203 réponses à ce sujet

[Bionuts]

It would've been enough to simply have the Dalatrass present her reasoning, but she was made a loudmouthed idiot on purpose.

[DeinonSlayer]

Bionuts wrote...

It would've been enough to simply have the Dalatrass present her reasoning, but she was made a loudmouthed idiot on purpose.

One who is badmouthed behind her back by others, no less. Lest there be any illusions.

[Steelcan]

I think the issue shouldn't have been "cure every krogan" but just deliver a cure to Urdnot. Curing every krogan, especially non-Urdnot aligned clans, is stupid.

Doing so undermines Urdnot's powerbase and makes their hoarding of females pointless. Wrex has lost his main bargaining chip.

[David7204]

Gosh, I bet the females would just love that. Being a bargaining chip to see how many males can impregnate them? Particularly since Bakara explicitly says the clans are an invention of the males.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Gosh, I bet the females would just love that. Being a bargaining chip to see how many males can impregnate them? Particularly since Bakara explicitly says the clans are an invention of the males.

She says that the rivalries are an invention, not the clans

[David7204]

I'm pretty certain she says the clans.

[Bionuts]

The fate of the entire galaxy is at stake.

Individuals are irrelevant.

[Br3admax]

David7204 wrote...

Gosh, I bet the females would just love that. Being a bargaining chip to see how many males can impregnate them? Particularly since Bakara explicitly says the clans are an invention of the males.

It was their idea. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 05 octobre 2013 - 02:42 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I'm pretty certain she says the clans.

"Why would you go to Clan Weryloc, aren't they a rival clan?"

"Rivalries are an invention of the males, under their rule..."

Modifié par Steelcan, 05 octobre 2013 - 02:44 .

[David7204]

I guess not, then. In any case, the principle is the same.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I guess not, then. In any case, the principle is the same.

not really.

[David7204]

Really. I'm struggling to come up with a reason how holding the cure over the heads of some of the clans while giving it to their rival is going to make them help. Because it sounds to me like that would simply make them very pissed off. Starting off on the very, very wrong foot. And that's all even assuming it's as simple as Urdnot being acceptive of such practices. 

Modifié par David7204, 05 octobre 2013 - 02:50 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Really. I'm struggling to come up with a reason how holding the cure over the heads of some of the clans while giving it to their rival is going to make them help. Because it sounds to me like that would simply make them very pissed off. Starting off on the very, very wrong foot. And that's all even assuming it's as simple as Urdnot being acceptive of such practices. 

We see in ME2 that Urdnot's strength under Wrex is his ability to ally with female clans and get support that way rather than just shooting everything.  The clans that don't see the benefits to this long term planning oppose him because he is breaking with tradition and such.  They stick with killing each other to establish dominance.  Giving the cure to these already aggresive and hostile clans is just stupid.

[David7204]

Betraying an ally in such a desperate situation and sowing a ridiculous amount of resentment, contempt, and hostility is just stupid. Even if all that was true, it can be dealt with after the war. But it won't be dealt with, because it's obvious that the combined war and genophage cure is going to amount to a tremendous reconstruction of krogan society anyway.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Betraying an ally in such a desperate situation and sowing a ridiculous amount of resentment, contempt, and hostility is just stupid. Even if all that was true, it can be dealt with after the war. But it won't be dealt with, because it's obvious that the combined war and genophage cure is going to amount to a tremendous reconstruction of krogan society anyway.

You have the hope of that, but they always mention how the other clans may not fall in line, giving them a cure to the genophage is not a good idea.  It'd be like giving the cure to Wreav.

[KaiserShep]

Seems to me that if it comes down to just selectively administering the cure, you'd might as well just cure Eve and Wrex and have them be the sole source of a revitalized krogan, but then this depends entirely on whether or not Eve and Wrex would consider this an acceptable compromise. There's still the matter of stopping the reaper on Tuchanka though, since it is destroying their atmosphere.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 05 octobre 2013 - 03:00 .

[Br3admax]

Cure Mordin?

[David7204]

Then in all likelihood the Reapers will mow through them anyway. We already see them attacking Tuchanka.

[KaiserShep]

Br3ad wrote...

Cure Mordin?

Minor slip lol. Hoped to edit before anyone noticed.

[shodiswe]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

I don't know about you, but I made my decision about the genophage a long time before ME3. From the first time Wrex talks about it's pretty obvious how horrible it is. In many ways it's a bit like the whole reaper solution. An artificial control imposed on a natural process. Sure it may be more "efficient" and"'safer" but in the end it's inhumane. If you ask me, that's why most people choose it, not because of any other character's opinion.

This describes my reasoning fairly well. If the Krogans later causes trouble then others can stomp them down.

If they start trying to conquer the galaxy you jsut need to convince the Geth they are planning to invade Geth Space and the Geth will go in and cull them down to a few milion til they arn't a threat any mroe, then the Krogan experiment can start a new.... Lets see how many chances the Krogans needs to find their footing.

Wrex thought the Rachni was a threat to the galaxy whose agressive actions showed they needed to be rendered extinct. Ofcourse noone seems themselves as a threat, lets see how the Krogans do after they got a second chance.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me thrice, won't happen.

Tbh, if people are so worried about overpopulation then that's what's already happening to Earth.

The population is growing, artificial fertizing and guano taken from Birdcolonies where they kill the birds to take their land that they built up out in the sea over millions of years with bird droppings. But their rich soil is a limited resource which will run out in a few years.
When that happens and most of these birds have lost their nesting islands, human agricultural output will be cut down to one third or less. While were told we need to increase production by 45% over the next 20-30 years.

It's getting harder and harder to find fish in the sea and people are beginning to consider eating and catching fish that they used to discard.

Sometimes I think the Krogan design and their history was based on humans and the future we face. the Same thing happend to Thanes people, but the Hanar saved a few of them in exchange for them agreeing to assimilate into their population as a workforce.

Modifié par shodiswe, 05 octobre 2013 - 05:51 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It didn't matter anyway. What mattered was that number called WAR ASSETS. Which way got you the most. Who cares if the Krogan go on a rampage after the war? They're not talking sequel anyway.

It's like the Dark Energy ending with the Starbrat. Do you sacrifice Humanity or do you destroy the reapers and take your chances? It's the last game. Who cares? Destroy the bastards!

That's the problem with stories like this.

[AlanC9]

Snark aside, it's a fair point. Whatever the krogan do can't be as bad as a Reaper win, so Shepard should play for maximum WAs since he doesn't know how many he'll need.

[RatThing]

David7204 wrote...

Is 'bias' somehow a problem?

The narrative has every right to present one option as better.

If it's not a problem for you then it's your business. For me it's a tremendous problem. Bias, as presented here is a method of children's books, cheap dime novel and movie dramas and one sided media like Fox News. A good story asks a question and challenges the intelligence of the audience, it doesn't give an easy answer and limits it.
Plus so many times it's being said that it's all about your story and your choises. Well then the choises and thus the motivation behind those should be respected. Then the choises should be presented balanced.

[Kataphrut94]

If it were truly biased, then they wouldn't give you the choice at all.

Again, I don't see the point of trying to determine bias from the author when the player is the one who ultimately drives the story. If you believe, based on the information presented in the story (which is in there or we wouldn't be discussing it) that the genophage should not be cured, then go for your life. Don't get your knickers in a knot about Wrex giving you a 'hey thanks for not neutering me' handshake, that's just a bone for people who want to take the other option. At best, you get to feel like you're breaking the rules and going behind the writer's back, which is always cool. It even gets cutely acknowledged later on when Garrus congratulates you on being able to play both sides to your benefit.

[RatThing]

Of course they had to give you a choise, choises are a main theme of the series. But the choise here is nothing but an alibi.
The point is
a) I don't like being taken for a fool who can't think for himself. That's exactly what the story is doing here. I'm not even a pro phager, but this pisses me off.
Limitation of roleplaying. So I'm playing a Shepard who agrees with the phage. What does this Shepard do?
First, he would hope to get Krogan support without curing the phage. So he tries to talk Wrex/Wreav out of it during the meeitng, saying there's no time for it or something like that. He does not antagonize the Dalatrass because he shares her concerns. Does this option exist? Nope.
Second, he tries himself to find a way out of this. Maybe he talks with Mordin, tries to find out if he'd be up to sabotage the cure. Maybe he himself offers a deal to the Dalatrass. Does this option exist? Nope.
Third, when it looks like there is no way out of this at least he'd have something pessimistic / negative to say about this to the Krogans. He could confront Wrex/Wreav, telling them they brought the phage on themselves and saying they better not waste their second chance. He could express doubts about Wrex keeping the Krogans in line. Does this option exist? Nope. Meanwhile you had plenty of chances to disagree with the genophage.
And there's still the issue that you have to kill 2 former squadmates yourself. I understand Wrex, but why Mordin? While this scene was powerful and well done it should be the other way around (kill Mordin if you don't sabotage).
So I don't see at all how the player drives the story here. He gets alibi choises, nothing else.

Modifié par RatThing, 05 octobre 2013 - 10:23 .