543 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

MakutaDax wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...
Oh, forget the romances! Bioware needs to focus on more important stuff. Like the gameplay and the story.

If they do it properly, there's no reason a well written romance subplot can't enhance both. It just depends on how well they plan it.

It would need to be able to be woven into the plot or else it just sits there as a side dish.  Ala, Zevran, Leliana, and most (if not all) of the Da2 crew.

Well, the devs did say that's what they were aiming for in Inquisition. They want to make the romances feel more organic and actually enhance the story as well as the character interactions. So... Fingers crossed? lol

Integrating the romance subplots into the story is very possible, I can think of one game that did this very well.

[Plaintiff]

Morocco Mole wrote...

in fact, you'd be doing me an enormous favour if you ****ed off forever.

How rude.

If manners were any indication of decency, I might actually give a crap.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Plaintiff wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

in fact, you'd be doing me an enormous favour if you ****ed off forever.

How rude.

If manners were any indication of decency, I might actually give a crap.

Wait, weren't you just telling me how being a decent person means you shouldn't say what you're thinking? Or is that one of those rules that just applies to people other than yourself.

[Plaintiff]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...
Well I certainly can't blame somebody for speaking bluntly about those fans which cross that line where dedication becomes something else. An author has the right to speak his or her mind, same as anybody else, regardless of how right or wrong their views may be.

Of course they have the "right", it's just an astoundingly dumb idea.

Decent person? That boring song and dance? It's much more fun to say what everybody is thinking about the weirdest part of a fanbase. Everybody else speaks their mind for better or worse these days, why shouldn't an author or artist?

Because they owe a portion of their livelihood to these "weirdos"? And responding with hositility generates negative publicity by making them look like ungrateful schmucks?

If they're prepared and willing to accept the consequences, then I guess I don't care.

[Plaintiff]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...
Wait, weren't you just telling me how being a decent person means you shouldn't say what you're thinking? Or is that one of those rules that just applies to people other than yourself.

No, being a decent person means, among other things, that you shouldn't insult people unprovoked.

Manners are just a social construct, you can be "polite" and still be an awful human being. The two are not mutually exclusive. How you word your sentiment isn't even a fraction as important as what the sentiment actually is.

"I hate children and want to kill them all" will never be a nice thing to say, no matter how "politely" you express it.

[Chanda]

They should just lock the whole Inquisition forum down from people who don't actually work for Bioware. When new information comes out, the Devs can post it themselves, the fans can just read it, and there won't be anymore of these threads degrading into flame wars.

[Plaintiff]

Chanda wrote...

They should just lock the whole Inquisition forum down from people who don't actually work for Bioware. When new information comes out, the Devs can post it themselves, the fans can just read it, and there won't be anymore of these threads degrading into flame wars.

Why not just close the site completely and release information through the gaming journalism media?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 04 octobre 2013 - 05:40 .

[Fredward]

Hey guys, everyone is allowed their opinions. And everyone is allowed to dislike everyone for their opinions. And everyone is allowed to hate everyone because of that dislike. It's only when those prejudices (on BOTH sides) get like institutionalized or codified in some way that it becomes an issue.


As for the romances, I have noticed an almost dismissive element from the devs lately. Especially from Gaider, but he's been very eye-rolly about everything lately ('cept cosplayers) but meh. I don't think they mean it much, I don't expect a decrease in the quality of the romance or their total removal or anything like that so it's all copasetic.

[Mr.House]

Chanda wrote...

They should just lock the whole Inquisition forum down from people who don't actually work for Bioware. When new information comes out, the Devs can post it themselves, the fans can just read it, and there won't be anymore of these threads degrading into flame wars.

This site is called a forum.

[Chanda]

Mr.House wrote...

Chanda wrote...

They should just lock the whole Inquisition forum down from people who don't actually work for Bioware. When new information comes out, the Devs can post it themselves, the fans can just read it, and there won't be anymore of these threads degrading into flame wars.

This site is called a forum.

And?

[Mr.House]

Chanda wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Chanda wrote...

They should just lock the whole Inquisition forum down from people who don't actually work for Bioware. When new information comes out, the Devs can post it themselves, the fans can just read it, and there won't be anymore of these threads degrading into flame wars.

This site is called a forum.

And?

What you are suggesting is a blog, not a forum. The very purpose of the site changes.

[Fredward]

Chanda wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Chanda wrote...

They should just lock the whole Inquisition forum down from people who don't actually work for Bioware. When new information comes out, the Devs can post it themselves, the fans can just read it, and there won't be anymore of these threads degrading into flame wars.

This site is called a forum.

And?

Forum means a place where people come together to talk/discuss/argue.

[Chanda]

Mr.House wrote...

Chanda wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Chanda wrote...

They should just lock the whole Inquisition forum down from people who don't actually work for Bioware. When new information comes out, the Devs can post it themselves, the fans can just read it, and there won't be anymore of these threads degrading into flame wars.

This site is called a forum.

And?

What you are suggesting is a blog, not a forum. The very purpose of the site changes.

I don't mean close down the entire Bioware forum. Just the Inquisition part. Like what they did with the Mass Effect Romance part of the forum.


Edit: From Chris Priestly, when he closed the Mass Effect character and romance discussion part of the forum down:

"This forum is now closed.

There is entirely too much fighting,
rule breakage and petty bickering in the threads here. While we
appreciate you like the characters the behavior of many people in this
forum is against the rules and spirit we want on the BSN.

You are
welcome to create Groups for people to discuss their favorite
characters or romances. Many Groups have been created to support their
favorite/hated characters and romances, please continue to create more
groups."

If it can happen there, it can happen here. Lots of fighting and bickering and all that nonsense going on in this part of the forum. It would save the Devs a lot of headaches if they followed suit here. Because, you know, people who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Modifié par Chanda, 04 octobre 2013 - 05:53 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Death threats are harassment, obviously, but not every romance enthusiast make death threats. In fact, I don't think I've seen any romance enthusiast make any threats ever. Can you show me a thread that says "Tell me what Tali's sweat tastes like or I'll come to your place of work and murder you"?

NOTE: I am speaking on my behalf here:

Not every romance enthusiast is going to frustrate me as well. But I'm human, and to be a part of something that has a lot of aspects to it, if a part of it that I don't care as much for (note: I don't hate romances, and I think that for a lot of people they are very important to them) as other aspects, if it was really overrepresented in what people talked to me about, it would still get frustrating. Especially if there are other things that I want to talk about.

Yes, I probably *shouldn't* let myself get frustrated, but it's important to remember that I am still human, I will make mistakes. I will have pissy days where I crashed my car and the work I did was a waste of time because it got cut and I'll just be like RAWR.

For SOME of the topics, such as the necessity of nudity, I get frustrated because I can find a fundamental disconnect between whether or not that is necessity (nevermind the professional considerations about whether or not it's the best place to have our Cindesigners and modelers spend their time).


Do you ever find that there are perspectives on this board that come up so frequently that they tend to grate on you? Even if what the other person is saying isn't really inherently wrong?

Now, it's pretty fair to suggest that I probably should be held to a higher standard than you, since it comes with my job. Although, contrary to popular belief, I haven't really been given any formal "interacting with fans" training. I trial by fire and hooooo boy have I been burned by not properly appreciating a particular perspective. So yeah, sometimes I'll make mistakes. I have been pretty harsh to some that in retrospect may not have deserved it because I read something the wrong way and felt offended. I try to do better, and I try to not let the more obvious low hanging fruit potshots get to me.


What I find most frustrating about this topic (and some other topics as well), is that it solicits a lot of fighting. I find a lot of it, on both sides, to be VERY hostile. I have to play moderator a lot, and I hate playing moderator. There's very little "Well, I disagree with your perspective" and leaving it at that. It escalates like mad. On the one hand, it's a reflection of the passion levels of the fandom, which is a very good thing (yay people like our stuff this much). On the other hand, both sides get VERY hostile and I don't feel comfortable letting either side straight up say hurtful and sometimes even threatening things to each other.


Having said that, I have zero problems with this thread (and will eventually answer the OP the best I can). I can fully recognize "This is content that some people like." I loved the Jaheira romance in BG2 and it was a big part of the game which made me go "HOLY CRAP I LOVE THESE GAMES." The other romances didn't really hit me as much, but I know what it's like to go "That was well done."

But if the topic becomes a lot of people taking each other's bait and engaging in hostility, it's unpleasant for me.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Plaintiff wrote...
Of course they have the "right", it's just an astoundingly dumb idea.

Because they owe a portion of their livelihood to these "weirdos"? And responding with hositility generates negative publicity by making them look like ungrateful schmucks?

If they're prepared and willing to accept the consequences, then I guess I don't care.

Typically they owe their livelihoods to their more sane fans and most people aren't going to care if a writer or artist or whoever laughs at some the behavior of some of their weirder fans.

Plaintiff wrote...
No, being a decent person means, among other things, that you shouldn't insult people unprovoked.

Stupidity can be its own provocation at times.

Manners are just a social construct, you can be "polite" and still be an awful human being. The two are not mutually exclusive. How you word your sentiment isn't even a fraction as important as what the sentiment actually is.

"I hate children and want to kill them all" will never be a nice thing to say, no matter how "politely" you express it.

Yet whether or not you insult sweat-analyzing fan #7326 is a matter of manners, not being a decent human being.

Also that sentiment can still be hilarious when in the right context.

[Plaintiff]

I can sympathize with that, Allan. The hostility generated by romance threads frustrates me also, even though I'm guilty of engaging in it.

[Bionuts]

I don't agree that a pc's life should rely on whether they're romanced or not.

Sounds weird to me.

[Br3admax]

Bionuts wrote...

I don't agree that a pc's life should rely on whether they're romanced or not.

Sounds weird to me.

I don't really think anyone thought that. That was just a proposal for a possible outcome. Anyway, wasn't Cortez like this? 

[zMataxa]

@Allan.

Any option at this early stage of game dev of having a romance subforum?
Seems like its' one of the greatest triggers for "fighting".
If yes, then a poll to gauge interest and reflect why it's being done.
It really does seem to hurt some people's "eyes & minds" to see another romance thread.
I don't mind hoping over to a subforum for romances.
Just a thought.

[zMataxa]

Bionuts wrote...

I don't agree that a pc's life should rely on whether they're romanced or not.

Sounds weird to me.

_____________________

THat's the way it works in reality.
It adds a whole new dimension - good and bad.

[Plaintiff]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...
Stupidity can be its own provocation at times.

I think what you meant to say was "people will invent provocations if they're looking for a fight".

Yet whether or not you insult sweat-analyzing fan #7326 is a matter of manners, not being a decent human being.

Not as far as I'm concerned. It is possible to insult someone in a 'polite' way. It's still not nice to do.

Also that sentiment can still be hilarious when in the right context.

If the sentiment is intended to be amusing, then it's not a genuine expression of the sentiment, but an expression of the opposite sentiment.

[Chanda]

zMataxa wrote...

@Allan.

Any option at this early stage of game dev of having a romance subforum?
Seems like its' one of the greatest triggers for "fighting".
If yes, then a poll to gauge interest and reflect why it's being done.
It really does seem to hurt some people's "eyes & minds" to see another romance thread.
I don't mind hoping over to a subforum for romances.
Just a thought.

I like this idea. That way people won't be like, "Oh god, not another romance thread!" because at least it would be in a place where it's actually expected for people to talk about it.

Modifié par Chanda, 04 octobre 2013 - 06:02 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

Chari wrote...

Romances with companions are one of the things that do make Bioware's games unique. No other wRPg company makes romances like them. I can tell for sure, based on players I know, that without romances lots of fans wouldn't give a flying damn about Bioware

Which is a sad statement.

I don't think that this is a fair statement.  If people can enjoy something because it offers content to them, then more power to them.  I think a lot of people like our games because they enjoy our stories.  Some like them because they like the combats, or they like the exploration of a new setting, or what have you.

Some people will have varying amounts of interest in each of these, and if someone is all "I love this game because of the characters and the romance arcs" then more power to them.  Hopefully they got value out of the game and ultimately enjoyed themselves.


I feel this is an appropriate place to link this comic:
http://www.viruscomix.com/page500.html

[Phate Phoenix]

Br3ad wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

I don't agree that a pc's life should rely on whether they're romanced or not.

Sounds weird to me.

I don't really think anyone thought that. That was just a proposal for a possible outcome. Anyway, wasn't Cortez like this? 

Nah, you just had to talk with him a lot and be his friend. Then he didn't die. Somehow.

ANYWHO

The whole reason I got into Bioware games was because I heard about Liara as a FemShep romance from ME1. My eyeballs about popped out of my head when I found that out, and immediately had to own the game. Dragon Age Orgins followed quickly. So I've always been fond of Bioware's romances, if only because they're what drew my attention first.

[Bionuts]

Br3ad wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

I don't agree that a pc's life should rely on whether they're romanced or not.

Sounds weird to me.

I don't really think anyone thought that. That was just a proposal for a possible outcome. Anyway, wasn't Cortez like this? 

If you were his friend or romance he didn't die. So stupid. Anyone that unstable should be getting working on themselves, no way they should be responsible for the lives of other people.

Doesn't matter. Much as I enjoy ME series the story is horrible (not even talking about the ending, don't care for it much).

ME2 is horrible. REALLY horrible. The suicide mission was stupid. All this talk about the power of friendship and the whole power fantasy involved is just:sick:

That some of the most powerful and intelligent beings in the galaxy die or live based on a blimp in their life is stupid.

My opinion