly odd" adds in your judgement as to what is right.
Are they hurting anyone with this discussion?

True that's a good point. We can say we think it weird but we don't have a right to have witch hunts about it.

[David Gaider]

Chaos Hammer wrote...
Am I the only one who doesn't understand Bioware's new "romance's are annoying and suckish" stance? There are a few interviews where Gaider says something to effect of "We don't want to put that much effort into something that is ultimately optional."

This is an RPG isn't the majority of the game "optional"? And being a Bioware RPG isn't it about choice? I'm not saying romances are absolutely needed, or that it makes or breaks the game.... just seems like an odd choice considering they made sex into one of the bigger decisions in the game (DR and OGB).

Again, this is not so much about the merit, or lack there of, of romances. Just the oddity of Bioware's decisions.

If you're interpreting my statements as my thinking "romances are annoying and suckish", you probably need to read what I said again and parse the statements a little more carefully.

As for how much effort we're putting into romances, you'll have to see that for yourselves once we actually talk about what we're doing for romances in DAI. If the idea is "we're not putting much effort into it", I'd say once again that it's a poor interpretation of whatever I said. It's not true. Romances are optional, so the amount of effort is small only in comparison to the rest of the game-- and that contrasts only to the amount of attention that content receives from invested fans (both those rabidly in favor as well as those rabidly opposed).

There are people who like romances, and for whom they're the most important element in our game. There are also people who don't use the romance content at all. We know this. The fact that these fans like to take pot-shots at each other is irrelevant to us-- the romance content is not going anywhere and we will keep working to improve it even if it's not the dominant feature in the game... despite how annoying both those groups can sometimes be about it. That is our stance.

Modifié par David Gaider, 04 octobre 2013 - 07:01 .

[leaguer of one]

Filament wrote...

If you want to talk about "driving people away," the overall negative attitude around here has done a lot more to do that (including toward these "romance freaks"), including driving away the devs themselves, than a few people who care more about something than you think they should.

In short, the kicking and screaming about something you don't like to the point if hair pulling is worse enough.

[zMataxa]

Br3ad wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Going back to how we got onto that whole "what is a casual gamer" thing in the first place ...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
I also don't believe his claim that players that pursued a romance during a playthrough make a very small percentage. I know casual gamers who played Bioware games, and ALL of them romanced Bastila, Liara, Leliana, etc.

Completion of romances shows in the tracking data. I suppose he could be lying about what the data shows, but to what end?

_______________

It's only tracking if you go online.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least that those who enjoy romances are least likely to go "register achievements" and get the latest DLC.

DLC often expands on romances, so how do you figure? 

_________________

Lotsa possible explanations.
Bad or non-existent interent connection.
Price of DLC relative to main game.
No time to start mucking with DLC.
Can't be bothered tro setup online account.
Main game is good enough.

But most of that has almost nothing to do with the romances. that's just anyone in general. 

__________________

Problem is - you are now making a HUGE assumption.
You are assuming that the online data wou do have reflects all the consumers.
Additionally,  the online competitive achievements and unlocking awesome weapons/armour may actually attract a dispropotionate number of fans who are more interested in competition and less in romance.
These stats could be hugely SKEWED.
Until the methodoloy and stats are out in the open, we can only speculate about their reflectiveness.
I'm sure Big Comapnies are drooling at the idea of eventual cloud delivery of everything. 

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think you're being vastly more arbitrary. The discussion was wholly ephemeral and did no harm to anyone, nor did it even carry the possibility of such. It wasn't even hostile.

I suspect our morals clash. You evaluate based on what impact it actually has. I evaluate based on what it is.

Well, yes. What's the point of judging qualities that don't actually do anything?

[Allan Schumacher]

Br3ad wrote...

As for the percentage (I actually don't know them), Chris' language was pretty ambiguous. It's "relatively small?" Relative to what? The only real assessment I can make is that it's probably a "minority" but a minority could still be a million people.

Hmmm, maybe,but that's kind of large, though in no way unbelievable, just in the way that he worded it.

I could certainly understand that.  The challenge here is deciphering how much Chris' mindset views the phrase compared to us.


I think at this point, a million people for DAO is probably somewhere between 20% - 25%.  It's a tricky thing because our brain won't ignore the absolute numbers.

If 1 person out of 4 didn't like something, I think it's easier to say "a relatively small amount" didn't like something.  1 million out of 4 million though, and we start to get influenced by the larger numbers, I think.

[leaguer of one]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think you're being vastly more arbitrary. The discussion was wholly ephemeral and did no harm to anyone, nor did it even carry the possibility of such. It wasn't even hostile.

I suspect our morals clash. You evaluate based on what impact it actually has. I evaluate based on what it is.

You do both know that's a relative arguement reguardless.

Your arguing on relative terms. With abstracts. That's like weighing air to see if it's heavier then air.